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  #51  
Old 06-04-2018, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz View Post
Speaking of patents, I do see that as of 2017 there is a Patent Pending for computer grading technology.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160210734A1/en
Who are these guys?
Inventor: Stephen Brent Kass, Edward Korbel, Daniel R. Barbakow, Robert Alan Cook
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-04-2018 at 10:40 AM.
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  #52  
Old 06-04-2018, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Who are these guys?
Inventor: Stephen Brent Kass, Edward Korbel, Daniel R. Barbakow, Robert Alan Cook
There are few more listed in the newest application:

https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180004756

Quote:
Inventors: Stephen Brent Kass (Los Angeles, CA), Edward Korbel (Sherman Oaks, CA), Daniel R. Barbakow (Los Angeles, CA), Robert Alan Cook (Encino, CA), Scot Maxwell (Tustin, CA), Hayden Blauzvern (Austin, TX), Megan Shao (Torrance, CA), Ben Teng (Santa Clara, CA), Avi Thaker (Austin, TX)
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  #53  
Old 06-04-2018, 10:55 AM
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These guys know of what they speak.

"Awareness in the marketplace of the possibilities for resubmitted cards receiving higher grades has resulted in card owners breaking open the “tamper proof” holders and resubmitting the cards multiple times, if necessary, without disclosing that the card has been previously graded.

The variance in grades for resubmitted cards combined with the subjective and inconsistent card grading process itself results in creating a lack of confidence in the marketplace necessary to sustain a stable and efficient market.

The present process utilized in the grading industry creates opportunity for larger collectors (e.g. larger customers of the card grading companies) to manipulate the current system's subjective grading to their advantage by re-submitting cards for a higher grade based upon natural human variability or their influence as a large customer. Small collectors lack sufficient size to “influence” card grading and often sell cards at lower prices due to the lower grades they receive."
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-04-2018 at 10:56 AM.
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  #54  
Old 06-04-2018, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz View Post
Speaking of patents, I do see that as of 2017 there is a Patent Pending for computer grading technology.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160210734A1/en
That is some good stuff there. Looks like I made some people a lot of money
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  #55  
Old 06-04-2018, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz View Post
There are few more listed in the newest application:

https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180004756
I wonder how many of those guys are members here on NET54?
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  #56  
Old 06-04-2018, 11:26 AM
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I've known about this saying for many years but thanks to you I now know that the Fonz was wearing his leather jacket when he jumped said shark.

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  #57  
Old 06-04-2018, 11:27 AM
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Are you saying that YOU are the one who actually invented this?
Did you file for a patent application?
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  #58  
Old 06-04-2018, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeDfan View Post
Are you saying that YOU are the one who actually invented this?
Yes I did

No worries. Hard to prove its your unique idea when its written and built almost to a T from someone else plans and ideas from 10 years prior to filing.
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Last edited by T205 GB; 06-04-2018 at 11:49 AM.
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  #59  
Old 06-04-2018, 12:44 PM
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The problem isn't subjectivity, it isn't that people are doing the grading. It's right there in the patent.

"Each of the grading companies grade cards by human evaluation, primarily with the naked eye and typically devote approximately one minute per card during the grading process. "

That's why things are a mess.

Last edited by steve B; 06-04-2018 at 12:44 PM. Reason: adited for clarity
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  #60  
Old 06-04-2018, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
The problem isn't subjectivity, it isn't that people are doing the grading. It's right there in the patent.

"Each of the grading companies grade cards by human evaluation, primarily with the naked eye and typically devote approximately one minute per card during the grading process. "

That's why things are a mess.
I would guess it would be actually much less.
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  #61  
Old 06-04-2018, 02:36 PM
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The grading industry is long overdue for a major overhaul. I hope that whatever technology will be used corrects some or all of the curent problems. I really don't want to hear about the subjectivity of grading. I want to hear about a system that grades cards correctly and will deliver that same grade no matter how many times a card is reviewed. I don't want to hear stories about cards being submitted three times and getting three different grades. If it can't be done right, then it shouldn't be done at all.
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  #62  
Old 06-04-2018, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Who are these guys?
Inventor: Stephen Brent Kass, Edward Korbel, Daniel R. Barbakow, Robert Alan Cook
Well one is a software engineer for Intel another one for Google, there's a lawyer in there a data scientist for Microsoft etc...These folks are not messing around!
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  #63  
Old 06-04-2018, 05:59 PM
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I invented the blind spot indicator lights on cars' mirrors to let you know when someone is in your blind spot years before they ever showed up on a car. I wish I had patented that idea even to this day. I always said I was going to sell the idea to Mercedes or BMW as it would have to come out on a luxury car first and then it would become a common feature on all cars. Sure enough...

