Problems with VCP and the Hobby

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by drcy

I doubt that many to most auction houses would be willing to give out which lots were paid for and which not, which were sold to second place bidders, etc. 1) It's internal business and 2) it's extra work for no pay. I doubt that after a long day's work, an auctioneer, database manager or accountant says "Hey, let's crunch more numbers for free."

And I hate to say it, but it's in the AH's interest for people to think the sale was real.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And I hate to say it, but it's in the AH's interest for people to think the sale was real.

Exactly. Very good for business and brings in loads of consignments. Smoke and mirrors.

[Snapolit1]

A rising tide lifts all PSA 9s and Gem Mint 10s.

[tschock]

All PSA 9s are equal, but some are more equal than others.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by tschock

All PSA 9s are equal, but some are more equal than others.

To quote Bachman, Turner, Overdrive.....Down, Down, we all go down!

[Donscards]

This topic is very interesting, I am a old timer---I started with flea markets and small shows in 1977---In those days, we didn't even have a beckett--what we went by was our knowledge of the hobby---We knew what cards were hot and went with our instincts. Times have changed---now it is VCP--Ebay--Auctions--etc---Nobody uses Beckett and even the smr is outdated the minute it comes out.---Now when I have to make a sale, the buyer uses his iphone or ipad before he pulls the trigger. Boy, for the Good old days----oh well, this hobby has treated me well and it still a lot of fun (most of the time).

[Jewish-collector]

As Tom Cruise in Risky Business said, "Sometimes you gotta say WTF"

[steve B]

Originally Posted by botn

Exactly. Very good for business and brings in loads of consignments. Smoke and mirrors.

I looked for it a bit, but I saw an auction catalog in another hobby that was primarily stuff that hadn't been paid for over the last several auctions. The intro was pretty harsh, not undeserved just a bit surprising.

I'll have another look for it and see if I can't find the catalog online.

Steve B

[Exhibitman]

Sounds like the OP got crispy crittered on some buys.

I dropped pricing data from my latest book because of the shilling and the existence of real time price data. VCP is quite useful for mapping not just prices but also frequency of sales. That is often more important than price for vintage and regional cards.

Anyone who thinks postwar mainstream cards are not going to fluctuate is delusional. Too many examples exist for prices to just go up and up endlessly. I've been collecting since the 1970s. I've seen over and over how prices run up and then copies of the cards pour into the market. I know guys who had high end cards and who've dumped them and downgraded because the profit taking opportunity is too good to pass up.

The AHs have no duty to ferret out bad sales; I am not sure they could even do so without going in and specially altering their software, which ain't gonna happen.

Calling market tops is inherently guesswork: never wrong, only early. I see strong prices on a wide variety of issues that are not worth enough to be manipulated by a cabal of billionaires. That's just the byproduct of a long expansion of the general economy and the resulting cash collectors have right now.

And they're freakin baseball cards. If you have to obsess over market manipulation and cabals of billionaires you need to get a different hobby.

[autograf]

That would make for a good music group name...........Cabal of Billionaires........someone call Al............

[Peter_Spaeth]

I prefer coteries to cabals.

[BobbyVCP]

Just wanted to chime in on the thread. As you all know I am with VCP. Whenever a problem is reported to us we look into the matter and correct it usually within minutes. Another thing to keep in mind is in our average pricing it takes into consideration how many sales in the past year. And based on that number it eliminates high and low sales and averages out the rest. So when there is a crazy high sale in most circumstances that is not averaged into the price.

If the auction houses would report to us lots that did not sell we would gladly delete them from our database. Same thing if you are a seller and your eBay auction did not go through we will again delete it.

We try our best to get as much information as possible to better educate you the buyer or seller.

To date we have over 8 million auction results with over 9 million images. That is a lot of information available for you to use.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Sounds like the OP got crispy crittered on some buys.

I wouldn't doubt it as a lot of collectors did, no doubt.

VCP or any guide is just that, a guide. Our cards in the pre-ww II arena are not like the post war ones inasmuch as they are not as abundant and are usually lower in grade, overall. Therefore there is more relativity in their eye appeal and their value. Of course high end and high dollar post war cards have some of those characteristics too. In other words buy the card not the holder. And don't fall for any crazy ebay or other prices. Look for averages and do your homework. And if you are an average-Joe collector like most of us stay away from the highest grade Rose rookies and their ilk.....

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Leon

I wouldn't doubt it as a lot of collectors did, no doubt.

VCP or any guide is just that, a guide. Our cards in the pre-ww II arena are not like the post war ones inasmuch as they are not as abundant and are usually lower in grade, overall. Therefore there is more relativity in their eye appeal and their value. Of course high end and high dollar post war cards have some of those characteristics too. In other words buy the card not the holder. And don't fall for any crazy ebay or other prices. Look for averages and do your homework. And if you are an average-Joe collector like most of us stay away from the highest grade Rose rookies and their ilk.....

It's so interesting/funny to me how a lot of collectors these days expect up to the minute, accurate pricing info on cards as if they were an ounce of gold or a kilo of coffee.

The "problems" with the hobby, imo, lies more with the collectors than with services like vcp.

[ezez420]

Adam, I am the poster and not sure what part of the field we are referencing. To clarify for you I had no issues or losses nor am I a shiller. But by all means if you want to openly discuss the baths you have taken with boxing collectibles feel free to post. All ears.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Sounds like the OP got crispy crittered on some buys.

I dropped pricing data from my latest book because of the shilling and the existence of real time price data. VCP is quite useful for mapping not just prices but also frequency of sales. That is often more important than price for vintage and regional cards.

Anyone who thinks postwar mainstream cards are not going to fluctuate is delusional. Too many examples exist for prices to just go up and up endlessly. I've been collecting since the 1970s. I've seen over and over how prices run up and then copies of the cards pour into the market. I know guys who had high end cards and who've dumped them and downgraded because the profit taking opportunity is too good to pass up.

The AHs have no duty to ferret out bad sales; I am not sure they could even do so without going in and specially altering their software, which ain't gonna happen.

Calling market tops is inherently guesswork: never wrong, only early. I see strong prices on a wide variety of issues that are not worth enough to be manipulated by a cabal of billionaires. That's just the byproduct of a long expansion of the general economy and the resulting cash collectors have right now.

And they're freakin baseball cards. If you have to obsess over market manipulation and cabals of billionaires you need to get a different hobby.