OT: Two Incredible collapses in one night

[vintagecpa]

People really aren't talking about the Braves because most Braves fans just figure last night saves them another first-round playoff loss. Unfortunately, Braves fans have accepted these type of losing performances. The Red Sox have raised the bar after a couple WS wins the past decade. But even before that, Red Sox fans in general are simply more emotionally tied to their team.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by mr2686

What a great day of baseball! You have to hand it to the Rays and the Cards for hanging in and playing their best baseball down the stretch. You also have to tip your cap to the Orioles, Yankees and Phillies for playing hard when they had nothing to gain. Also, the Rays would have to be down right stupid to ever get rid of Longoria...he came to play!

The Yankees didn't play hard. If they put their best pitchers in and kept a decent lineup out there they would certainly have won.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by vintagechris

What is really funny to me, it seems like most people are only talking about the Red Sox and not the Braves.

I think the expectations of the Red Sox where much higher than the those of the Braves. Higher payroll, bigger market, more fans. If you asked at the beginning of September "Which team will be in the playoffs - the Red Sox or the Braves?" most would pick the Sox.

[sayhey24]

The Tigers will be very tough for two reasons -- Verlander and Valverde -- they are both pretty amazing.

I actually think the Orioles are a fun team playing in a great stadium -- it would be good for baseball if they could find a way to have a resurgence.

Greg

[mr2686]

The Yankees didn't play hard. If they put their best pitchers in and kept a decent lineup out there they would certainly have won.

They played as hard as they should have, let's put it that way. What did you want from them?...they had a 7 run lead going in to the bottom of the 8th. They used 11 pitchers and their starting players had at least 3 - 4 at bats.
I guess they could have had A-Rod come out and hurt his ailing knee so that he'd be out for the playoffs or use Rivera for a couple of innings so that he couldn't be used on Friday.

[carrigansghost]

get rid of Angelos, show up to the park and clean up the city. Baltimore?? Seriously?? At least they talk about the Red Sox and I,ve lived through my share of letdowns. 'Tis better to have loved and lost than to have never had a chance. These O's fans were the guys that went to prom alone and sat with each other wondering were the girl were, while some of us were dancing with them and ended up taking one out later. Enjoy your empty bleachers.

Yes I did cheer for the Yanks last night.

Rawn

[oldjudge]

The Tigers have the best starting pitching in the AL playoffs. Besides Verlander they have the best pitcher over the last month and a half in baseball. In Doug Fister's last eight starts he has given up one run four times and no runs four times for an ERA over this period of 0.65.

[packs]

I really wish the Yankees were playing Texas. Detroit is going to be tough in a 5 games series, especially if they are able to throw Verlander twice.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by mr2686

They played as hard as they should have, let's put it that way. What did you want from them?...they had a 7 run lead going in to the bottom of the 8th. They used 11 pitchers and their starting players had at least 3 - 4 at bats.
I guess they could have had A-Rod come out and hurt his ailing knee so that he'd be out for the playoffs or use Rivera for a couple of innings so that he couldn't be used on Friday.

They played harder than they should have. It was a meaningless game. I think you thought I said that they didn't play hard as if it was a bad thing. I don't think the players take the rivalry as serious as the fans do, but I can assure you they don't like the Red Sox and losing a seven run lead in the Rays/Red Sox most important game of the season sounds like good payback for 2004.

[matthew]

I really thought the Phillies might try to let the Braves have the wild card. Who would you rather face, Cards or D-Backs? Arizona is good, but StL is on a roll.

As long as the NL wins the Series, it is all good.

P.S. Who else got tired of the Sox-Rays fight for the wild card dominating the airwaves? It seemed at times that the Cards-Braves were an afterthought. I waited through the 1st 15 minutes of the MLB Network show the other night before any mention of the NL race. Then I got 11 minutes on the NL. I timed it.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Brendan

The Yankees didn't play hard. If they put their best pitchers in and kept a decent lineup out there they would certainly have won.

Keep in mind that when the Yankees played the Sox last week in that extra inning game they kept ARod, Jeter, etc. on the bench the entire game -- even in a pinch hitting capacity.

