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  #1  
Old 11-23-2019, 12:16 AM
theotobel theotobel is offline
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Default Babe Ruth Investment?

Hello everyone!

I am a new collector - I am 14 years old.
I am very interested in obtaining a Babe Ruth card for an investment.
What is the best Babe Ruth card to invest in for less than $5,000?

Go Dodgers!

Thanks,
Theo Tobel
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2019, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theotobel View Post
Hello everyone!

I am a new collector - I am 14 years old.
I am very interested in obtaining a Babe Ruth card for an investment.
What is the best Babe Ruth card to invest in for less than $5,000?

Go Dodgers!

Thanks,
Theo Tobel
Hey Theo. Welcome to the board. My honest advice to anyone just joining the hobby, and particularly at your age, would be not to start with a $5,000 card.
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2019, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by conor912 View Post
Hey Theo. Welcome to the board. My honest advice to anyone just joining the hobby, and particularly at your age, would be not to start with a $5,000 card.
+1 agree! But welcome to the hobby!

But to answer your question about Babe Ruth, there are lots of options available for a card. There is the Sanella card that is available for $200. There is the Churchmans sports of the world series card for about $200. Then there are some photos available like the 1934 Butterfinger, and the 1934 Quaker Oats that are between $100-$800 depending on quality.

But like the previous poster stated, for your age and being new to the hobby, you should experiment to see what you like. Some collectors like the thrill of opening packs or even boxes. Some like seeking out autographs. Others collect memorabilia. Some people collect archived news photos. There are so many different corners of the hobby. I suggest likewise you explore the areas of collecting before making a rush to invest so heavily on a single card.

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  #4  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:10 AM
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Welcome to the hobby Theo :-) it’s exciting to know that
young collectors like yourself are interested into vintage cards !

I would take $4,500 of that $5,000 you have and buy some McDonald’s or Apple Stock. Take the remaining $500 and buy some vintage cards !
I wouldn’t recommend vintage cards as an investment at these ultra inflated current levels. The only time I would even Consider investing in cards is during a Significant US economic recession. That would be the only time. In the mean time spend a little money in cards to enjoy the hobby save the investing for something else :-) most of all have fun!

Last edited by Johnny630; 11-23-2019 at 07:12 AM.
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by theotobel View Post
What is the best Babe Ruth card to invest in for less than $5,000?

Go Dodgers!
1933 Goudey. He has 4 different cards.
Pick the one you like best or can get the best deal on.
Since you are a Dodgers fan, there is a 1962 Topps card that has him as a coach for the Dodgers. That might be a good 2nd card to pick up as it is pretty cheap. You can never go wrong with Ruth.
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:18 AM
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In that price range, I would bet most will recommend a 1933 Goudey. Classic
and colorful set, four possible Ruths to choose from. You can get one in VG-EX condition for around what you have to spend.


There aren't a lot of mainstream Ruth cards from his playing days because there weren't a lot of cards made of him. Most people ignore the strip cards because their images are cartoonish and their production quality were pretty awful. So you're stuck with oversized cards/photos pasted to cardboard backings or the Goudeys.

The Sport Kings is cool too, but the set is not as well collected. They're a little more niche.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:08 AM
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Welcome and I fully agree with the sentiment that itís great to see a young guy interested in vintage; you are wise beyond your years. I disagree with Johnny that vintage is not a good investment - I think itís a great investment (especially Ruth), but you need to be long/looking to hold for a while through economic cycles.

Regarding Ruth at your price range, I suggest the 1921 Exhibits. Itís undervalued, in my opinion, and is early Ruth and first-year Yankee, plus itís a unique (and attractive) pose. For $5000 you should be able to get a nice looking 3-4, like the one below (no longer my card). Good luck!
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:01 AM
ejharrington ejharrington is offline
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Since you're a Dodgers fan, I would collect anything that has him in a Dodgers uniform. 1962 Venezuelan Topps for example.

I would not recommend collecting solely for investment.
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:19 AM
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Since you're a Dodgers fan, I would collect anything that has him in a Dodgers uniform. 1962 Venezuelan Topps for example.

