You just wont believe it!

batsballsbases · #1 02-11-2012, 10:04 AM

Yesterday I was peacefully searching thru Net54 on my favorite Memorabilia side and what did I see an endless sea of posts all about bad autographs. One after the other on and on they went. Babe Ruth,Cy Young, Ali,Smokin Joe, the list was endless. All the "EXPERTS" spouting gospel about why the autograph is bad "look at the up hill writing" "look at how the ink is to dark " Oh look at that Babe Ruth wait I will show another that is worse ! Wait I have one a 4 year old did. Wait I now have one signed by babe who was dead at the time. Then you have the autograph freebie boys Can you tell me if this basketball is good? can you tell me if this boxing glove is top notch? All of a sudden my computer started to shake!!! A huge bad autograph HAIR BALL all wraped up with EXPERTS COAs came spewing out! Then POOF Net 54 crashed!!!! Smoke billowed out of my computer! I shut it down and all yesterday I said to myself I will let you rest! Awoke this morning to a new day! The net was back up! Yeah I screamed! Then the sickness came back! More idiot autograph posts again and again. This could go on forever so guys the moral of the story is ENOUGH! We get it Autographs are bad ! Dont put money into them ! If you want to talk about this over and over again there is a section called the water cooler talk go there! Give the memorabilia section back to what it really is for. You beat this dead horse to death and then some! Let it die with dignity.

slidekellyslide · #2 02-11-2012, 10:22 AM

Al, as a non-autograph collector myself I tend to agree there is too much here on the memorabilia board, but I in no way want to ban autograph discussions from this section because they do IMO fall under memorabilia...it's up to the non-auto collectors to fight back by starting new and interesting threads to push the auto guys down to the bottom.

I've had many of the non-auto collectors PM or email me about this issue, and this is the same reply I give to them. Unfortunately some of them have chosen to leave or lurk only.

GrayGhost · #3 02-11-2012, 10:27 AM

It's BACKKKK

Leon · #4 02-11-2012, 10:28 AM

I go through the same thing on the card side concerning t206s. I say the same thing Dan does in response to them. All you have to do is start threads that aren't about autographs. Some choose to, some choose not to. regards

David Atkatz · #5 02-11-2012, 10:34 AM

Let me ask you, Al. Do you think this side of the board should be reserved for posting photos of one's new _______ (postcard, trophy, pennant, figural, ashtray, tie rack, advertising piece, ...) followed by a series of back-patting replies ("Nice one!", "Good score!", "Congrats!", "Had my eye on that one!", etc.)?

That's what a lot of us autograph collectors see, and it's just as boring to us as the autograph discussions (well, OK, arguments) are to you.

There's room enough here for all.

Tomman1961 · #6 02-11-2012, 10:39 AM

Batsballsbases- I like your comment-don't put money into them. I have only autographs that I received when I was in front of the player as he signed. I picked up this mentality way back in 1974 when I was 13 years old. My cousin and I sent letters to Hank Aaron for his siggy. They looked great. Actually, they looked exactly the same. Rubber stamp. I know that is a whole lot different than a forgery. But it was then that I did not want to ever buy an autograph. Wow. Did I continue the rant. Sorry. I agree with the post.

Runscott · #7 02-11-2012, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Let me ask you, Al. Do you think this side of the board should be reserved for posting photos of one's new _______ (postcard, trophy, pennant, figural, ashtray, tie rack, advertising piece, ...) followed by a series of back-patting replies ("Nice one!", "Good score!", "Congrats!", "Had my eye on that one!", etc.)?

That's what a lot of us autograph collectors see, and it's just as boring to us as the autograph discussions (well, OK, arguments) are to you.

David, Al is just practicing his creative writing skills.

Al - use your skills to combat evil, not autograph collectors.

batsballsbases · #8 02-11-2012, 11:02 AM

Just wanted to get a response. Moral of my story is guys I have no problem about autographs JUST NOT SO MANY POSTS.

thenavarro · #9 02-11-2012, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Let me ask you, Al. Do you think this side of the board should be reserved for posting photos of one's new _______ (postcard, trophy, pennant, figural, ashtray, tie rack, advertising piece, ...) followed by a series of back-patting replies ("Nice one!", "Good score!", "Congrats!", "Had my eye on that one!", etc.)?

