Another fake 52T Mantle on ebay

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well I agree with you there, they are all fake. But I don't feel badly about alerting people and trying to do my part to stop it.

I have no problem with you doing that..i just see other posters talking about seriously looking to buy cards and talking about putting funds in escrow..it looks like they are putting in real time searching ebay listings... its like lookin for for a real t206 wagner that a guy says found in a house he just bought....it really a waste of time...the 1952 mantle is in that league now....you wont have to warn anyone if people treated the mantle like the t206 wagner...you aren't warning people about buying 'real' t206 wagners....no need too...and shouldn't need to warn about the mantle anymore is what I am saying....but you can do what you want...

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I have no problem with you doing that..i just see other posters talking about seriously looking to buy cards and talking about putting funds in escrow..it looks like they are putting in real time searching ebay listings... its like lookin for for a real t206 wagner that a guy says found in a house he just bought....it really a waste of time...the 1952 mantle is in that league now....you wont have to warn anyone if people treated the mantle like the t206 wagner...you aren't warning people about buying 'real' t206 wagners....no need too...and shouldn't need to warn about the mantle anymore is what I am saying....but you can do what you want...

If you're talking about me I wasted about 5 minutes contacting the ebay seller. I've wasted more time reading this thread. I only suggested putting the money in an escrow account to see what he would say. Had he agreed I would have talked to him on the phone, asked for more scans, done whatever I could to verify he had the card before paying any escrow fees. I'm not an idiot.

Didn't you say you bought a 52 Mantle off craigslist? There may have been a 1 in a million shot this ebay seller actually had this card, or less. But it didn't hurt anything to find out for sure. Just like it was along shot someone was actually selling a 52 Mantle on craigslist.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

If you're talking about me I wasted about 5 minutes contacting the ebay seller. I've wasted more time reading this thread. I only suggested putting the money in an escrow account to see what he would say. Had he agreed I would have talked to him on the phone, asked for more scans, done whatever I could to verify he had the card before paying any escrow fees. I'm not an idiot.

Didn't you say you bought a 52 Mantle off craigslist? There may have been a 1 in a million shot this ebay seller actually had this card, or less. But it didn't hurt anything to find out for sure. Just like it was along shot someone was actually selling a 52 Mantle on craigslist.

I bought that mantle years ago ..like my post says..times have changed for the mantle....you constantly contact private sellers with no feedback and go into negotiations on several mantles..not just this one in this thread..you have spent much more time in the past few weeks going after fake mantles than reading this thread.....plus the fact you would even contemplate into entering in phone negotiations , wait for verification and put the card/funds in escrow etc sounds like a heck of a lot of time for a fake mantle.....you can do what you want ..I just think its a waste of time now and getting updates on how the mantle is fake with a guy with 5 feedback with past sales of a $5.55 cent blowdryer or whatever is more of a waste of time....and now in the category of buying a T206 PSA Wagner from private seller with no reputation..i don't think people would bother with negotiating the price on the wagner and deal with escrow and verification because they know its fake...but to each their own..i just know I no longer will even to bother clicking the listings for 1952 mantles ...if I want one ill get one from a real seller or at an auction.....

[pokerplyr80]

I watch ebay and auction sites for mantles but unfortunately passed on a few in recent months and the prices have gotten out of my range. I have contacted 3 or 4 sellers in the last year from eBay who I now believe had fake mantles or fake pictures of real ones. It certainly is not constantly and never takes much time because these frauds are just looking for someone who will send them money without asking many questions. I mentioned I would talk to someone on the phone and ask for more scans because this also wouldn't take much time and a scammer would be less likely to take those steps. I would take the same precautions with a seller I believe had a real card I was spending thousands or 10s of thousands of dollars on.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I bought that mantle years ago ..like my post says..times have changed for the mantle....you constantly contact private sellers with no feedback and go into negotiations on several mantles..not just this one in this thread..you have spent much more time in the past few weeks going after fake mantles than reading this thread.....plus the fact you would even contemplate into entering in phone negotiations , wait for verification and put the card/funds in escrow etc sounds like a heck of a lot of time for a fake mantle.....you can do what you want ..I just think its a waste of time now and getting updates on how the mantle is fake with a guy with 5 feedback with past sales of a $5.55 cent blowdryer or whatever is more of a waste of time....and now in the category of buying a T206 PSA Wagner from private seller with no reputation..i don't think people would bother with negotiating the price on the wagner and deal with escrow and verification because they know its fake...but to each their own..i just know I no longer will even to bother clicking the listings for 1952 mantles ...if I want one ill get one from a real seller or at an auction.....

