NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-27-2015, 11:34 AM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 933
Default What Is the Median Scarcity for Old Judge Poses?

Question for Jay or Joe or whoever else wants to chime in:

What is the median scarcity for Old Judge poses?

By this I mean how many copies exist of the Old Judge pose that is right in the middle of the 2000+ pose scarcity continuum?

Obviously just looking for an informed estimate here.

Hope everyone is having a great holiday and thanks in advance for the feedback.

Scot
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-27-2015, 11:47 AM
sandmountainslim's Avatar
sandmountainslim sandmountainslim is offline
Bill Potter
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Between Macon and Muscle Shoals
Posts: 410
Default

Im curious as well about this. I would like to know how many examples of my one OJ card exists George Myers (catching)
__________________
Bill Potter
T206 Beater Collection currently at 50/524
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-27-2015, 12:02 PM
z28jd's Avatar
z28jd z28jd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,888
Default

I would guess the average is right around 15-20, figuring 2460 poses and a somewhere between 30,000 and 50,000 Old Judge cards exist. The average pose would then have about 15-20 examples.

To answer the Myers question, he is a common player to find, but certain poses are tougher to find even among common players, so the only way to really find out how many approximately exist is keeping track over a long time. I would say at least 100 Myers cards exist and his tagging player pose doesn't show up often, so the breakdown of his three cards could be 40-40-20(tagging). Just a rough estimate based on what I've seen.
__________________
Check out some Pittsburgh Pirates history https://www.facebook.com/ThisDateInP...iratesHistory/
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-27-2015, 12:33 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 933
Default

Thanks for the input. 15-20 is lower than I would have guessed -- but my guess would have been totally uninformed.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-27-2015, 12:52 PM
slidekellyslide's Avatar
slidekellyslide slidekellyslide is offline
Dan Bretta
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,749
Default

So every Old Judge card is rarer than the T206 Honus Wagner.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-27-2015, 12:55 PM
z28jd's Avatar
z28jd z28jd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,888
Default

Well, many of the Old Judge poses are extremely rare, so they drag down the average. If you saw the thread where we talked about Taylor Shafer, we mentioned that one of his cards(any pose) probably hasn't been for sale publicly for at least 12 years, but he has five poses in the set. I can't imagine more than five exist of any of his poses. There are a few players who fit that same mold as well, so they lower the average
__________________
Check out some Pittsburgh Pirates history https://www.facebook.com/ThisDateInP...iratesHistory/
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-27-2015, 12:58 PM
Joe_G.'s Avatar
Joe_G. Joe_G. is online now
Joe Gonsowski
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: IA (formerly MI)
Posts: 987
Default

OJ population by pose varies significantly and is best discussed by first understanding to which years/subsets the pose belongs. George Myers, for example, has three poses as follows:

337-1 Bat at ready, looking at camera = Issued 1887 (type A & B), 1888 (Fb), & 1889 (Fc)
337-2 Stooping, hands waist high = Issued 1887 (type A & B) & 1888 (Fb)
337-3 Tagging player on ground = Issued 1888 (Fb)

John's estimate is certainly in the ball park but suspect George Myers is an easier subject with closer to 100 copies pose 1, 70 copies pose 2, and 15 copies pose 3. This is merely a guess and reserve the right to answer differently next time.

Pose population is far from normal distribution. While 1887 cards, for example, are generally easy there are many outliers (Madden "bat against rock" for example )
__________________
Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski
COLLECTOR OF:
- 19th century Detroit memorabilia and cards with emphasis on Goodwin & Co. issues ( N172 / N173 / N175 ) and Tomlinson cabinets
- N333 SF Hess Newsboys League cards (all teams)
- Pre ATC Merger (1890 and prior) cigarette packs and redemption coupons from all manufacturers

Last edited by Joe_G.; 11-27-2015 at 01:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-27-2015, 01:17 PM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 3,881
Default

I think John approached this the right way. There are about 2535 poses known and if you assume 50,000 cards that would average out to slightly less than 20 copies/pose, on average. This is based on 50,000 cards being known, which may be high. The three biggest private Old Judge collections have under 8000 cards in aggregate. I would bet the next twenty have under 10,000 cards. After that you are down to a lot of small collections. Very few dealers have much of a stock. If the correct number was 40,000 cards then you are down to a average pose having 16 copies. If I had to hang my hat on a number, I would go with 16, which is in John's original range. Again, there are lots of unique or 2-3 copy poses. All the rarities fall into this category (except for Behel and Brady--they probably have 5-10 copies each, but they are there since they only have one pose).

