Question about Heitman's "The Monster"

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Posted By: Richard

Evening Folks,

Today I got "The Monster" by Bill Heitman in the mail. It is certainly a very interesting read. Anyway, considering this book was published in 1980 (the year I was born!), I am wondering if his groupings of scarcity still remain in tact.

After the Big Five, he says the following are the next toughest:

Kleinow, Boston AL
Smith, Chicago & Boston, AL
Elberfeld, Portrait, Washington
G. Brown, Washington
Lundgren, Chicago, NL

Followed by:

Mullin, Detroit (Horiz)
Chase, New York, A.L. (pitching with white cap)
Mathewson, New York, N.L. (pitching with white cap)

And then the Southern Leaguers.


Do those of you on the board with T206 feel that this is still an accurate assessment of T206 scarcity (referring to fronts only)? I mean, now that we have the Internet, it's not hard to find some of these cards very easily (just go through some of the Vintage links). Is it just a coincidence that I checked the right sites first time out, or is the added premium for these cards because of the hype created by Heitman et. al?

Thanks for your input!

Richard.
http://www.richardarmstrong.ca

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Posted By: pete

I'm not the expert many others on this site are but I question the difficulty of the chase, mathewson and mullin. I have all of these and I've had an o'hara and all rare backs except uzit, cobb and bl 460. The prices of the major hof'ers, which are relatively common, seems to have overtaken the scarcities besides the big ones...wagner, plank, doyle, magie. Just 1 man's opinion.

Pete in MN

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Posted By: ty_cobb

I do not believe the scarcities (as you've grouped them)
to be correct. The Kleinow you mentioned is (to me) a
very common card. Other scarcities do not appear on your
list?

Mr. Heitman can still be reached by email today. I don't
mean to diminish his countless hours of work in any way,
but 1) He's stated in the past that corrections he made
never made it into the book and 2) discoveries in the 90s
especially of known front/back combos that he never saw
have since been discovered.

If I were to do the next big five I'd say
Elberfeld
Smith
Lundgren
Dahlen
G. Brown (Chicago not Washington, and for a good reason)

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Posted By: Richard

The reason other scarcities don't appear is because I took this out of Heitman's book. I realize there are others (Doyle, Natl), but I'm quite new to T206. I've been reading as much as I can find, but most resources that I've stumbled across discuss the big 6 & the Southern Leaguers, but stop there. Since I'm not in the market for the big 6, I am thinking about trying to collect the Southern Leaguers. At the same time, I want to be aware of what other difficult cards are out there, so that I can keep my eye open and get an idea what's a reasonable price for them, just in case I cross paths with one.

As for your list, ty_cobb, of the next big 5, that's exactly what I was hoping to find out (what other people feel are the next in line). I just took your list and checked through a handful of sites, and while I found 5/8 in the previous list, you have me 0/5

Thanks for your feedback!

Richard.
http://www.richardarmstrong.ca

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Posted By: ty_cobb

Just to clarify my list
Demmitt
O'Hara

next, the five cards I listed above

G. Brown Wash
Kleinow

and then the other 8 shortprints from 150 series.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Heitman did an exhaustive study but something written 25 years ago is just too out of date. There have been hundreds of attic finds since 1980 and that will of course skew the population of scarcities. Likewise, his front/back combinations are also outdated as many new ones have been discovered. It was a state of the art study in its time, but we are talking a quarter century ago.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

Having bought my copy of "The Monster" from Bill Heitman in person at a show, somewhere around 1980-81, I now feel officially decrepit!

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Posted By: barrysloate

As long as you can still collect and still compose, you'll be fine.

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Posted By: tbob

I have found that finding a high grade example of Lindeman is almost impossible. Rhoades one arm extended is still very tough although the price obtained for a nice one on ebay brought some out of the woodwork.

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Posted By: barrysloate

You are right about Lindaman. I believe he was one of those "150 series only" cards. Those are all tough.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

He is not one of the 150 Series only cards, but is tougher than most other commons found in two series. I had a few of him before I sold most of my T206's since I thought it was undervalued. I believe the best conditioned example I had was a Sweet Caporal 350 PSA 5.