That's what a lot of us autograph collectors see, and it's just as boring to us as the autograph discussions (well, OK, arguments) are to you.

There's room enough here for all.

Well put David,

Mike

batsballsbases · #10 02-11-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Let me ask you, Al. Do you think this side of the board should be reserved for posting photos of one's new _______ (postcard, trophy, pennant, figural, ashtray, tie rack, advertising piece, ...) followed by a series of back-patting replies ("Nice one!", "Good score!", "Congrats!", "Had my eye on that one!", etc.)?

That's what a lot of us autograph collectors see, and it's just as boring to us as the autograph discussions (well, OK, arguments) are to you.

There's room enough here for all.

David my friend You left out pins.

mjkm90 · #11 02-11-2012, 11:27 AM

I have no issue with autographs being discussed as long as there are MORE posts about GOOD autographs than bad. There are hundreds of bad pins, pennants, and ad pieces on ebay every day, but the board doesn't get cluttered with them. Granted, I don't read the posts I'm not interested in, but these posts push those centered on legit pieces off the page quickly.

If the "spirit" of these posts is supposed to center around "public service", why not add a forgery alert section for the Coaches Corner type discussions?

HRBAKER · #12 02-11-2012, 11:30 AM

Gray Ghost,

As this is a vintage board:

sayhey24 · #13 02-11-2012, 11:53 AM

Very well said in your original post Al. Mike H. makes a great point too, about fakes not just being limited to autographs.
I think most memorabilia collectors are sick of the constant threads about the latest Mantle/Jeter/Dimaggio bad autograph on ebay -- we get it!

That said, there are some interesting autograph threads that deal with big picture issues that certainly do belong on this board.

Greg

batsballsbases · #14 02-11-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Al, as a non-autograph collector myself I tend to agree there is too much here on the memorabilia board, but I in no way want to ban autograph discussions from this section because they do IMO fall under memorabilia...it's up to the non-auto collectors to fight back by starting new and interesting threads to push the auto guys down to the bottom.

I've had many of the non-auto collectors PM or email me about this issue, and this is the same reply I give to them. Unfortunately some of them have chosen to leave or lurk only.

Hi Dan,
Just wanted to clear up something I never said Ban it. It doesnt say that anywhere it the post. All I said was if you want to continue to talk about this issue take it over to the water cooler side of the forum then you all can beat each other to death over there and no one would care.

Scott F.
At least when I open my mouth I try and say something "Creative" Then to open my mouth and have flies come out! Yah Know.

David Atkatz · #15 02-11-2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

David my friend You left out pins.

Oops!

David Atkatz · #16 02-11-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjkm90

If the "spirit" of these posts is supposed to center around "public service", why not add a forgery alert section for the Coaches Corner type discussions?

+1

Leon · #17 02-11-2012, 12:49 PM

Lest we forget we have lots of newbies who have been saved by these threads in which "everyone already knows".

batsballsbases · #18 02-11-2012, 01:05 PM

Leon,
You are right but I cant stand when "newbies" come on and ask is this autograph good? Does this look real? Isnt that what Richard and others get paid for? And I dont blame them for not answering back. But then all the "experts" come out of the woodwork offering up thier opinion on it. So now lets say the person goes and buys it based off of what is said here,and the item turns out BAD. Are any of these " experts" going to give this poor guy his money back? Based on thier opinion! I think not. And that is why it can be dangerous to look at an item for 2 minutes and give an opinion. Look at poor Dave and the Babe Ruth Ball had it for over 10 years to now come and find out that it isnt worth a hill of spit! And Dave my friend arnt you suppose to be one of those experts. And Im not saying that in the wrong way Im saying even the best can be taken it. Have been and will continue to be.

David Atkatz · #19 02-11-2012, 01:20 PM

I don't want to call myself an "expert." Let's just say I have a lot of experience. (Obtained my first Ruth autograph in 1965, my first Gehrig in '66. Here they are--and they are both good.

)

Was I fooled by that '27 ball? Yes I was. So was Jimmy Spence. So were two top collectors and a dealer who wanted to buy it from me. Everyone makes mistakes.

But if one sells his "expertise," one should be held accountable.

mjkm90 · #20 02-11-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Lest we forget we have lots of newbies who have been saved by these threads in which "everyone already knows".