Oh well. Back to my desk and paycheck.
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  #64  
Old 06-04-2018, 06:22 PM
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Gulp. I'm SGC's lawyer. Now what?
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  #65  
Old 06-04-2018, 06:46 PM
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Gulp. I'm SGC's lawyer. Now what?
Awkward...
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  #66  
Old 06-05-2018, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
The problem isn't subjectivity, it isn't that people are doing the grading. It's right there in the patent.

"Each of the grading companies grade cards by human evaluation, primarily with the naked eye and typically devote approximately one minute per card during the grading process. "

That's why things are a mess.
i’d posit that if need a whole minute to go over a card (esp if you have a loupe and a grid overlay for centering-which i would hope professional graders have in their toolbox) to grade it, that you’re a slowpoke doing it wrong.

Last edited by charnick; 06-05-2018 at 03:30 AM.
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  #67  
Old 06-05-2018, 06:39 AM
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If I were a current TPG I would be looking at this very closely. Wow....Some serious research here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz View Post
There are few more listed in the newest application:

https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180004756
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  #68  
Old 06-05-2018, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
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Gulp. I'm SGC's lawyer. Now what?
I left my address and phone number in one of the earlier post in this thread so do what you gotta do.
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  #69  
Old 06-05-2018, 08:34 AM
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I left my address and phone number in one of the earlier post in this thread so do what you gotta do.
I'll be doing nothing but ok.
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  #70  
Old 06-05-2018, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz View Post
There are few more listed in the newest application:

https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180004756
Hi Fellas,

New guy here. Saw they also secured trademarks. https://trademarks.justia.com/owners...g-llc-3035778/ Interesting stuff. Despite current grading approaches needing an overhaul, I am not sure this is THE answer.

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  #71  
Old 06-05-2018, 01:37 PM
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One question I have regarding the process of grading a card via scanning...

Pre-War cards, particularly tobacco cards, tend to have ink errors and/or stamps. How will marks be detected vs. printing errors, and how will the grade be affected?
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  #72  
Old 06-05-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 View Post
One question I have regarding the process of grading a card via scanning...

Pre-War cards, particularly tobacco cards, tend to have ink errors and/or stamps. How will marks be detected vs. printing errors, and how will the grade be affected?
I am not involved, but I would assume the program would know the ink colors used and be able to distinguish between ink from the printing process vs ink that was added later.
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  #73  
Old 06-05-2018, 02:54 PM
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I confess I haven't studied the patent. Do these guys actually have a machine that can grade a card which they have tested, or is it just a design?
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  #74  
Old 06-05-2018, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 View Post
One question I have regarding the process of grading a card via scanning...

Pre-War cards, particularly tobacco cards, tend to have ink errors and/or stamps. How will marks be detected vs. printing errors, and how will the grade be affected?
I would assume the digital images of prior cards would be saved for comparison. Doing this they could do something completely amazing for the hobby.

Imagine SGC using there 100 point system to the fullest, having a T206 Cobb graded SGC 5.3 while another graded 5.8. Regrades would be rolling in and NO MORE DARN STICKERS!!.

Just my opinion: have two thinner gaskets with the card sealed in a nice sleeve in between. They don't have to change the look and no more sliding under the gasket or edge damage. I have a few in bad need of this!!
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  #75  
Old 06-05-2018, 05:36 PM
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Yeah, to roll out a new, "more accurate" grading system, but then revert to a 10 point scale seems bizarre. You could deduct a single percentage point for a fisheye, or depression on the surface of a card. Having to downgrade it a half grade or no downgrade at all seems counter-intuitive.
I guess the standardization of monetizing a card's value would be too splintered with additional grading divisions, so maybe that's why it's on the way out. (That's presuming they are switching to the 10 point scale, which is implied by the images of the new flips; maybe they're mock-ups?)

My worry about computerized grading is that no card is technically perfect. Say the computer spits out the best graded card out of thousands of modern cards that get submitted and it's a 94%. Are they going to declare that 94% to be the standard for an SGC 100/10 Pristine? Are they never going to award a 100, 98, or 96 again? If the best grade a person submitted to SGC could gain is a NM-MT+, is anyone going to submit to a company when they could get a BGS 9.5 or PSA 10 with a human grader? I also think the whole idea is overblown, and that the market is doing just fine with cards being graded by humans on the whole. If it wasn't there wouldn't be an exponential increase in the value of high grade vintage commons like there is.

Someone could also flood the initial submissions with this new computerized grading with good quality fakes, and if not caught, those could be the first cadre of slabbed/scanned cards, and become the standard which real cards are compared to.
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  #76  
Old 06-05-2018, 06:28 PM
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I wouldn't doubt SGC already has 1000's of cards already scanned before even the announcement of the new system and they're not going to blindly scan a card w/o authenticity. The initial website, before the take-down, was most likely to spur forum conversations and inputs.