Last edited by oldjudge; 11-27-2015 at 01:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-27-2015, 02:00 PM
insidethewrapper's Avatar
insidethewrapper insidethewrapper is offline
Mike
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 807
Default

Of the 2500+ variations what would be the "range" from least amount of copies for any one pose to the most ? ( 1-100 ?)
__________________
Wanted : Detroit Baseball Cards and Memorabilia ( from 19th Century Detroit Wolverines to Detroit Tigers Ty Cobb to Al Kaline).
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-27-2015, 02:04 PM
slidekellyslide's Avatar
slidekellyslide slidekellyslide is offline
Dan Bretta
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,749
Default

My dad found 3 OJ's "in the wild" (new to the hobby)...early 1980s at an estate auction. I have found only 4 OJ's "in the wild" in probably 30 years of attending thousands of estate sales, garage sales, antique shows and flea markets. 50,000 is probably about right.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards

Last edited by slidekellyslide; 11-27-2015 at 02:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-27-2015, 02:04 PM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 3,881
Default

The low number is certainly one. The high number probably represents a common pose that was issued in 1887 and reissued in 1888-1890. I would guess that number is south of 100, but probably not a lot south, perhaps 80-90.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-27-2015, 02:10 PM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 3,881
Default

I still think 50,000 seems high. I wonder how many people on the board have any Old Judges.

Last edited by oldjudge; 11-27-2015 at 02:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-27-2015, 02:23 PM
Jobu's Avatar
Jobu Jobu is offline
Bry@n
member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 2,341
Default

Is it time for a "What is Your OJ Number?" thread?

(Watch out Frank, the N guys are gunning for you!)

Last edited by Jobu; 11-27-2015 at 02:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-27-2015, 03:31 PM
insidethewrapper's Avatar
insidethewrapper insidethewrapper is offline
Mike
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 807
Default

I know some have been graded more than once but here's the numbers from the graders " PSA 3,855 and SGC 8,855 = 12,710 graded.
__________________
Wanted : Detroit Baseball Cards and Memorabilia ( from 19th Century Detroit Wolverines to Detroit Tigers Ty Cobb to Al Kaline).
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-27-2015, 03:33 PM
Joe_G.'s Avatar
Joe_G. Joe_G. is online now
Joe Gonsowski
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: IA (formerly MI)
Posts: 987
Default

Some may remember a similar discussion last year (OJ survival rate of up to 50k cards).

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...d.php?t=196113

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
The low number is certainly one. The high number probably represents a common pose that was issued in 1887 and reissued in 1888-1890. I would guess that number is south of 100, but probably not a lot south, perhaps 80-90.
I agree that the most common OJ is likely around 100 and I place the first pose of George Myers in that category with both type A & B zero number cards, an Fb, and Fc. FWIW, my estimates were arrived at as follows:
no more than 40 cards from 1887 type A zero number
no more than 20 cards from 1887 type B zero number
no more than 15 cards from 1888 (Fb)
no more than 30 cards from 1889 (Fc)
This gives a total of 105 which I rounded down to 100 but could easily be less (70-100 would be good guesstimate) for pose 1. The same math was used on pose 2 & 3 and recommend that if you wish to collect all three poses of George Myers that you don't pass on the next pose 3 that surfaces (Fb only).

I should note that there are many examples of Fb cards with less than 15 examples. Fb Anson in street clothes may hit 15 while Anson in Uniform is 4 (or 5). Fb Deacon White poses 2 & 8 are maybe around 10 apiece while the other 7 are ~2-5.

There are many very tough poses. The largest population of new poses surfaced in 1888 and 1888 is likewise the year with the highest count for single year poses. These are generally very tough cards. These coupled with a handful of Script cards and 1889 California League cards together with the many recently added poses that are cropping variations (with ball / without ball) and you are able to pull the common poses that are known at ~100 copies down to the ~20 copy average.
__________________
Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski
COLLECTOR OF:
- 19th century Detroit memorabilia and cards with emphasis on Goodwin & Co. issues ( N172 / N173 / N175 ) and Tomlinson cabinets
- N333 SF Hess Newsboys League cards (all teams)
- Pre ATC Merger (1890 and prior) cigarette packs and redemption coupons from all manufacturers
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-27-2015, 04:27 PM
bwbc917 bwbc917 is offline
Chris
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 220
Default Old Judge

Fascinating info. Keep the theories coming.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-27-2015, 04:49 PM
ctownboy ctownboy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 868
Default

I have lived in Central Indiana for about 25 years now. About 20 years ago, I found nine Old Judges at an auction.