I am one collector who appreciates those who point out fakes and the reasons the cards are/look off. Not that I am in the market for a 52 Mantle but I do appreciate the education. I am sure there are others. Like the campaign says "If you see something, say something."

[BulletBob]

Originally Posted by biohazard

I am one collector who appreciates those who point out fakes and the reasons the cards are/look off. Not that I am in the market for a 52 Mantle but I do appreciate the education. I am sure there are others. Like the campaign says "If you see something, say something."

I would just like to point out how much I agree with this post. I've been a member for a few months and have only been a "lurker" until now, but the education has been amazing. I am by no means in the market for the more expensive cards but I do feel smarter knowing what to look for in a fake. For those who are new to vintage cards, the posts pointing out the various fake cards on ebay are amazingly helpful.

[Stampsfan]

+1

As a relative newbie to this Forum (but not the Sports Collectibles hobby), I sincerely appreciate any knowledge on these cards that people are willing to share. I also find it interesting how people do interact with these scammers, and what the reactions are. I don't know everything about everything, and I like to learn from everyone's experiences.

What I do find tiring about this site is the back and forth between members who seem to worry about how another member spends his time. For example, more than half of this thread is useless banter, less that half is valuable information. I am on this site (wasting my time? ) to get valuable information, not to read about someone telling someone else they are an idiot for spending time doing something. Quit trying to convince everyone how smart you are.

Please keep up the valuable posts, and anyone, please feel free to point out a fake or scam on eBay. There are many of us who truly want to know the information regarding the hobby they enjoy.

[rjackson44]

Bob well said but the card is a fake and hes a scam artist ,its a crime welcome to the board octavio

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I have no problem with you doing that..i just see other posters talking about seriously looking to buy cards and talking about putting funds in escrow..it looks like they are putting in real time searching ebay listings... its like lookin for for a real t206 wagner that a guy says found in a house he just bought....it really a waste of time...the 1952 mantle is in that league now....you wont have to warn anyone if people treated the mantle like the t206 wagner...you aren't warning people about buying 'real' t206 wagners....no need too...and shouldn't need to warn about the mantle anymore is what I am saying....but you can do what you want...

Obviously, there is an issue with scammers trying to sell fake 52T Mantles on eBay, just as there is with any iconic, high dollar card.

But the reason people don't view a 52T Mantle the same way they view a T206 Wagner is because it simply isn't. T206resource.com doesn't show even one real T206 Wagner as ever having sold on eBay; Real 52T Mantles still sell many times over on eBay.

A destroyed, beater of a trimmed Wagner T206 is still a quarter of a million dollar card. The 52T Mantle has been on a sharp rise of late, but it is nowhere near that kind of value.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Obviously, there is an issue with scammers trying to sell fake 52T Mantles on eBay, just as there is with any iconic, high dollar card.

But the reason people don't view a 52T Mantle the same way they view a T206 Wagner is because it simply isn't. T206resource.com doesn't show even one real T206 Wagner as ever having sold on eBay; Real 52T Mantles still sell many times over on eBay.

A destroyed, beater of a trimmed Wagner T206 is still a quarter of a million dollar card. The 52T Mantle has been on a sharp rise of late, but it is nowhere near that kind of value.

psa 6 mantles from private sellers with no real history and have no business accountability don't sell anymore on ebay as well or psa 5s or 4s..... there are wagners for sale on ebay though that the seller doesn't flat out say they are 'fake'......like I said..in the past maybe you could find a deal or two..but now they are all fake...yeah they are not 250k cards..but you can have fake cards that are 30k just as easily as one that is 250k...... please point out the next legit mantle that sells from a guy with feedback of less than 50 that nobody has ever heard of than sells a mantle for 20k+ ...maybe he found the card in the garage or he or she is selling their granfathers collection or they recently renovated a house and found them in the walls so they are all real...anyway im guessing it never happens