[hunterdutchess]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The Tigers have the best starting pitching in the AL playoffs. Besides Verlander they have the best pitcher over the last month and a half in baseball. In Doug Fister's last eight starts he has given up one run four times and no runs four times for an ERA over this period of 0.65.

+1
& best hitter, catcher, and closer in the A.L.
-Tigers in 4 (I hope)

[calvindog]

The idea that the Yankees are the favorites in the AL is a joke -- their pitching sucks. After CC -- who hasn't pitched well of late -- they've got Nova and Garcia. I'll take either Detroit or Texas over them.

[yanks12025]

Lets see why the Yankees are the favorite, cause they have the best record in the American League. And Nova and Garcia have put up good numbers this year. So because their not big name pitchers like C.C or Justin doesn't mean the Yankees can't win and they will win. And Verlander didnt have great numbers vs the Yankees this year.

And I dont know what your on, but the Tigers closer is not better than Mariano Rivera hands down. Just because Jose had acouple more K's and saves this year, while Mo had under a 2.00 ERA.

I can't believe I'm the only Yankee fan here who actually believes in his team.

[hunterdutchess]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Lets see why the Yankees are the favorite, cause they have the best record in the American League. And Nova and Garcia have put up good numbers this year. So because their not big name pitchers like C.C or Justin doesn't mean the Yankees can't win and they will win. And Verlander didnt have great numbers vs the Yankees this year.

And I dont know what your on, but the Tigers closer is not better than Mariano Rivera hands down. Just because Jose had acouple more K's and saves this year, while Mo had under a 2.00 ERA.

I can't believe I'm the only Yankee fan here who actually believes in his team.

I don't know about you but I would take 49 for 49 over a sub 2.00 era and 5 blown saves.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Keep in mind that when the Yankees played the Sox last week in that extra inning game they kept ARod, Jeter, etc. on the bench the entire game -- even in a pinch hitting capacity.

Your point?

Originally Posted by calvindog

The idea that the Yankees are the favorites in the AL is a joke -- their pitching sucks. After CC -- who hasn't pitched well of late -- they've got Nova and Garcia. I'll take either Detroit or Texas over them.

Nova and Garcia? They may not throw 97 mph but they've been winning games. Look at the Yankees pitching. Actually look at the numbers. Their starting pitching is top of the line. Every year, people want the Yankees to get some pitcher who is 12-12 with a 4.01 ERA (like that matters) to replace the stiff they have with a 16-7 record and a 3.67 ERA.

How about relief pitching? Dave Robertson. He's easily the best 8th inning guy in baseball and this is not a biased opinion. Then we have Mariano Rivera. Doesn't dominate his position like Dave Robertson has this year, but he's still top of the line.

I do find the moneyline odds at +180 (game 1) for Detroit are very high and I have taken advantage of that. Detroit may win (afterall anything can happen in these short series) but it won't be because of a lack of pitching from the Yankees.

[yanks12025]

Rivera, has given up less hits, less walks, lower batting average, less homeruns, less loses, less runs allowed. So I'd still take Rivera over the show up Valverde. Also cause of Rivera's post season stats.

[btcarfagno]

Below is an excerpt from an article by one Eric Ortiz in January of 2011 from the NESN website:

"The Red Sox were slated to win about 95 games last year. They won 89 despite injuries to Pedroia (a former MVP) and Youkilis (a possible future MVP). Add them back, along with the new players and a healthy Ellsbury, and 100 wins doesn’t just appear plausible. It seems downright inevitable.

So does a date with history.

The 2001 Mariners won 116 regular-season games to set the American League record for most wins in a single season and tie the 1906 Cubs for the major league record (though the North Siders accomplished the feat in 152 games). Both those teams failed to win the World Series. The Cubs lost to the White Sox in six games in the Fall Classic. The Mariners didn’t even make it that far, falling to the Yankees in five games in the ALCS.

The Red Sox have no intention of suffering a similar fate. The way they are constructed, they could surpass the 116-win mark, but nothing less than a World Series title will make Boston happy.