I would not recommend collecting solely for investment.
I think Ruth in Dodgers items have little to no value and little to no room for growth, even oddballs like the Venezuelan. This 14-year-old may be a trust fund or bitcoin baby. Why do you feel the need to tell him what to collect?
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:32 AM
bigfish bigfish is offline
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Default Ruth

Quote:
Originally Posted by theotobel View Post
Hello everyone!

I am a new collector - I am 14 years old.
I am very interested in obtaining a Babe Ruth card for an investment.
What is the best Babe Ruth card to invest in for less than $5,000?

Go Dodgers!

Thanks,
Theo Tobel

For a 5000 budget go with a nice 21 exhibit or a nicely centered 33 goudey. Babe Ruth is recession proof!
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  #11  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:38 AM
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Welcome to the board!!

I would definitely recommend the 33 Goudey Ruths as the cards to own.
That's where I started, picked up #181 about 20 years ago, and now I'm well over 120 vintage Ruth cards and counting!!!

Always buy Babe Ruth cards, he's not going to have a bad year.

Enjoy your Ruth search
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  #12  
Old 11-23-2019, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theotobel View Post
Hello everyone!

I am a new collector - I am 14 years old.
I am very interested in obtaining a Babe Ruth card for an investment.
What is the best Babe Ruth card to invest in for less than $5,000?

Go Dodgers!

Thanks,
Theo Tobel
Welcome.

First of all, at your age, you should not be spending that kind of money on cards. During your teenage years, you should just focus on educating yourself on the hobby. I remember I used to have hobby magazines scattered all over my bed and I'd read the forums using my free dial-up Internet connection. I was like a sponge during those years; I just absorbed everything I could. By the time I was making money in my early twenties, I knew exactly what moves to make, and I didn't have to ask anyone for advice either. And yes, that's the second point I want to make, and that is never ask other people what to do with your money. If you find yourself doing that frequently, then it means you don't know much, and if you don't know much, then you definitely shouldn't be spending large amounts like that. Knowledge is power, my friend. Have fun learning about the hobby.
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  #13  
Old 11-23-2019, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
Welcome.

First of all, at your age, you should not be spending that kind of money on cards. During your teenage years, you should just focus on educating yourself on the hobby. I remember I used to have hobby magazines scattered all over my bed and I'd read the forums using my free dial-up Internet connection. I was like a sponge during those years; I just absorbed everything I could. By the time I was making money in my early twenties, I knew exactly what moves to make, and I didn't have to ask anyone for advice either. And yes, that's the second point I want to make, and that is never ask other people what to do with your money. If you find yourself doing that frequently, then it means you don't know much, and if you don't know much, then you definitely shouldn't be spending large amounts like that. Knowledge is power, my friend. Have fun learning about the hobby.
THEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You donít have to worry about this kid ó Theo is the smartest 14 year old around and will be the GM of a team someday. He is hugely knowledgeable not just about baseball but the numbers beneath the game. He knows what heís doing.
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  #14  
Old 11-23-2019, 02:19 PM
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And I would agree that a 1921 Exhibit or any of the four 1933 Goudey cards in a graded holder would make a great investment.
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  #15  
Old 11-23-2019, 02:23 PM
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Id agree with what almost everyone has said. Dont blow 5000 on a card. There are plenys of ruth cards u can have for much less to start off. Get a nice looking card or 2 for 300 -500 each. Put the rest in in a stock like at&t that pays a nice dividend.
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  #16  
Old 11-23-2019, 02:30 PM
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This.
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  #17  
Old 11-23-2019, 02:48 PM
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Or this

Or this

Or this

Really any great looking, early or iconic Ruth item is a better investment vs the more mainstream cards in my opinion.
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  #18  
Old 11-23-2019, 03:41 PM
ejharrington ejharrington is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
I think Ruth in Dodgers items have little to no value and little to no room for growth, even oddballs like the Venezuelan. This 14-year-old may be a trust fund or bitcoin baby. Why do you feel the need to tell him what to collect?
Because he asked. I did not ask for your thoughts though.
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Last edited by ejharrington; 11-23-2019 at 09:48 PM. Reason: Edit
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  #19  
Old 11-23-2019, 04:53 PM
100backstroke 100backstroke is offline
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Perhaps consider the 1926-29 Postcard Back Babe Ruth, Pose in psa 5. Great pic, super classic and mid grade would get you no creases or other semi-significant issues.
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  #20  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
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Why do you feel the need to tell him what to collect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejharrington View Post
Because he asked
"Because he asked." As good a reason as any.

