Barry Halper and the such...

[GKreindler]

Hey all,

I was wondering if anyone knows of a database containing info on all of the known fake uniforms found in the Halper collection. I use Nash's website a lot, and it's been a HUGE help in that regard, but I was wondering what other resources there were out there in the land of the Interwebs.

For my own reference, I'm just trying to make notes on those fake uniforms so I don't absolutely rely on them for my paintings. Through some digging (and memory), I know that these aren't the real deal:

1880s Buck Ewing road jersey
1894 Wilbert Robinson home jersey
1905 Joe McGinnity road jersey
1905 John McGraw WS jersey
1914 Babe Ruth road jersey
1919 Joe Jackson WS road jersey
1951 Mickey Mantle road #6 jersey

Are there any that I'm missing? What about other 19th century ones (1888 Cap Anson, 1892 Delahanty, etc.)? And, is it possible that these were real jerseys from those teams, just not from the purported players?

Of course, this thread was in no way constructed to say anything bad about Halper or those who represented him and his collection, but I would like to be as historically accurate as possible when it comes to my own research material. Damn you, obsessions!

Anywho, any help you guys can provide is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Graig

[slidekellyslide]

I don't think I'd use anything related to Halper's collection if you're going for historical accuracy. The only items I think I'd trust are ones that came to market straight from family. That's probably more limited in what you need though. You may have to trust your gut and go with what makes you comfortable.

edited to add: I don't know of any database for the bad items in Halper's collection.

[BigJJ]

Graig, I was informed that Halper may have purchased a good number of the bad 19th century jerseys from the same source. Rob L might assist you with regard to which ones may be considered in the bad column. I was the underbidder on the William Hoy; have always wondered if that was good or no; I did not have the knowledge then that I have today. I agree with the above and would not use any 19th century jerseys from the sale as reference, without additional information. J

[GKreindler]

Thanks so much for the replies, guys.

It's funny that you mentioned the Hoy jersey, JJ - I was actually looking at that yesterday right before I posted this thread. I wondered whether it could have been a fake or not. I guess I wasn't the only one.

I guess in the end, it'll be good to do my due diligence when it comes to this sort of research. It's a shame that I can't trust all of the Halper material as I did when I first purchased those catalogs (I was a bit too young when the auctions themselves came around). All that glitters is not gold?

The question is, when will Okkonen do a book on 19th century uniforms?

Thanks again,

Graig

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by GKreindler

Thanks so much for the replies, guys.

It's funny that you mentioned the Hoy jersey, JJ - I was actually looking at that yesterday right before I posted this thread. I wondered whether it could have been a fake or not. I guess I wasn't the only one.

I guess in the end, it'll be good to do my due diligence when it comes to this sort of research. It's a shame that I can't trust all of the Halper material as I did when I first purchased those catalogs (I was a bit too young when the auctions themselves came around). All that glitters is not gold?

The question is, when will Okkonen do a book on 19th century uniforms?

Thanks again,

Graig

A book on 19th century uniforms would be impossible I think...it's more of a guessing game. My mother makes folk art style baseball player dolls for me and has made a few 19th century players. I always have to tell her what the uniform colors should look like and I just go by any period color lithography that I can find.

[BigJJ]

Originally Posted by GKreindler

The question is, when will Okkonen do a book on 19th century uniforms?

Leon, another assignment for the Net 54 intern.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

A book on 19th century uniforms would be impossible I think...it's more of a guessing game. My mother makes folk art style baseball player dolls for me and has made a few 19th century players. I always have to tell her what the uniform colors should look like and I just go by any period color lithography that I can find.

I'd be happy for one done in Black and White. Wasn't that how everything looked until about 1900 anyway? That's how it looks in all the photographs I've seen...

"But what about Sepia?" you say. "Surely there was Brown in the world too?" Fool! Sepia photographs were nothing but an elaborate hoax foisted on a dull Gray world hungry for any sign of Color. What you now see as "sepia photographs" are the remnants of an attempt by crafty fishmongers to artificially inflate the cuttlefish market. Look it up!

[bmarlowe1]

In the StL Cardinals Encyclopedia by Broeg and Vickery there is an Okkonen style color rendition of the uniforms for the StL AA/NL franchise from 1882 onwards. The ones I was able to verify looked right - though some may have been a year off.

[GKreindler]

Mark,

That's awesomeness - I'll have to pick that one up at some point. Thanks for the info!

Graig