Leon, Leon, Leon...you are better than that fella! Don't let this turn into Angies List. All of this could be rectified with the addition of the forgery alert section. That way the newbies can EASILY find what they need and will be protected. Don't make it hard on them and punish the rest of us.

I have confidence in you Leon...you ARE the man who can get this done

GKreindler · #21 02-11-2012, 01:34 PM

All other things considered, David, I still LOVE that Gehrig photo. What a fun painting that would make.

You've got a winner!

batsballsbases · #22 02-11-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I don't want to call myself an "expert." Let's just say I have a lot of experience. (Obtained my first Ruth autograph in 1965, my first Gehrig in '66. Here they are--and they are both good.

)

Was I fooled by that '27 ball? Yes I was. So was Jimmy Spence. So were two top collectors and a dealer who wanted to buy it from me. Everyone makes mistakes.

But if one sells his "expertise," one should be held accountable.

David,
That is exactly what I was trying to say. And believe me I know you have great knowledge when it comes to yankee items. I always said your collection is second to none when it comes to this. You said it yourself you were fooled,spence was fooled , lets say some of the best were fooled so what chance do some of the novice collectors have when even the best get fooled! But your last line is the best If someone sells his "Expertise" one should be held accountable. Absolutely right but sad fact watch all the experts run for cover when they have to open up thier wallets! Did any of the experts offer you your money back? I rest my case!

David Atkatz · #23 02-11-2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKreindler

All other things considered, David, I still LOVE that Gehrig photo. What a fun painting that would make.

You've got a winner!

Thanks, Graig. How backed up are you? If I put in my order now, and start saving, perhaps I'll be able to pay you by the time you get to it.

HRBAKER · #24 02-11-2012, 02:44 PM

But if one sells his "expertise," one should be held accountable.

Amen and amen. +100

Leon · #25 02-11-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjkm90

Leon, Leon, Leon...you are better than that fella! Don't let this turn into Angies List. All of this could be rectified with the addition of the forgery alert section. That way the newbies can EASILY find what they need and will be protected. Don't make it hard on them and punish the rest of us.

I have confidence in you Leon...you ARE the man who can get this done

I have thought about all different kinds of scenarios for different sub-forums. Until this front page gets overrun, or any other forums where there are too many threads do, I don't see it happening. I have given it thought but just don't think it's that bad yet or see an overwhelming need. As an overriding rule of thumb I don't like splitting up sections/forums too much. I will always listen to thoughts though....

GKreindler · #26 02-11-2012, 05:03 PM

Hey David,

I think as of now, I'm about 2 to 2 1/2 years out? I look at the to-do list on my wall, and it seems to be a bit shorter than I thought. Dean might know better than me, though, as he always has something sinister brewing. Well, not sinister, but intense.

Graig

mjkm90 · #27 02-11-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I have thought about all different kinds of scenarios for different sub-forums. Until this front page gets overrun, or any other forums where there are too many threads, I don't see it happening. I have given it thought but just don't think it's that bad yet or see an overwhelming need. As an overriding rule of thumb I don't like splitting up sections/forums too much. I will always listen to thoughts though....

I appreciate your eagerness to listen Leon. Nuf Ced...for now

Runscott · #28 02-11-2012, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Hi Dan,
Just wanted to clear up something I never said Ban it. It doesnt say that anywhere it the post. All I said was if you want to continue to talk about this issue take it over to the water cooler side of the forum then you all can beat each other to death over there and no one would care.

Scott F.
At least when I open my mouth I try and say something "Creative" Then to open my mouth and have flies come out! Yah Know.

Al, I would put your original thread in the "flies" category, as well as this one. But you have posted some interesting pin stuff.

Runscott · #29 02-11-2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Leon,
You are right but I cant stand when "newbies" come on and ask is this autograph good? Does this look real? Isnt that what Richard and others get paid for? And I dont blame them for not answering back. But then all the "experts" come out of the woodwork offering up thier opinion on it. So now lets say the person goes and buys it based off of what is said here,and the item turns out BAD. Are any of these " experts" going to give this poor guy his money back? Based on thier opinion! I think not. And that is why it can be dangerous to look at an item for 2 minutes and give an opinion. Look at poor Dave and the Babe Ruth Ball had it for over 10 years to now come and find out that it isnt worth a hill of spit! And Dave my friend arnt you suppose to be one of those experts. And Im not saying that in the wrong way Im saying even the best can be taken it. Have been and will continue to be.