But on the other hand, it's unusual for a 14-year-old to announce they have $5,000 to "invest" on a baseball card. How many of us had that kind of money when we were 14? I certainly didn't, and even if I did I wouldn't have been allowed to invest it in baseball cards - plural - let alone spend it all on one single card.

So it's understandable that many here would want to be cautious and make sure he knows what he's doing.
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  #21  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:24 PM
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If you are deadset on the scenario you outlined, I would buy the nicest 33 goudey you can find in that range. It seems generally the most popular Ruth and you can either sell it to Ruth collectors of Goudey set builders. Some of his other cards don't have the set builder base to appeal to.

One thing to consider is there is virtually always a cost to selling. If you are considering buying for investment, you are looking at 25% going to selling costs, so you have to realize that much growth before you "start making money." There's a couple ways to get around that...finding a buy that is better than expected or a seller who will pay work with a thinner margin.
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  #22  
Old 11-23-2019, 10:46 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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I'd have to go with the ones others have already suggested.

The Goudey Ruths are nice cards, and appreciate fairly well.
When I started a typical one was around 100, but I'm kinda old... And got in just before the prices really jumped in the 80's.

That's if you want a card to collect that will be reasonably stable pricewise. They tend to get more expensive as time goes by, but don't make any big jumps anymore.

If you want it as an investment...

As others have already said, there are much better investments out there. Aside from a brief period of time, and a few other specific instances*, few collectibles will outperform stocks.

* The 1980's were pretty amazing, cards went from almost a fringe hobby to mainstream then overproduced in less than a decade.
Other times things did well as investments were times particular things became popular. Like Caramel cards being sort of forgotten, then popular, and the prices went up quickly. If you can actually predict that stuff... keep it a closely guarded bit of info, and enjoy the benefits. (I'll be no help there, all the stuff I really like is usually not popular or valuable)
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  #23  
Old 11-23-2019, 11:04 PM
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I agree in that Ruth and Cobb cards exploded exponentially in "value" practically overnight a few years ago. Ruth strips went from a few hundred to over a thousand...as did many exhibits. Who knows whether manipulation was at play or whether more people realized how cool these cards are and went after them...who knows?

I think Ruth cards are as safe an investment as you can find. If I were looking to spend 5K for a ruth card...as my first and only...I'd first have to decide if I'm buying a card I love or one that I think would be a good investment over time.

I think a Goudey is a great starting point...but I personally prefer rarities...so I'd opt for the US caramel...it's a beautiful...color card of ruth(the vast majority of ruth cards are black and white) towards the end of his career.
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  #24  
Old 11-23-2019, 11:32 PM
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Theo-Others have made some excellent suggestions as to what would be a good card for you. I just wanted to add that regardless of the card you decide upon, the price you pay for the card is very important. You and a parent should compare prices amongst dealers and consider whether it might make sense to bid in a reputable auction. Although some of the cards are scarcer that others, none are rarities. Donít jump at the first one; make sure you buy intelligently. Negotiate price! If you donít feel comfortable doing this have a parent do it for you. I am in Pasadena and would be willing to meet with you and your parent if you feel additional input from an experienced collector would be useful. Otherwise, good luck!

Jay Miller
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:53 PM
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Agree on the 32/33 US Caramel as a nice pick. Also like 1921 or 26-29 exhibit pose. Or even a rare exhibit like the 1925 Champions one if you can find one.

Other than those maybe some other early issues. There's several poses in the 1922 E121-120 series that work. The 1921 E121-80 would be too pricey.

