SGC vs PSA

[steve B]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

You call them "mistakes", I call it TPG corruption, preferential treatment, or printing money for their best customers/friends. I have never submitted a card with a crease and had it come back a 4 and I suspect I never will.

I have. This card has a light crease down the center. Either from removal from a page, or from when I removed it from the mylar sleeve that was stuck to the toploader.

Ok, it didn't get a 4. So I'm not exactly right.

Aside from the light crease the card is nice. Maybe a 60? Maybe a bit better?
When I sent it off I was hoping for a 35, expecting a 30.

And my prominence as a customer of SGC is solidly in the "Steve who? " category. I send in roughly 10 cards a year on average.

Steve B

[slipk1068]

Glad to hear it. Perhaps, I am too cynical.

[Republicaninmass]

Since we are clearly only renting these collectible for our short period of time on this planet, my only concern is that when it comes time to sell, what will give me, or my kin the largest return.


PSA (for now)

[freakhappy]

Is anyone really surprised that 4's come back with a crease? Both SGC and PSA allow for a light crease...SGC even allows 5's to have a spider crease...this is by definition from their grading scales.


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[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I disagree. I have seen many SGC 5s with corners that are too rounded to get a PSA 5, and higher grade cards that are too off center to get the corresponding PSA grade.

exactly.

[brewing]

A slight crease is easier to miss than a missing corner.

Or worn corners, bad centering, or paper loss.



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[mattsey9]

The PSA forums are littered with posts from frustrated customers whose cards take days to be logged into their system and that are not graded and returned until well after the promised date.

My SGC submissions promise a ten day turnaround and they have never failed to meet their stated goal with my cards.

This is an easy call for me. My cards are mine. I want them back to me on time and without excuses. SGC does that and PSA does not.

[jerrys]

Post#50

Actually "Someone else?" referred to a statement made by Steve.

But how is it your business to question what I decide to post or to reminded me of past threads?

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[steve B]

One of the things I don't like about TPG is that some people think of their favorite company as infallible.
All grading is done by people, and all people have an occasional bad day, or a slight bias, or a different idea of what matters for grade even with a written standard. SGC supposedly allows a tiny surface wrinkle up to a 70. But in practice, that sort of thing usually limits a card to a 50.

When I had some cards done at the shriners show I asked about a couple cards that I mentioned earlier. Here's one of them


It does have a tiny wrinkle in one border just about at the halfway point. I've had the card since the early-mid 80's and never saw it. Not even when I gave the cards a good look before sending them in. It also has a tiny flake of surface lost on one corner, but less missing than the corner wear I sometimes see on 50s. The rep I talked to spotted the wrinkle very quickly, and explained that the grade was a cumulative thing between whatever flaws the card has. (It's still a very nice looking card no matter the grade)

One thing I've noticed is how the more expensive/in demand a card is the impression I get is that the grading is a bit easier. How many Wagners are graded correctly? I feel it's about half, with almost all the ones in mid grades being a bit overgraded. More T206 HOF players seem a bit overgraded than commons. I have no data, but it seems that way to me, and applies to all companies.

My preference is SGC, but I wouldn't pass up a nice card at a nice price because it had the wrong holder. Usually it's the opposite - I've bought a few at flea markets that were in badly yellowed toploaders.

And just in case anyone thinks I'm just another SGC cheerleader --One of the cards I had done on-site. Another grade I think is a bit too high, but I'll go with it. The card is what it is afterall, and if I ever sell it the buyer can easily see the details.

Steve B

[T206Collector]

As I've explained on here a few times, grading is a pyramid. At the top, you have the 10s. 10 means perfection and thus all 10s will be identical. As you go down the pyramid, grades are set for a variety of reasons -- 9s almost all look the same, but 3s, 2s and 1s have a huge number of potential flaws, including paper loss on reverse, creasing, corner wear, etc. What makes a card an SGC 30 could be a variety of factors that tell you nothing about the eye appeal of the card without looking at it.

Professional grading is not designed to reflect eye appeal. It is designed to point out flaws, often hard to see or hidden, in a piece of card board. When you see a clean-looking SGC 30, you actually know there are a lot of hard to see flaws. When you see a badgered up SGC 30, what you see is what you get. But not all SGC 30s will look alike -- in fact, at that level of the "pyramid" you will have a lot of different looking cards.

This becomes problematic when sellers try to sell a PSA 2 for what a previous PSA 2 sold for. Without comparing both cards, going by the number alone gets you nowhere because what you don't know about the previous card is whether the damage was similar or whether the eye-appeal was comparable. Sometimes you can get a pretty good deal on a nice looking 2 when a seller is willing to use a previous ugly 2 as a comparable. This is why they say, "Buy the card, not the holder."

* * *

There is another point being made in this thread about the leniency of SGC on corners and centering. But, see, I'm fine with that. In that sense, I think SGC more matches more own personal tolerance for such flaws. But, what I can't stand, are creases. To me, no PSA 5/SGC 60 should be creased. And, hands down the biggest error I see in collecting SGC 60/PSA 5 T206s and 33 Goudeys is PSA grading cards as 5 that have wrinkles and creases.

When I buy my cards sight unseen on the internet, I have a very good understanding of what a card that has a scan plus an SGC grade will look like when I get it in my hands. That is so totally untrue with PSA. There is definitely a lot more risk in buying higher grade PSA cards on the internet given hidden flaws found in their cards. If you see an SGC 60 with rounded corners and centering issues, at least you know what you're buying. And you will price that card accordingly. It's finding the hidden flaws -- the ONLY REASON people should be using TPG in the first place -- that I really need help with when I buy cards online. PSA is simply not as good at that. Period.