..once it does than I wont believe they are all fakes....basically id like to see people pointing out real ones now and not fake ones since they are fake....threads on real ones would be ok by me..but like I said anyone can do what they want...I just not clicking on anymore of those sketchy mantle listings.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

psa 6 mantles from private sellers with no real history and have no business accountability don't sell anymore on ebay as well or psa 5s or 4s..... there are wagners for sale on ebay though that the seller doesn't flat out say they are 'fake'......like I said..in the past maybe you could find a deal or two..but now they are all fake...yeah they are not 250k cards..but you can have fake cards that are 30k just as easily as one that is 250k...... please point out the next legit mantle that sells from a guy with feedback of less than 50 that nobody has ever heard of than sells a mantle for 20k+ ...maybe he found the card in the garage or he or she is selling their granfathers collection or they recently renovated a house and found them in the walls so they are all real...anyway im guessing it never happens

..once it does than I wont believe they are all fakes....basically id like to see people pointing out real ones now and not fake ones since they are fake....threads on real ones would be ok by me..but like I said anyone can do what they want...I just not clicking on anymore of those sketchy mantle listings.

You are changing the metrics from your previous statement that the 52T Mantle is in the same category as T206 Wagners. History has shown that there has never been a real Wagner sold on eBay -- by anyone. Now, you are adding the qualifier that you were only talking about 52T Mantles priced at $20,000+ and offered by sellers with a feedback below 50.

You can make the exact same point that anyone buying a $20,000+ card from a low feedback seller on eBay is a fool, not just when the card being offered is a 52T Mantle.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

You are changing the metrics from your previous statement that the 52T Mantle is in the same category as T206 Wagners. History has shown that there has never been a real Wagner sold on eBay -- by anyone. Now, you are adding the qualifier that you were only talking about 52T Mantles priced at $20,000+ and offered by sellers with a feedback below 50.

You can make the exact same point that anyone buying a $20,000+ card from a low feedback seller on eBay is a fool, not just when the card being offered is a 52T Mantle.

giving a general range......but its not just about the price....its clear there are fake holders with the mantle now...the fake holder issue is far more frequent in the mantle that some other cards in the $20,000-$60,000 price range..so again its not just about price..I said things have changed....there are fakes for less than that range now as well even in the $10,000 range...51B Mantles as well

its really going to have to be the auction route now ..

here is t206 wagner...... no one has to start a thread about it being fake......now with the mantle in that price range you no longer have too as well..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honus-Wagner...4AAOSwT5tWMO-9


maybe should of done a direct deal on this mantle and put funds in escrow waiting to see if card was real...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-TOPPS-3...IAAOSwuTxWALz0

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

giving a general range......but its not just about the price....its clear there are fake holders with the mantle now...the fake holder issue is far more frequent in the mantle that some other cards in the $20,000-$60,000 price range..so again its not just about price..I said things have changed....there are fakes for less than that range now as well even in the $10,000 range...51B Mantles as well

its really going to have to be the auction route now ..

here is t206 wagner...... no one has to start a thread about it being fake......now with the mantle in that price range you no longer have too as well..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honus-Wagner...4AAOSwT5tWMO-9


maybe should of done a direct deal on this mantle and put funds in escrow waiting to see if card was real...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-TOPPS-3...IAAOSwuTxWALz0

That Mantle is real. It's currently listed for 32k OBO by the seller who actually has it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

That Mantle is real. It's currently listed for 32k OBO by the seller who actually has it.

looks like the fake seller got $13,500 on the card and someone gave a negative feedback saying you will never get the card...... I guess no red flag for a centered psa 4 for $13,500.......the buyer of that fake mantle should of put money in escrow and talked to the seller...or better yet not even click the listing..

[Joe_G.]

Maybe already covered elsewhere, but I just noticed Goodwin & Co. pulled PSA8 Mantle from current auction due to authenticity concerns. This caught me by surprise and remembered this thread.

Here is link to pulled auction lot: http://goodwinandco.com/Remarkable_1...-LOT31556.aspx

[ullmandds]

wow! That's big.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Did anyone save a scan?

[steve_a]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Did anyone save a scan?

If not I imagine catalogues are already in the mail for our armchair forensic analysis.

[steve_a]

Here you go-