The 1922 W575-2 auto on shoulder series is another nice tough one. The National Caramel E220 is another great early one but would be out of range past a low grade 1 or authentic copy I'm afraid.

Good luck. I think rarer nice cards may be best bet for investment purposes but another idea may be a signed Ruth check.
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  #26  
Old 11-23-2019, 11:55 PM
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Also, location can make a difference when buying cards. I live in eastern Washington, which is very different than the Seattle area. Vintage card prices are cheaper in card shops in Spokane, WA, than in Seattle. This black Friday my local card shop is having a sale and i am looking at saving money on my purchase that i would not normally get.

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  #27  
Old 11-24-2019, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanksfan09 View Post
Agree on the 32/33 US Caramel as a nice pick. Also like 1921 or 26-29 exhibit pose. Or even a rare exhibit like the 1925 Champions one if you can find one.

Other than those maybe some other early issues. There's several poses in the 1922 E121-120 series that work. The 1921 E121-80 would be too pricey.

The 1922 W575-2 auto on shoulder series is another nice tough one. The National Caramel E220 is another great early one but would be out of range past a low grade 1 or authentic copy I'm afraid.

Good luck. I think rarer nice cards may be best bet for investment purposes but another idea may be a signed Ruth check.
Yes yes yes!!!!! The rarities I love the rarities and also I have grown to love the exhibits!! Great suggestions in the 21 and 25 champions exhibit both incredible cards the 25 pretty tough!!
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  #28  
Old 11-24-2019, 01:25 AM
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Or this



Or this



Or this



Really any great looking, early or iconic Ruth item is a better investment vs the more mainstream cards in my opinion.

Fun suggestions!

Theo - if you go a route like this, at an auction house, youíll need to brush up on rules, including if you need to bid on a certain item before ďextended biddingĒ in order to continue bidding on it, bid increments, what additional buyers fee (plus handling fees, etc.) there are and more. Not to mention that youíll need to set up an account with the auction house (typically abbreviated ďAHĒ in many posts). It is a different beast than eBay.

Good luck and most importantly, have fun!


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Old 11-24-2019, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
Theo-Others have made some excellent suggestions as to what would be a good card for you. I just wanted to add that regardless of the card you decide upon, the price you pay for the card is very important. You and a parent should compare prices amongst dealers and consider whether it might make sense to bid in a reputable auction. Although some of the cards are scarcer that others, none are rarities. Donít jump at the first one; make sure you buy intelligently. Negotiate price! If you donít feel comfortable doing this have a parent do it for you. I am in Pasadena and would be willing to meet with you and your parent if you feel additional input from an experienced collector would be useful. Otherwise, good luck!

Jay Miller
Theo,

This is great advice and an amazing offer from an extremely knowledgeable, wise gentleman. If you are even considering taking him up on his offer, I would encourage you to DO IT! Jay is extremely well respected and can be trusted, in my opinion. He will not steer you wrong.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Welcome!

Brian
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  #30  
Old 11-24-2019, 03:24 AM
KCRfan1 KCRfan1 is offline
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Given your age, what does your parent or parents think about this potential decision?
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  #31  
Old 11-24-2019, 08:34 AM
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$5 to spend at age 14? Good for you!

When I was 14, all I had was my paper route money. Much of that went to beer and cigarettes.
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  #32  
Old 11-24-2019, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
Welcome.

First of all, at your age, you should not be spending that kind of money on cards. During your teenage years, you should just focus on educating yourself on the hobby. I remember I used to have hobby magazines scattered all over my bed and I'd read the forums using my free dial-up Internet connection. I was like a sponge during those years; I just absorbed everything I could. By the time I was making money in my early twenties, I knew exactly what moves to make, and I didn't have to ask anyone for advice either. And yes, that's the second point I want to make, and that is never ask other people what to do with your money. If you find yourself doing that frequently, then it means you don't know much, and if you don't know much, then you definitely shouldn't be spending large amounts like that. Knowledge is power, my friend. Have fun learning about the hobby.
Ok, boomer. Maybe the kid is makign money? Dont have to be old to be rich.

How old should you be to buy pieces of cardboard ment for kids?

