Is CC Sabathia a Hall of Famer?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Surprised Jorge Posada wasn't enshrined. Chris Chambliss and Bernie Williams too.

Willie Randolph. The obvious one, Mattingly.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Willie Randolph. The obvious one, Mattingly.

What about Munson or Maris?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

What about Munson or Maris?

Ah right. Lots of Yankees on that list of guys people want to see in.
Of them all, I would only agree with Mattingly.

[GaryPassamonte]

Prediction-Kershaw will be a first ballot HOFer. He has been a dominant superstar by any measure. Sabathia will eventually get in. He is basically a compiler, but was dominant at times earlier in his career.
Also, 3000 strikeouts will eventually lose its ring just as 500 HRs has.
225 will probably end up being the new 300.

[packs]

Not really sure why people don't think another pitcher will win 300 games. Randy Johnson won 300 games after he turned 25 years old. He's obviously one of the greatest pitchers of all time, but so are the majority of people who won 300 games.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Not really sure why people don't think another pitcher will win 300 games. Randy Johnson won 300 games after he turned 25 years old. He's obviously one of the greatest pitchers of all time, but so are the majority of people who won 300 games.

Johnson had a very unusual career trajectory. And I think the trend over time is going to be towards shorter starts meaning fewer decisions.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by packs

Not really sure why people don't think another pitcher will win 300 games. Randy Johnson won 300 games after he turned 25 years old. He's obviously one of the greatest pitchers of all time, but so are the majority of people who won 300 games.

Simple answer. MLB Baseball has turned a starting pitcher into a 6 inning pitcher. The less a pitcher “hangs around”, the less likely his chances are to claim a victory.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Willie Randolph. The obvious one, Mattingly.

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

What about Munson or Maris?

None of these. And if I could, I would kick out a dozen of the marginal players that keep guys like Mattingly in the conversation. He was good, he wasn't great. Just good isn't good enough for even the Hall of Very Good.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by bounce

None of these. And if I could, I would kick out a dozen of the marginal players that keep guys like Mattingly in the conversation. He was good, he wasn't great. Just good isn't good enough for even the Hall of Very Good.

I posted Munson & Maris to counter the mindset that if any player wore the pinstripes he has an edge to Cooperstown.
There are alot of marginal Yankees that aren't in & have no advantage because they played in the Bronx.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

I posted Munson & Maris to counter the mindset that if any player wore the pinstripes he has an edge to Cooperstown.
There are alot of marginal Yankees that aren't in & have no advantage because they played in the Bronx.

Does Rizzuto get in playing for Phila/KC, or the Browns/Orioles?

Is Munson even in the conversation if he played for Cleveland or Detroit?

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Does Rizzuto get in playing for Phila/KC, or the Browns/Orioles?

I always suspected that Rizzuto got in because Pee Wee Reese was already in.
Rizzuto had a higher BA & won an MVP & was every bit the contemporary.
Would Reese be in if he played w/ the Phillies, Indian's or A's?

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

I always suspected that Rizzuto got in because Pee Wee Reese was already in.
Rizzuto had a higher BA & won an MVP & was every bit the contemporary.
Would Reese be in if he played w/ the Phillies, Indian's or A's?

I never saw either play, but statistically there is no comparison. Reese was far better than Rizzuto in almost every respect, while Rizzuto played for a more dominant team. I don't think that particular comparison is even very close.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

I always suspected that Rizzuto got in because Pee Wee Reese was already in.
Rizzuto had a higher BA & won an MVP & was every bit the contemporary.
Would Reese be in if he played w/ the Phillies, Indian's or A's?

Rizzuto couldn't hold Pee Wee's Jock. He was the third best NY Short Stop, just Alvin Dark didn't play his whole career with the Giants.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Willie Randolph. The obvious one, Mattingly.

Mattingly, yes....Randolph, no....Just my opinion

[bounce]

Sabathia is an absolute yes for HOF to me. Maybe not first ballot, but he definitely gets in.

In some sense he was a compiler, yes, with only one 20 win season. Yes, the ERA is a little "thick" but he also pitched virtually his entire career in the AL (ex the Milwaukee stint where he went 11-2 with a 1.65 ERA), including through the back half of the steroid era.

Pretty likable guy, seems like a pretty good teammate and he's definitely a gamer.

Being a lefty helps the case, but he seems like a pretty easy choice to me.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Mattingly, yes....Randolph, no....Just my opinion

advanced metrics like Randolph better believe it or not.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

advanced metrics like Randolph better believe it or not.

No offense Scott, then obviously the metrics SUCK

[CMIZ5290]

This shit about WAR and metrics just blows me away. If you were in game 7 of the World Series, bases loaded and down by two and two outs, who would you rather have at bat? Mattingly or Willie Randolph? This is just crazy, no contest

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

but you don't choose the HOF on one at bat you choose it on a body of work.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

but you don't choose the HOF on one at bat you choose it on a body of work.

So....Randolph and Mattingly are the exact same age, you can get either one of them for the same price. You dont need any positional needs, so you are simply going with the player.....Who do you take?

[packs]

Give me a break. Randolph never had a season like Mattingly did in 1986 and that's not even the season he won the MVP. The distance between them is huge in my opinion. If not for his injuries, Mattingly would be the guy everyone compared Pujols to.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Mattingly, yes....Randolph, no....Just my opinion

FWIW Hall of Stats has Randolph about 50 points higher than Mattingly, who is by their standards utterly mediocre.