This isn't for the dying vintage submissions which is/will be plaguing all TPG, this is for the NEW, shiny stuff produced every year. A full 100 pt grading would be VERY cool but may be a bit much. But on the high end shiny, it would make sense: Mint 90-94, Gem Mint 95-99, Pristine 100. How many BGS Gem Mint combos are there, couple dozen?

Last edited by PiratesWS1979; 06-05-2018 at 06:31 PM.
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  #77  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:05 PM
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I got the email this morning some time, does anyone have a clue why the new stuff was taken down. Seems really silly to send out an email like that then pull it down.

I have supported SGC forever cause I like the look of the insert and I hate the floating and inconsistent casing PSA does on pre war stuff. Although I am sure that pre war makes up a small overall percentage of what people submit it is all I really care about. If these changes come through I am not sure what I will do, the large number is far too big and looks silly. One of the comic book grading companies made the grade number much bigger but it's a far larger item so, I am now used to the new look. Not sure I could even get used to this.

I guess time will tell but again why in the world was it pulled down??

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  #78  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:29 PM
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Lawsuit?

Paging the good counselor
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  #79  
Old 06-19-2018, 09:09 PM
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Some more details here: https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...cess-upgrades/
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  #80  
Old 06-19-2018, 09:50 PM
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Sounds like some positive changes. And I guess I'm going to be the one person who kinda likes the look of the new label. I won't know for sure until I see one in person though.
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  #81  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:27 AM
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I like the idea of "grader notes". Sometimes you wonder how they came up with a certain grade.
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  #82  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:43 AM
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Default Grader Notes = "Subgrades"

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I like the idea of "grader notes". Sometimes you wonder how they came up with a certain grade.

...Beckett older slabs used "subgrades" --they still show up on E-Bay...

..
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  #83  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:03 AM
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I rather have an '8' OC than a BVG 4 any day...and twice on Sunday.
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  #84  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:13 AM
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Everything in the SCD article sounds really positive for SGC customers. I just wonder whether they've lost the chance to really compete regardless of what they offer. The changes aren't likely to entice mainstream PSA loyalists because of the registry. Perhaps their target is Beckett, which is so swamped that they are stopping certain services until they get through their backlog. SGC mgmt. has to envy that level of business by a non-PSA competitor.
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  #85  
Old 06-20-2018, 01:25 PM
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Are the old serial numbers from SGCs slabs going to be incorporated into the new system?
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  #86  
Old 06-20-2018, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Everything in the SCD article sounds really positive for SGC customers. I just wonder whether they've lost the chance to really compete regardless of what they offer. The changes aren't likely to entice mainstream PSA loyalists because of the registry. Perhaps their target is Beckett, which is so swamped that they are stopping certain services until they get through their backlog. SGC mgmt. has to envy that level of business by a non-PSA competitor.
What do you think they would need to do in order to challenge PSA? I would say overhaul their registry and it seems like they are doing that...
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  #87  
Old 06-20-2018, 02:52 PM
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I hope they don't get rid of the green border like they did for a hot second a few years ago. I was one of many that complained about that on here.

SGC, please keep the green border labels. Collectors like uniformity in their collection. By all means improve the black gasket to prevent slippage, make stronger plastic cases, and enhance the label security, do the 10-point scale, but keep the green border.
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  #88  
Old 06-20-2018, 03:23 PM
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Default from OGK creative

Looks like black, gold, and purple are the new proposed colors.
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  #89  
Old 06-20-2018, 03:42 PM
The Nasty Nati The Nasty Nati is offline
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Wow, thats crazy. I understand the need to stay new and innovative, but forest green is their identity. You wont see PSA getting rid of their red ever.
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  #90  
Old 06-20-2018, 03:46 PM
The Nasty Nati The Nasty Nati is offline
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It would be cool if SGC showed maybe 6 concepts and there would be a public vote for the winning design.

Maybe it’s too late in the production process, but I know SGC is excellent when it comes to their customer service. It would be great if the consumer had a little say in the final look.

Last edited by The Nasty Nati; 06-20-2018 at 03:48 PM.
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  #91  
Old 07-05-2018, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
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Wow, thats crazy. I understand the need to stay new and innovative, but forest green is their identity. You wont see PSA getting rid of their red ever.
i can't even imagine a purple colored flip...
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  #92  
Old 07-05-2018, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
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i can't even imagine a purple colored flip...
Maybe they're coordinating with the purple sticker morons.
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  #93  
Old 07-05-2018, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
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Maybe they're coordinating with the purple sticker morons.
LOL!! I was thinking the same!

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