Last edited by itslarry; 11-24-2019 at 08:58 AM.
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  #33  
Old 11-24-2019, 09:20 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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if I have 60 years to invest. an index fund is a far better investment that follows the market.. I think if you invested 10,000, 40 years ago, and if you reinvested all dividends you make about 600k or something...wont get that with a ruth


plus if people have tons of money to invest in big time cards, there is an argument that the stock market would have to be doing really well for that as well.

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 11-24-2019 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:23 AM
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People! The kid asked for advice on buying a babe ruth card...not financial/estate planning advice! Not the best way to maximize his return on his 5K!

I might also suggest a decent babe ruth autographed ball as an alternative.
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
if I have 60 years to invest. an index fund is a far better investment that follows the market.. I think if you invested 10,000, 40 years ago, and if you reinvested all dividends you make about 600k or something...wont get that with a ruth


plus if people have tons of money to invest in big time cards, there is an argument that the stock market would have to be doing really well for that as well.
In 1986, you could have bought 3 52 Mantles from Rosen's find. What are they worth today? Don't you think if he has 5k today for a Ruth card, he may already be or soon be investing in other things too?
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:16 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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In 1986, you could have bought 3 52 Mantles from Rosen's find. What are they worth today? Don't you think if he has 5k today for a Ruth card, he may already be or soon be investing in other things too?
no idea..but you are saying from Rosen fine ..if you bought 3 1952 PSA 4 mantles, that wouldnt of outplayed the market in 40 years..

basically 99 percent of cards would not have outgained the market in 40 years with 5,000 dollars...... most of us dont have 40 years...he does..

plus they are tied together..if the market tanks....i imagine cards do as well or a large portion


i have met collectors with all of their savings into cards and nothing in traditional investments, i wouldnt assume anything

Its ok for risk i get it..but 99 percent versus 1 percent.....is a different story

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 11-24-2019 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:41 AM
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Normally I would agree with those saying the 33 Goudey but they have gone up in price considerably over the last two years. Those or the 21 exhibits are probably the safest investments.

If you want to take a shot at a nice return find an early 20s issue collectors aren't paying as much attention to and hold it for a few years. But you really can't go wrong with any Babe Ruth card long term.

I picked up this one a while back. Not really sure if the price has gone up much but it's a card I enjoy owning.
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:01 PM
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no idea..but you are saying from Rosen fine ..if you bought 3 1952 PSA 4 mantles, that wouldnt of outplayed the market in 40 years..

basically 99 percent of cards would not have outgained the market in 40 years with 5,000 dollars...... most of us dont have 40 years...he does..

plus they are tied together..if the market tanks....i imagine cards do as well or a large portion


i have met collectors with all of their savings into cards and nothing in traditional investments, i wouldnt assume anything

Its ok for risk i get it..but 99 percent versus 1 percent.....is a different story
Mantles from the Rosen find graded 8 to 10 and that was 33 years ago. 40 years ago Mantles were 375 in vg-ex and they certainly have performed well against the market. The 99% that haven't outgained the market are called commons and minor stars. Pretty much any name HOF RC or Superstar card has. 1933 Goudey Ruths were 55-65. The stock market average was 844 in 1979 to 26184 this year. That is an increase of 31 times.

No one knows what the future is going to be for stocks, collectibles or other investments. I agree it is good to have a diversified portfolio. At this point 5k for some one 50+ years from retirement shouldn't be a big deal.
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:20 PM
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Mantles from the Rosen find graded 8 to 10 and that was 33 years ago. 40 years ago Mantles were 375 in vg-ex and they certainly have performed well against the market. The 99% that haven't outgained the market are called commons and minor stars. Pretty much any name HOF RC or Superstar card has. 1933 Goudey Ruths were 55-65. The stock market average was 844 in 1979 to 26184 this year. That is an increase of 31 times.