Man, we're just discussing stuff. This is a discussion forum. If the professional authenticators don't want to chime in, there's not much for the rest of us to do except exchange our own insights regarding items that we want to discuss. If you don't like it, go start a thread for yourself and the other pin-heads. And no one has declared themselves an "expert" - you're the one tossing that word around.

It's Saturday - go have a beer and chill out.

batsballsbases · #30 02-11-2012, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Al, I would put your original thread in the "flies" category, as well as this one. But you have posted some interesting pin stuff.

Scott,
Why dont you take you holier than thou attitude and glory monger I need to get in the last word and stick it where the sun dont shine you assh0l@@.
Everyone knows what you are but I guess your the only one who is clueless.

Runscott · #31 02-11-2012, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Scott,
Why dont you take you holier than thou attitude and glory monger I need to get in the last word and stick it where the sun dont shine you assh0l@@.
Everyone knows what you are but I guess your the only one who is clueless.

You came in and started a thread taking a shot at some of us, and you expect us to just lay back and take it? If you had the ability to carry on a discussion without being foul-mouthed, I might be willing to keep playing with you. Go back to your pins, I have no further use for you.

batsballsbases · #32 02-11-2012, 07:48 PM

Scott,
As I have had no use for you ever since you proclaimed yourself T206 god. Go back to your little website and you can put your name on it like you do and blow your horn that your the best! What a sad sack of crap you must be. Go back to the card site where you think you know it all and talk your crap over there. Have no use for you what a joke! Come on now get in the last word you know you have to .

Runscott · #33 02-11-2012, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Scott,
As I have had no use for you ever since you porclaimed yourself T206 god. Go back to your little website and you can put your name on it like you do and blow your horn that your the best! What a sad sack of crap you must be. Go back to the card site where you think you know it all and talk your crap over there. Have no use for you what a joke! Come on now get in the last work you know you have to .

Here, this might help: Possible solution for Al's problem

smotan_02 · #34 02-11-2012, 08:03 PM

This is pretty sad. This forum was suppose to be the gentleman's forum over the bar room brawls that happen in the Collector's Universe Forum.

batsballsbases · #35 02-11-2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Here, this might help: Possible solution for Al's problem

Scott,
To bad your such an dic@ and you know what they say when one (Girl) I mean man has to talk about another mans organ! Well I guess we have to get out the magnifying glass to see yours. Oh and by the way if your refering to yourself as one of the experts the only expert you are is being a dic@.

batsballsbases · #36 02-11-2012, 08:13 PM

Scotty,
Your right but it just goes to show if hes one of the Experts as he claims to be would you buy anything from him after reading his posts. Acts like a 2 year old who got beaten as a kid!

Runscott · #37 02-11-2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Scott,
To bad your such an dic@ and you know what they say when one (Girl) I mean man has to talk about another mans organ! Well I guess we have to get out the magnifying glass to see yours. Oh and by the way if your refering to yourself as one of the experts the only expert you are is being a dic@.

dica?

To the rest of you: this really isn't so bad. The thread was worthless to begin with, and the owner of the thread is the one who's completely trashed it. It's easy enough to ignore. Anyone who's still reading it is either entertained or a masochist. I think I'm a little of both.

Runscott · #38 02-11-2012, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Scotty,
Your right but it just goes to show if hes one of the Experts as he claims to be would you buy anything from him after reading his posts. Acts like a 2 year old who got beaten as a kid!

Al, drop the dribble and go answer my bat question. Seriously, I don't know you from Adam. I don't dislike you - I just think you enjoy flaming people on the internet. That's a world-wide phenomenon - no biggy.

Also, I haven't claimed to be an expert at anything. If you want me to, I'll give it some thought, but I don't know anything about pins, so doubtful I have any knowledge that would interest you. My bat question is even probably very elementary.

batsballsbases · #39 02-11-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

dica?

To the rest of you: this really isn't so bad. The thread was worthless to begin with, and the owner of the thread is the one who's completely trashed it. It's easy enough to ignore. Anyone who's still reading it is either entertained or a masochist. I think I'm a little of both.

If its so worthless than why did you get involved? why didnt you just ignore it yourself. Most people ignore you anyway. You know you like to be the center of attention and this is your way of getting it. Keep posting Scott people love seeing you make more of a fool of yourself.