The 2011 Red Sox possess all the pieces to have a season for the ages. If everything falls into place and the breaks go their way, they could do more than set records and become champions. They could do more than take their place on Immortality Peak and end up being mentioned in the same sentence as legendary clubs of the past: the 1929 A’s, the epic Yankees teams of the ‘30s, the 1970 Orioles, the 1976 Reds.

The 2011 Red Sox could accomplish a feat that has never been done. They could unseat the 1927 Yankees as the greatest major league team of all time.

That would be something to celebrate."






BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Tom C

[calvindog]

[QUOTE=Brendan;928437]Your point?

The point is that to suggest that the Red Sox were screwed by the Yankees' failure to put their best pitchers in against the Rays ignores the Yankees' failure to do the same against the Sox a few days early. It evened out.

And to suggest that Nova and Garcia are a solid 2 and 3 really is stretching things. Nova is a rookie and Garcia has had one quality start in September. Yes, the Yanks are fantastic after the 7th inning. I think Game 1 is pretty crucial for both teams tonight.

[scooter729]

I am a Red Sox fan, but that NESN article is pathetic. After having just watched a season full of games on NESN, I (and many others) are tired of the crap they spout on NESN, which is owned by the Red Sox.

The propaganda, the lack of criticism of the team, the constant marketing ("Sure, the Red Sox are in the late innings of a big game in September, but enough about that - who wants to buy a Fenway Park brick or have Wally the Green Monster at your child's party?!?") - enough is enough.

It almost (and I say almost) made me happy to get a break from NESN when there would be a Saturday FOX game done by Buck and McCarver.

[sportscardpete]

With the Yankees offense all you need is a consistent pitcher that will give u 6+ innings of decent work. I'm OKAY with Garcia. Now with Nova, he can be electric but he has had some clunkers. I'm a little worried about that.


Anyone want to talk about Fister? The guy has been fire with the tigers. Him and Verlander make a nice 1-2 punch.


Agree with the above post, game 1 will be critical.

[oldjudge]

The Yankees have one of the best bullpens in baseball (fingers crossed when Soriano comes in) but jeff is right. Their starting pitching is really questionable, even Sabathia. In Sabathia's last ten starts he has a 4.06 ERA and a 1.50 WHIP. Combine this with the fact that Sabathia has typically pitched worse during the playoffs than during the regular season and this hardly paints a picture of a lock down starter.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The Yankees have one of the best bullpens in baseball (fingers crossed when Soriano comes in) but jeff is right. Their starting pitching is really questionable, even Sabathia. In Sabathia's last ten starts he has a 4.06 ERA and a 1.50 WHIP. Combine this with the fact that Sabathia has typically pitched worse during the playoffs than during the regular season and this hardly paints a picture of a lock down starter.

Exactly. And agreed about Nova above. People are talking about him as if he's Andy Pettite. A couple months ago he was AJ Burnett.

[bosoxfan]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

Three exciting finishes last night, but the results of all three definitely bummed me out. I never realized the left field fence at Tropicana was two feet high and 196 feet down the line. I thought Longoria had gotten jammed - and then - bam - game's over. You could realistically re-enact Sandy Amoros' famous catch in the 1955 World Series with a midget at Tropicana Field. The foul poll should be sponsored by "Tonka."

I also hope the Tropicana "catwalks" don't come into play during the playoffs. What an absurd place to play baseball.

http://mlb.mlb.com/tb/ballpark/infor...t=ground_rules

Rumor has it that in 2007 the Rays organization lowered the Trop's left field wall so that carl crawford could have the opportunity to steal home runs.

[barrysloate]

If the Yankees are going to go deep in the playoffs they will have to do so with their hitting and relief pitching. Robertson and Rivera are absolutely superb, and they have three players who will likely be in the top ten in MVP voting: Granderson, Texeira, and Cano. If their starters are merely adequate that's about the best they can hope for.

[Phil Arem]

Thanks for taking some heat off my 2007/2008 Mets!!

Phil

[yanks12025]

Fister in his last 10 starts has only played one team that was in the playoff hunt. Besides Verlander, the other three all have ERA's above 4.40. The Yankees have a better bullpen like stated, better lineup.

So what are the matchup's, Verlander vs CC. Nova vs Fister and Garcia vs Max?? I would take Nova and Freddy over those two any day of the week. Verlander did just lose to the O's by the way.