No one knows what the future is going to be for stocks, collectibles or other investments. I agree it is good to have a diversified portfolio. At this point 5k for some one 50+ years from retirement shouldn't be a big deal.
There are dividends collected and reinvested on the stocks though, not the cards...you are making far more than 31 times..and again if the market tanks so do the cards..

on 10,000 in 1979 on an index dow fund you would have far more than 31x, you would have over 600,000.. so thats 60x.. correct me if im wrong

buying a PSA 5-6 1933 goudey ruth with 10,0000 and getting into the market for 35 years on an index fund. ill take my chances on the stock being $500,000 versus the ruth from this point on..

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Old 11-24-2019, 01:44 PM
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Old 11-24-2019, 04:08 PM
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There are dividends collected and reinvested on the stocks though, not the cards...you are making far more than 31 times..and again if the market tanks so do the cards..

on 10,000 in 1979 on an index dow fund you would have far more than 31x, you would have over 600,000.. so thats 60x.. correct me if im wrong

buying a PSA 5-6 1933 goudey ruth with 10,0000 and getting into the market for 35 years on an index fund. ill take my chances on the stock being $500,000 versus the ruth from this point on..
I really don't know where you got the 600k from, but I hope you realize that the Ruths would be worth in excess of a million dollars. You would have received a much higher return if you had invested in higher grade cards.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:52 PM
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1933 Goudey Ruths were 55-65.
If they were, I'd probably have one. They were usually 100 unless they were really bad or really nice. The shop near me as far as I can recall didn't get any really bad ones. (late 77 through mid 81 I was there almost every week, often multiple days- it was on the way home from school.)
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:13 AM
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As others have said, a nice Goudey Ruth would be a good investment. However, at 14 yrs old I would probably diversify a bit and not have all of my eggs in one basket (assuming the 5k is the budget.) But the main thing would be to take your time and know what you are buying. AND don't just rely on a slabbed card. Make sure it meets the characteristics of others in the set. And remember, the hunt can be a LOT of the fun.

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Hello everyone!

I am a new collector - I am 14 years old.
I am very interested in obtaining a Babe Ruth card for an investment.
What is the best Babe Ruth card to invest in for less than $5,000?

Go Dodgers!

Thanks,
Theo Tobel
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:23 AM
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For one Ruth, I would go with whichever 33 Goudey you like the best. It's hard to imagine a more classic baseball card.
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Old 11-25-2019, 01:11 PM
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That is very thoughtful of you Jay!
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Old 11-25-2019, 04:47 PM
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You can also go for less expensive and more quantities of Ruth... 1952 Look N See, 54 Scoops, the 61 Babe Ruth Topps subset, 73 and 74 Topps inserts of Ruth, 48 Leaf...All less expensive and available in higher grade for the money...
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Old 11-25-2019, 05:38 PM
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Go big or go home kid...if you have the cash to pull off a 1933 Goudey in that price range it means your parents are involved in making the deal. Safe to assume there is plenty more from where that came from so enjoy your big purchase and let your parents worry about your “diversified” portfolio.

Too young to worry about investments. Just collect. Don’t let the old tight asses sway you away from cards.

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Old 11-25-2019, 05:44 PM
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Plus donít go for these quirky unpopular cards of Ruth. Go for the Goudey. This is not the time to be conservative. Your parents are letting you spend $5,000. Take it and run. Enjoy the popular card. Youíll remember this for the rest of your life.
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Old 11-25-2019, 06:58 PM
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You can also go for less expensive and more quantities of Ruth... 1952 Look N See, 54 Scoops, the 61 Babe Ruth Topps subset, 73 and 74 Topps inserts of Ruth, 48 Leaf...All less expensive and available in higher grade for the money...
NONONONONONONO! Period Ruth or GO HOME!!!!
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:35 PM
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I'd say definitely NOT a photograph. Prices are high now, and there is a reason every auction is stacked with them. You could barely give these away for years. Maybe the hobby is maturing, I dont buy it, or them.


Steer clear of exhibits and postcards. Also, never paid much attention too until the last few years. They were never looked at as being as desirable as a gum or candy card. Prices have really taken off. Full size photos, I get it, but the old man in me wont bend to these new trends.

Strip cards, yuck.

Go with the nicest Goudey or maybe even a Sports King Ruth you can afford, and enjoy it.
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