They were:

Anson, Chicago's
Ewing, fielding grounder
Rusie, pitching, hands at neck
Faatz, Cleveland
Klusman, Denver
Powell, Sioux City
Strauss, Omaha
Van Haltren, Chicago, NL
Williamson, Chicago, NL

About four years ago, I found one OJ common at an auction (I thought it sold for too much but I didn't have the OJ book at that time, so, who knows, it could have been a rare common).

Two years ago, there was a find of 17 OJ's in or around Indianapolis.

Of course, there was a LARGE find in 2006 by Dave of Dave's Vintage Cards of 215 OJ's originating somewhere in Indianapolis.

That is all I have found or heard of,

David
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-27-2015, 04:55 PM
bbcard1 bbcard1 is offline
T0dd M@rcum
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 2,676
Default

I have a comiskey sliding, and a run of all poses Billy Sundays. It's been fun, but I'm probably happy where I am with them.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-27-2015, 05:01 PM
sandmountainslim's Avatar
sandmountainslim sandmountainslim is offline
Bill Potter
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Between Macon and Muscle Shoals
Posts: 410
Default

So all OJ owner's could safely say any given card they own is AS scarce if not more so than the T206 Wagner?
__________________
Bill Potter
T206 Beater Collection currently at 50/524
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-27-2015, 05:08 PM
Joe_G.'s Avatar
Joe_G. Joe_G. is online now
Joe Gonsowski
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: IA (formerly MI)
Posts: 987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandmountainslim View Post
So all OJ owner's could safely say any given card they own is AS scarce if not more so than the T206 Wagner?
If you define it as known N172 copies of same variation, yes. In most cases, you could add up all known variations of a given pose and be well below pop report of T206 Wagner.

Among the OJ finds that come to mind of better than a hundred cards . . .
Dave Levin 2004 Oregon Find 1400 OJs
Dave Levin 2006 Indy Find 215 OJs
Goldin Auction 2013 Cambridge Find 170 OJs (many other cards outside of OJ)
__________________
Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski
COLLECTOR OF:
- 19th century Detroit memorabilia and cards with emphasis on Goodwin & Co. issues ( N172 / N173 / N175 ) and Tomlinson cabinets
- N333 SF Hess Newsboys League cards (all teams)
- Pre ATC Merger (1890 and prior) cigarette packs and redemption coupons from all manufacturers

Last edited by Joe_G.; 11-27-2015 at 05:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-27-2015, 06:42 PM
CW's Avatar
CW CW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,376
Default

Uh oh, 20 posts and no cards shown. Here's a new arrival (I only have 6 OJs, no HOFers yet).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg n172 williamson.jpg (42.6 KB, 884 views)

Last edited by CW; 11-27-2015 at 06:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-27-2015, 07:23 PM
ctownboy ctownboy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 868
Default

Hello again,

I got hung up with scanning my OJ's with my new scanner and forgot the rest, which was the point I was trying to make.

So, the point was this; living near Indianapolis, a large, older city which HAD a pro base ball team which HAD cards of its players issued in the OJ series, knowing or hearing about less than 250 OJ's being found in a 25 year time period should say something about the scarcity of the cards.

Last edited by ctownboy; 11-27-2015 at 07:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:27 AM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 933
Default Follow-Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_G. View Post

I agree that the most common OJ is likely around 100 and I place the first pose of George Myers in that category with both type A & B zero number cards, an Fb, and Fc. FWIW, my estimates were arrived at as follows:
no more than 40 cards from 1887 type A zero number
no more than 20 cards from 1887 type B zero number
no more than 15 cards from 1888 (Fb)
no more than 30 cards from 1889 (Fc)
Thanks for the great information guys.

Joe, I collect the Denver team, which I gather is 1889 only. Can I glean from your post about Myers that roughly 30 copies of the most common Denver poses (e.g. some of the Silch poses) exist? Or would it be lower (e.g. due to the Brooklyn/Denver team change) or perhaps higher? Thanks. Scot
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-28-2015, 11:52 AM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 3,881
Default

Scot--Based on my experience, 30 copies is very high for any Denver pose. I would put the correct number in the ballpark 15-20 range for the most common Denver pose.
Joe and I will do some chatting to try to arrive at a "unified" guess to your original question.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-28-2015, 03:37 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 933
Default

Thank you Jay.