[sportscardpete]

Even as a Yankee fan, I can admit Fister is dead even in a pure pitching matchup with Nova. Nova is too darn inconsistent. Like I said before, he can look electric or look awful. Fister has been nothing but consistant, even if he played crummy teams. Speaking of crummy teams, Nova recently gave up 7 runs to the Royals.


Fister went 7 innings and gave up 3 runs last time he played the Yankees (lost), but that was before his trade to Detroit.

[Kzoo]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

So what are the matchup's, Verlander vs CC. Nova vs Fister and Garcia vs Max?? I would take Nova and Freddy over those two any day of the week. Verlander did just lose to the O's by the way.

The Tigers are going to tear up CC and Garcia, hopefully Joe falls asleep in the dugout and doesn't pull them. Detroit used to destroy a slimmer version of CC when he was with Cleveland (now he's fat and older) and Garcia is a washed up BP pitcher, imo. If Verlander can get settled down after a couple innings tonight, there will be no worries from all the Tiger fans in Michigan!!

[Brendan]

[QUOTE=calvindog;928477]

Originally Posted by Brendan

Your point?

The point is that to suggest that the Red Sox were screwed by the Yankees' failure to put their best pitchers in against the Rays ignores the Yankees' failure to do the same against the Sox a few days early. It evened out.

And to suggest that Nova and Garcia are a solid 2 and 3 really is stretching things. Nova is a rookie and Garcia has had one quality start in September. Yes, the Yanks are fantastic after the 7th inning. I think Game 1 is pretty crucial for both teams tonight.

I agree with you on it evening out. But, I can't agree with you on Nova, (16-4....I don't even see an argument other than the fact that he's a near-rookie) though considering Garcia has been slightly shaky as of late I might still consider him solid but certainly not a plus. In these short series every game is important and with Verlander going I'm not looking forward to tonight.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by Kzoo

The Tigers are going to tear up CC and Garcia, hopefully Joe falls asleep in the dugout and doesn't pull them. Detroit used to destroy a slimmer version of CC when he was with Cleveland (now he's fat and older) and Garcia is a washed up BP pitcher, imo. If Verlander can get settled down after a couple innings tonight, there will be no worries from all the Tiger fans in Michigan!!

Here's an arrogant fan that's stuck up. I dont think a washed up BP pitcher puts up 12-8 with a 3.62 ERA. Thats better than your other three starters. We'll see next week when the Yankees beat you guys with no problem, the Yankees didnt have the most wins for no reason. Cause we can beat any team including the Tigers.

[tbob]

The networks have to be pulling for a Yankee-Phils world series. If it is Tampa Bay or Detroit-Arizona or Milwaukee there will be major gnashing of teeth. People are sleeping on Detroit and Milwaukee but both clubs are built for short series' so I won't be surprised if they get in the Series.

[Brendan]

double post

[Brendan]

[QUOTE=calvindog;928477]

Originally Posted by Brendan

Your point?

The point is that to suggest that the Red Sox were screwed by the Yankees' failure to put their best pitchers in against the Rays ignores the Yankees' failure to do the same against the Sox a few days early. It evened out.

And to suggest that Nova and Garcia are a solid 2 and 3 really is stretching things. Nova is a rookie and Garcia has had one quality start in September. Yes, the Yanks are fantastic after the 7th inning. I think Game 1 is pretty crucial for both teams tonight.

I agree with you on it evening out. But, I can't agree with you on Nova, (16-4 and if you want to play this ERA BS his ERA is a solid 3.70....I don't even see an argument other than the fact that he's a near-rookie) though considering Garcia has been slightly shaky as of late I might still consider him solid but certainly not a plus. In these short series every game is important and with Verlander going I'm not looking forward to tonight.

[Kzoo]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Here's an arrogant fan that's stuck up. I dont think a washed up BP pitcher puts up 12-8 with a 3.62 ERA. Thats better than your other three starters. We'll see next week when the Yankees beat you guys with no problem, the Yankees didnt have the most wins for no reason. Cause we can beat any team including the Tigers.