Runscott · #40 02-11-2012, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

why didnt you just ignore it yourself.

Definitely should have. I guess it's because you were attacking our right to express ourselves in a discussion forum, and I was bored.

As an aside, it sounds like you have a hard-on for me, based on the fact that I have a website and I express my opinion. I have a solution for you: express your opinion and build a website.

Good night.

batsballsbases · #41 02-11-2012, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Al, drop the dribble and go answer my bat question. Seriously, I don't know you from Adam. I don't dislike you - I just think you enjoy flaming people on the internet. That's a world-wide phenomenon - no biggy.

Also, I haven't claimed to be an expert at anything. If you want me to, I'll give it some thought, but I don't know anything about pins, so doubtful I have any knowledge that would interest you. My bat question is even probably very elementary.

Nor do I know you but you always seem to have a very holier than thou attitude when it comes to talking to people. Lose it Scott than maybe we can have a decent conversation about something. As for your bat I have never claimed to know anything about bats. My field of knowledge as most people on this board know is with Pins , vintage photographs, and cards 1950-1980. I rarely ever comment on t cards as my knowledge is limited,as I dont collect them and dont care about them. But when someone wants to push my buttons get ready I can push back just like you. So here is the deal be civil and stop with your little digs and jabs and maybe ignore me and my posts as I have tried to ignore you and yours. If not this will go on forever. O.K?

Runscott · #42 02-11-2012, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Nor do I know you but you always seem to have a very holier than thou attitude when it comes to talking to people. Lose it Scott than maybe we can have a decent conversation about something. As for your bat I have never claimed to know anything about bats. My field of knowledge as most people on this board know is with Pins , vintage photographs, and cards 1950-1980. I rarely ever comment on t cards as my knowledge is limited,as I dont collect them and dont care about them. But when someone wants to push my buttons get ready I can push back just like you. So here is the deal be civil and stop with your little digs and jabs and maybe ignore me and my posts as I have tried to ignore you and yours. If not this will go on forever. O.K?

It's okay if it goes on forever.

batsballsbases · #43 02-11-2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

It's okay if it goes on forever.

See Scott this is whats wrong with you. All you had to do was say O.K. I will pray for you Scott I really will.

slidekellyslide · #44 02-11-2012, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

It's okay if it goes on forever.

No it isn't...take it to PM or email.

batsballsbases · #45 02-11-2012, 08:53 PM

Thanks Dan. Al

Ulidia · #46 02-12-2012, 05:04 AM

As a regular "lurker" who doesn't collect autographs, I don't have any issue whatsoever with multiple threads on autographs and whether they are real or fake or multiple threads on the accuracy, or otherwise, of autograph authentication by the "alphabet guys".

There are clearly significant issues being played out in the memorabilia hobby relating to autographs and other collectables, what's authentic or not, which authenicators are good, which are bad and which are just downright fraudulent. Given that these issues potentially have wide-ranging implications, not only for autographs but the wider memorabilia industry, it's right and normal that these issues are discussed, albeit it may sometimes feel like groundhog day.

What I don't like are the personality clashes that seem to be the impetus behind some of the threads / posts which distract from real and serious issues and equally distract from the incredible knowledge and experience that many of these contributors clearly have.

As I've said, I don't collect autographs but, if I did, I'd be wary posting on some of the autograph threads for fear of being caught in the crossfire.

Tigerden · #47 02-12-2012, 07:19 AM

Al- I love the N.Y. Yankee Bombers pin. Too busy drooling over that one to pay too much interest in the spat with Scott.

batsballsbases · #48 02-12-2012, 07:28 AM

Thanks Adam. I have to be careful with my thanks or I will be accused of being a back patter around here!

Scott Garner · #49 02-12-2012, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Thanks Adam. I have to be careful with my thanks or I will be accused of being a back patter around here!

Geez, what's wrong with being a "back patter"? One of the most fun aspects of the hobby is sharing cool items with others that have similar interests.
I'm just sayin'......

slidekellyslide · #50 02-12-2012, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Geez, what's wrong with being a "back patter"? One of the most fun aspects of the hobby is sharing cool items with others that have similar interests.
I'm just sayin'......

Amen..I wouldn't be in this class if it didn't have show and tell.