Here is my experience with N172 Denvers. They are tough. At least I have one of each player.

Pose / Have? / Offered for sale* (since 2007)?

Dalrymple 113-1 No None
Darymple 113-2 Yes Multiple
Dalrymple 113-3 No None
Darnbrough 118-1 Yes Multiple
Darnbrough 118-2 No One
Dolan 126-1 Yes Multiple
Dolan 126-2 Yes Multiple
Fagan 151-1 Yes One
Healy 219-1 Yes One
Hoffman 228-1 No None
Hoffman 228-2 No None
Hoffman 228-3 No None
Hoffman 228-4 No None
Hoffman 228-5 Yes One
Klusman 265-1 No None
Klusman 265-2 Yes Multiple
Klusman 265-3 Yes Multiple
Klusman 265-4 Yes One
Klusman 265-5 No None
McClellan 304-1 No None
McClellan 304-3 Yes Multiple
McQuaid 318-1 Yes One
McQuaid 318-2 No None
McQuaid 318-3 Yes One
McQuaid 318-4 Yes One
McVey 321-1 No None
McVey 321-2 Yes One
McVey 321-3 Yes One
McVey 321-4 No None
McVey 321-5 No None
Rowe 393-1 No None
Rowe 393-2 Yes One
Rowe 393-3 No None
Silch 419-1 No One
Silch 419-3 Yes Multiple
Silch 419-4 Yes Multiple
Silch 419-5 Yes One
Treadway 463-1 Yes One

*What I have seen. Does not include lots.

Last edited by sreader3; 11-28-2015 at 04:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-28-2015, 05:50 PM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,260
Default N172 Denver

Here are 318-4 McQuaid Denver and 321-2 McVey Denvers from a lot from the recent Heritage auction. I don't know if they are included in your Denver census or not. When I was going through the lot, I stopped and looked at these and thought,"It seems like I don't see many Denvers that often"...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg n172McQuaid589.jpg (77.8 KB, 765 views)
File Type: jpg n172McVey590.jpg (58.1 KB, 754 views)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-28-2015, 07:55 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 933
Default

Hi RC,

Thanks for the post. Beautiful cards, and I happen to have a copy of those poses. I sometimes miss the big lots, so lots are not be included in my survey. Still interesting to me since that is only the second copy of those poses I have seen offered in the last several years.

Scot

Last edited by sreader3; 11-28-2015 at 07:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-28-2015, 08:14 PM
rsst206 rsst206 is offline
Ron Skaggs
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: California Bay Area
Posts: 231
Default Old judges

Hi All,
Here are my 5 old judges 2 Kelly's, 2 Toole's and a Denny
best regards
Ron
Attached Images
File Type: jpg old judges.jpg (32.3 KB, 745 views)
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-29-2015, 08:44 AM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,761
Default Missing OJ Posts...

Thanks for starting this thread Scot! I have been missing the OJ discussions... Great knowledge and thanks to all for sharing.

It was mentioned in this thread earlier that OJ's are all more scarce than T206 Wagner, and it prompted me to think about an old thread where we asked Net 54 members to posts a card they own that is more rare/scarce than the T-Wags, and basically after thousands of posts, we realized that the T Wags is not rare and probably not even scarce. If the George Myers 100 pose is common, then the Wagner is common.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=199179

Now, back to original thread... I checked and I have 28 OJ's and one being an McVey Denver. I collect OJ players that played in Nashville and are featured on a OJ cards... Obviously there are 2 Nashville players that played in California League (Dooley & Kremmeyer), that are impossible, so I will never get to all 30 Nashville players...

Informative Thread -
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Phillips.jpg (78.2 KB, 646 views)
File Type: jpg Shaw-Newarks (2).jpg (73.7 KB, 643 views)
File Type: jpg Marr-Cincy.jpg (48.8 KB, 652 views)
File Type: jpg Mack-Louisville-Cincy.jpg (78.2 KB, 656 views)
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia

Last edited by DixieBaseball; 11-29-2015 at 04:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-29-2015, 10:28 AM
slidekellyslide's Avatar
slidekellyslide slidekellyslide is offline
Dan Bretta
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,749
Default

The Omahas I used to own. Wish I had kept working at the set.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg omahas.jpg (67.7 KB, 688 views)
File Type: jpg kidnichols1.jpg (73.7 KB, 685 views)
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards

Last edited by slidekellyslide; 11-29-2015 at 10:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-29-2015, 12:10 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 933
Default Scans

A hard to find player and a nicer example from my Denvers group.

