On this date in 1921....

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Posted By: john/z28jd

...Babe Ruth became the all-time home run king passing Gavvy Cravath with his 120th career homer,at least according to the newspapers now(read todays this date in baseball history) and back then.Of course we all know better and know that Roger Connor was the all-time leader at that point with 138,followed by Sam Thompson with 127 and Harry Stovey with 122.

Its also funny that when Babe Ruth broke the single season home run record with 29 in 1919,they interviewed Buck Freeman who's record he broke about how Freeman felt.He held that record of 25 for 20 years.Buck's response shouldve been "It felt like watching Ned Williamson again back in 1884 when i was a 12 year old boy when he hit 27 home runs for the White Stockings" Of course Buck kept that secret to himself and took the recognition.

Its amazing how little about the old days was known right after it happened.One things for sure,Tommy McCarthy OJ cards would be worth about 1/4th of what they are if they kept better track of the past

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Posted By: warshawlaw

computers, databases, ID cards, microfilm, microfiche...etc.

Until the last 100 years record-keeping was a matter of happenstance and luck. Even today, notes inside family bibles and old pieces of paper are accepted in court as "ancient documents" recording facts.

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Posted By: identify7

Buck just missed the the 20-20-20-20 club by one double that year (doubles, triples, HR & SB).

The only players to have achieved that are the Say Hey Kid and Wildfire Shulte.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Can anyone answer this question? Between 1891-1922 there were 4 major leaguers with the last name Freeman,all 4 of them had the nickname Buck.Isnt that just too much of a coincidence? Was Buck Freeman some famous cowboy in the 1800s or an actor,someone else famous so anyone named Freeman got nicknamed Buck?

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Posted By: tbob

Hard to believe Roger Maris' record stood as long as the Babe's. In my mind Maris is still the HR single season record holder, but that is another thread for another day. McGwire and Bonds and Sosa should be the ones with the asterisks....

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Posted By: Adam J. Moraine

I could not have said it better myself, Tbob.Maris is STILL the single season h.r. king to myself, as well.

Best Regards,

Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: Max Weder

When Maris broke Ruth's record, Ford Frick announced that two records would be kept: most HR in a 154 game season and most in a 162. A batter would thus have to hit more than 60 in the first 154 to beat the Babe. Roger Maris pointed that he hit 61 home runs in 154 games in 1961, it just wasn't the first 154 (he went homerless in the first 8 games)

This thread recurs fairly regularly on SABR L, and the conclusion always is that Frick never used the word "asterisk" in this context.

Max

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Posted By: Chris

I think what Adam and Bob are talking about may not be about the length of the season but more about the "strength" of the season.
Best regards, Chris

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Posted By: Max Weder

Chris

When Sammy played here in Triple AAA Vancouver as a 20 year old, he was the skinniest kid you've ever seen and didn't hit one home run (and that was when the fences weren't forty feet tall all around Nat Bailey Stadium....).

It's amazing how "proper nutrition" can help an athlete...

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Posted By: T206Collector

...I'd take it over my Cravath, but under the circumstances, I'll stick with my Cravath...

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

John:

For your personal edification...

From Bill James' twenty points about Mr. Cravath:

1. The name was "Gavy," not "Gavvy." "Gavvy" was a reporter's error.

2. "Gavy" was a baseball nickname, but it became the name by which he was known. He signed his name "Gavy" and became known as Gavy even to his family.

3. There are at least seven printed accounts as to how he got the nickname. All that can be said with certainty is that the name was short for "gaviotas" - Spanish for "seagull" - and that the name is a by-product of his baseball career.

Kevin

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Posted By: Chris

TAINTED AND THE ORIGINAL. I WONDER WHAT THE DEADBALL ERA HITTERS COULD HAVE DONE WITH TODAYS "LIVE" BALL.

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Posted By: Judge Dred

I know that this is not exactly the topic but... I'm a Cravath fan...

Gavy's name has been butchered. There's even a strip card with his name being Gabby. He was ahead of his time. Six HR titles in seven years right before the birth of the live ball era and Babe Ruth.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I figured there would be an answer to the Freeman question when i got home and saw 9 new responses but all i get is an explanation on Cravath from my good friend Kevin.I actually knew that stuff,i think it was in his "whatever happened to the hall of fame" book.Cravath was one of the first t206s i ever got,bought it over 13 years ago and the current value still hasnt reached what i paid,damn you Larry Fritsch.

So ill ask again,anyone know why all 4 people named Freeman who played in the majors between 1890-1922 got the Buck nickname,but no one before then or since them has and theres been about 10 others.

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

John:

I don't think there is any concrete reason for multiple people using the same nickname other than emulation. John Frank Freeman, the original "Buck," had a great season in 1899 (25 home runs, 122 RBIs, .318 average) following up on a rookie season where he batted .364 (although in limited duty). I'm sure he was thought of as a star in his time and those that followed him took on the name to be like him. Kids do it today with their heroes if they share the same surname and play the same sport, right?

As to why the first Buck was called that, I'm sure it had something to do with someone once calling him, as the old expression goes, a "strong young buck," but who knows? Since you liked my first bit of information from Bill James so much, I'll give you another dose. Speaking of the original, according to James "...there are some players in baseball history about whom nobody really knows much of anything. Freeman appears to be one of them..."

So there you have it. Now I'll ask you.....there were also multiple "Ducky" Holmes floating around the major leagues at the same time. Why that? Wouldn't you rather be a Buck than a Duck?

Kevin