LOL!! Dude, chill out. Just having some fun. Why am I and the rest of the country not surprised a Yankee fan wrote that? By the way, the Tigers won 4 of 7 over NY this season. Look it up.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

So many question for Red Sox management:

1. Do we dump Tido and hire Bobby Valentine
2. Was that JD Drew's last game as a BoSox
3. Was that Papelbon's last game as a BoSox
4. Why did we sign Carl Crawford to 7 years at that salary
5. Is Theo gone
6. Do we sign Jose Reyes
7. WHAT HAPPENED

1 thru 6 - YES!

7 - I think BABE RUTH can answer this Best

I just simply Love the Game... However, being from the land of Shea, when the Met's did it, it seemed like a Double Whammy!

[yanks12025]

Funny I knew about that stat already. But that was in the beginning of the season.

[yanks12025]

WOW. Fister looked great last night. Pretty sure nova out dueled him.

[vintagechris]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Here's an arrogant fan that's stuck up. I dont think a washed up BP pitcher puts up 12-8 with a 3.62 ERA. Thats better than your other three starters. We'll see next week when the Yankees beat you guys with no problem, the Yankees didnt have the most wins for no reason. Cause we can beat any team including the Tigers.

hmmm, I guess it isn't going to be quite as easy as you thought.

[yanks12025]

We'll besides C.C being squeezed by the ump alot more than Verlander, it was a good game. But with that said I still believe in my team cause im a true fan and know we'll come back. Because we're the better team and it will show.
It's Not over till it's over.

[jcmtiger]

Go Tigers, we got rid of that fat guy with a head smaller than his body.


Joe

[oldjudge]

Joe-The Tigers traded Valverde?

[jcmtiger]

Yanks12025 the Fat Boy CC with the Small head failed, he let the little hitters kick his butt. Verlander was great and you know it. I will be at the close out game tomorrow. Yanks go Home!!!!!

Joe

[Joe_G.]

I wouldn't talk smack on either side, this series is far from over.

I thought Verlander was his typical self most of the game. I particularly liked the top of the 5th when JV struck out the side on 10 pitches. He didn't retain his focus the whole game however and the Yankees came close to making him pay like few teams can.

I believe Valverde is trying to give every Detroit fan a heart attack, enough already!

Good game, all things considered, I think Detroit did out pitch and hit the Yankees today.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Yanks12025 the Fat Boy CC with the Small head failed, he let the little hitters kick his butt. Verlander was great and you know it. I will be at the close out game tomorrow. Yanks go Home!!!!!

Joe

Joe,
Continue being cocky just like your horrible closer in Jose. And you're right the Yankees will be going home but for Game 5 and the clincher.

[calvindog]

The series is going pretty much as I expected and wrote above. CC has not been great as of the end of the year and the Yankees' pitching is very inconsistent -- and pitching wins in the playoffs. To have their season dependent upon that POS Burnett really says it all.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Joe,
Continue being cocky just like your horrible closer in Jose. And you're right the Yankees will be going home but for Game 5 and the clincher.

I think if you go back and read your posts, you will see you are the "Cocky" one.

We'll see, anything can happen, but Tigers are in the drivers seat right now.

Joe

[vintagechris]

IMO, the series ends to night, and yes Brock has been the cocky one, but it's all in good fun.

[yanks12025]

How am I being the cocky one? I'm defending my team, while so called Yankee fans here give no support to their team and don't believe at all. I said before game one, that the Yankees would beat Fister while Joe said he'd kill the Yankees. And I was right, Fister flaked out after acouple innings.

You guys rag on C.C, but no one mentions how good he looked in the start of game 1 before it was called. No one mentions the fact that the ump last night gave C.C. nothing, while gave Verlander alot more calls. And the people on TBS even made mention of it.

A.J did beat the Tigers earlier in the year, but the Yankees bats will come to life tonight. If Jeter didnt choke last night or the day before we could have won.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Yanks12025 the Fat Boy CC with the Small head failed, he let the little hitters kick his butt. Verlander was great and you know it. I will be at the close out game tomorrow. Yanks go Home!!!!!

Joe

Joe,
Nice clinching game huh. I hope you had fun. I told you we were going home for Game 5.