I love the fact they went to the trouble to block-out the MILWAUKEE team name on Klusman's shirt (reminds me of Topps' practice of airbrushing caps and batting helmets on 1970s cards).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg N172 Hoffman Denvers Front.jpg (60.0 KB, 801 views)
File Type: jpg N172 Klusman Catching Front Cropped.jpg (70.9 KB, 798 views)
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-29-2015, 12:14 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 8,613
Default

Wow that klusman is crisp.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-29-2015, 01:32 PM
baztacula's Avatar
baztacula baztacula is offline
D@vi d B@zi ni
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 203
Default

I'd like to see all of the Toad Ramsey OJs out there. There are three known poses with two being batting poses, which I find ridiculous because Toad was a sucky hitter and was always known for his pitching prowess. So my favorite Toad pose is of him pitching.


Whenever I Google Ramsey I come across the Burdick Toads and stare at them for a while. The pitching Burdick Toad has such a clear image, along with a dollop of cured glue at the bottom...


Another one I like to gaze upon is from the Dave's Vintage page, which I guess came from one of the two "finds" from over 10 years ago. It's a sweet one...



So if you have a Toad of any pose, please post a scan. I'd especially like to see the SGC 70 and SGC 60 examples that show up in the population report search. I'm disappointed that SGC doesn't specify poses in their registry. I'm curious if one of the SGC Toads is the Dave's Vintage Toad.

Here is mine, which I've posted before...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN2633.jpg (75.6 KB, 780 views)
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-29-2015, 06:56 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
Wow that klusman is crisp.
Thanks Pete. It's an amazing card; looks like it was pulled from a pack this morning. I bought it from Jay 6 or 7 years ago. Maybe he knows something about its origin (sorry Jay -- no pressure!) . . . .
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-29-2015, 09:41 PM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 3,881
Default

Unfortunately, I don't remember where it came from.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-30-2015, 12:25 AM
jcmtiger's Avatar
jcmtiger jcmtiger is offline
Joe M.
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,513
Default

I have about 35 Old Judge cards. includes all the 1887 Detroit Wolverines, all poses. I find the Detroit players are difficult to find , especially for me.

Joe
__________________
"Ty Cobb, Spikes Flying"

Collecting Detroit 19th Century N172, N173, N175.

Positive transactions with Joe G, Jay Miller, CTANK80, BIGFISH, MGHPRO, k. DIXON, LEON, INSIDETHEWRAPPER, GOCUBSGO32, Steve Suckow, RAINIER2004, Ben Yourg, GNAZ01, yanksrnice09, cmiz5290
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-30-2015, 04:04 PM
baztacula's Avatar
baztacula baztacula is offline
D@vi d B@zi ni
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 203
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmtiger View Post
I have about 35 Old Judge cards. includes all the 1887 Detroit Wolverines, all poses. I find the Detroit players are difficult to find , especially for me.

Joe
Joe, I think I saw your post from a while ago showing all those Old Judge Detroit guys. Very impressive. I have the #1 ranked 1978 Burger King Detroit Tigers set on the PSA Registry... so if you ever want to trade sets, send me a message!
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-14-2015, 09:38 PM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 3,881
Default

Joe, Kevin Cummings and myself have performed some extensive analysis, and the quick and dirty is that we think the best guess as to the number of baseball Old Judges (N172s) in existence, both in private hands and in public venues, is about 35,000. This implies that on average there are about 14 copies per pose. However, the variation around this number is pretty wide. Joe will post more about this, including some year by year details, at a later time.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-14-2015, 10:08 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 933
Default

Wow, thanks guys for your efforts on this. It really puts OJ scarcity into perspective. Jay/Joe/Richard's book relates so much detail with so much seeming ease that it lulls the casual reader into thinking these cards must be more common than 14 per pose by at least an order of magnitude!

Last edited by sreader3; 12-14-2015 at 10:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-16-2015, 09:36 AM
z28jd's Avatar
z28jd z28jd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
Joe, Kevin Cummings and myself have performed some extensive analysis, and the quick and dirty is that we think the best guess as to the number of baseball Old Judges (N172s) in existence, both in private hands and in public venues, is about 35,000. This implies that on average there are about 14 copies per pose. However, the variation around this number is pretty wide. Joe will post more about this, including some year by year details, at a later time.
Thanks for putting in the work Jay and Joe. I figured the 40K guess wasn't far off. With the new number I realized I own at least 1% of all OJ cards, higher % for some individual players
__________________
Check out some Pittsburgh Pirates history https://www.facebook.com/ThisDateInP...iratesHistory/
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 12-16-2015, 10:17 AM
autograf's Avatar
autograf autograf is offline
Tom Boblitt
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 1,897
Default

Here's the SGC70 Ramsey......formerly in my collection.



And 2 of the 3 Brownings I once had......



Sorry the photos aren't a little bigger/better.............

Last edited by autograf; 12-16-2015 at 10:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-16-2015, 10:29 AM
autograf's Avatar
autograf autograf is offline
Tom Boblitt
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 1,897
Default

I also show that I had an SGC60 Ramsey but I don't have a photo of that one...........the Brownings were subsequently SGC graded as a 30 and 40 respectively. Not sure about the third one I had.

Last edited by autograf; 12-16-2015 at 10:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-16-2015, 03:49 PM
kkkkandp's Avatar
kkkkandp kkkkandp is offline
Kevin Cummings
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Closter, NJ
Posts: 854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by autograf View Post
I also show that I had an SGC60 Ramsey but I don't have a photo of that one....
Tom:

I believe this is your "missing" Ramsey! : )

Kevin
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ramsey.jpg (37.5 KB, 665 views)
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-23-2015, 01:40 PM
felada felada is offline
D@vid Fel@
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 262
Default

Not to go off on too much of at agent but the relative small number of individual OJ cards puts into perspective how truly scarce some of the other 19th century issue like Lone Jacks,SF Hess, G&Bs and kbats are.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-23-2015, 02:11 PM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 3,881
Default

Every photographic 19th century set is at the least scarce, and in many cases rare. When you talk about Lone Jacks, G&Bs, Yum Yums, NY K-Bats, Four Base Hits, etc you are talking about sets where even the most common cards have five copies or less.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-24-2015, 09:55 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 27,098
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
Every photographic 19th century set is at the least scarce, and in many cases rare. When you talk about Lone Jacks, G&Bs, Yum Yums, NY K-Bats, Four Base Hits, etc you are talking about sets where even the most common cards have five copies or less.
I am not sure there are 3 of any of the Four Base Hits cards. I loved 19th century when I collected it but it can be pricey....
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-03-2016, 10:41 AM
baztacula's Avatar
baztacula baztacula is offline
D@vi d B@zi ni
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 203
Default Toad update

Thanks for posting the SGC 60 & 70 Ramsey photos, guys.

So here are all the N172 Toad Ramsey cards I have seen photos of so far.

If anyone can share more examples, please post the photos. There are two other SGC-graded Toads (poses unknown) that I haven't seen, one graded 'Authentic' and another 'SGC 20'. There are also two PSA Toads graded 'Authenic', both of the 379-1 variety. It's possible some of the photos of the cards currently featured in this post were subsequently graded, aside from the Burdick museum Toads of course.

Updated with 1888 "Trimmed Toad" pitching pose. Thanks, Joe G. & John D. Also, it was recommended that I separate the 1888 and 1889 Toads so they aren't all jumbled together, so I did.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Project Toad UPDATE (14).jpg (69.6 KB, 361 views)

Last edited by baztacula; 01-10-2016 at 11:22 AM. Reason: updated with new image
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 01-05-2016, 09:09 AM
baztacula's Avatar
baztacula baztacula is offline
D@vi d B@zi ni
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 203
Default

So I stumbled upon images of 2 more pitching Toads (379-3) from old auctions. I added them in the above post. I am waiting on the image of yet another trimmed example of that card, which would bring the current pitching pose Toad total to nine. I'm finding more than I though I would.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-09-2016, 11:05 AM
Ribbens Ribbens is offline
David Ribbens
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 313
Default

Anyone have any OJ Chicago Maroons to trade or sell ?
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-09-2016, 11:21 AM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 3,881
Default

I have three in a BST ad
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old Judge - 2500+ poses & growing, but stable at 521 subjects Joe_G. Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 10 01-24-2010 03:03 PM
New Old Judge Poses oldjudge Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 12 11-01-2009 09:53 AM
New Old Judge Poses Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 10 09-09-2009 08:02 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 AM.


ebay GSB