Ex Barry Halper Collection Items

[ThomasL]

I am curious how other collectors in the know treat ex-Halper collection items, since he was a known to have had forger of items in his collection but obviously not everything he had...

I ask bc I see a few ex Halper items listed on REA that I firmly believe are fakes

[Leon]

I am sure REA is up to their eyeballs in the National, but just curious, since you put this out here, just what are we talking about?
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edit...Never mind, there are only 3 pieces there.... the photo looks good, so you meant one or both of the other 2?
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[doug.goodman]

The Rebels photo is the only ex-Halper item listed in the auction.

The other two items that mention Halper in their descriptions only mention that Halper also had similar items.

[ThomasL]

the Black Sox signed baseballs are specifically what I am talking about (lots 1921,1922, 1923, 1924). They are from Lot 546 of the Halper auction years ago.

I believe Cicotte is the only one that could be not forged of the 8 in that lot (even though that is pretty large signature for Cicotte and it looks a lot like the same hand created it and the McMullin ball)....maybe Mrs Joe Jackson (remember for a good while during the earlier decades of autograph collecting people thought that was HIS signature thus would think they were forging his not his wifes...by the time of Halper's auction it was common knowledge it was a wife sig thus reflected as such in the catalogue)

Of the 8 Gandil Risberg and Felsch are obvious forgeries IMO, McMullin also very unlikely based on no one knowing what became of him (conflicting media reports) until after his death, as was Lefty Williams (which there are a few forgeries out there that look similar to this ball)... Weaver did sign for people around Chicago but that ball has issues as well...All are very large signatures too which is very suspicious...

The REA description does not mention they are ex Halper items (they might not be aware of the fact)

I could be very wrong...but they dont look correct (surprised JSA authenticated them especially the Felsch)

I wouldn't bid on them and would advise any other Black Sox collector not to either

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by ThomasL

I am curious how other collectors in the know treat ex-Halper collection items, since he was a known forger of items but obviously not everything he had...

I ask bc I see a few ex Halper items listed on REA that I firmly believe are fakes

I knew Barry Halper. I had been to his house to see his collection, and I did a number of transactions with him. Based on my conversations with him, I do not believe he was a forger. Yes, many of his items turned out to be counterfeit. But I sincerely believe that is because he himself was duped (as too, BTW, were the authenticators who opined on his items before they were sold at the Sotheby's auction).

For example, it was well-known Barry kept his jerseys in a "cleaners-rack-sort-of-device" that at the press of a button would rotate the rack so as to allow one to access any desired jersey. Almost all the jerseys looked pristine, as if they had been purchased yesterday directly off the rack at a sporting goods store. Barry had purchased the great majority years earlier from an individual with alleged strong ties to former ballplayers. I remember asking Barry how he was confident the jerseys he was purchasing were real. Barry told me he too once asked that question of this source, who responded to the effect that he was offended that his character was being questioned, and that if he was ever asked that question again, he would never again sell Barry another jersey. After Barry gave me this answer, I asked him what he did next. Barry's response, "I never again asked him where he got the jerseys."

The point is that Barry was naive and not as knowledgable in the history of the items he owned that he simply lacked the sophistication to question authenticity. And, as years went by and his collection and its reputation grew, Barry's ego became so tied up in being known as the owner of the most famous collection extant, a collection that receive publicized visits by many baseball luminaries, that he could not allow himself to believe so many of the items were forgeries.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Barry told me he too once asked that question of this source, who responded to the effect that he was offended that his character was being questioned, and that if he was ever asked that question again, he would never again sell Barry another jersey. After Barry gave me this answer, I asked him what he did next. Barry's response, "I never again asked him where he got the jerseys."

Sadly, we all know what that means.

[ThomasL]

Thank you Corey for the point of clarification. Sorry I was little too cavalier with my original post...I will amend it

point I meant was he infamously had forged items in his collection...and other items that were misrepresented (a Joe Jackson "signed" photo that has since been correct as a facsimile signature when it sold at Lelands not long ago...Joe Jackson jersey that was in the Hall of Fame also lets not forget...two know Black Sox related items proven fake, so ya Im not buying those baseballs...guessing he bought them all from the same guy thus supporting the idea that they are forged)

[Vintagedeputy]

Growing up in New Jersey, I was, of course, familiar with the name and the collection. Such a shame to find out that so much of his collection was fake.

[oaks1912]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

I knew Barry Halper. I had been to his house to see his collection, and I did a number of transactions with him. Based on my conversations with him, I do not believe he was a forger. Yes, many of his items turned out to be counterfeit. But I sincerely believe that is because he himself was duped (as too, BTW, were the authenticators who opined on his items before they were sold at the Sotheby's auction).

For example, it was well-known Barry kept his jerseys in a "cleaners-rack-sort-of-device" that at the press of a button would rotate the rack so as to allow one to access any desired jersey. Almost all the jerseys looked pristine, as if they had been purchased yesterday directly off the rack at a sporting goods store. Barry had purchased the great majority years earlier from an individual with alleged strong ties to former ballplayers. I remember asking Barry how he was confident the jerseys he was purchasing were real. Barry told me he too once asked that question of this source, who responded to the effect that he was offended that his character was being questioned, and that if he was ever asked that question again, he would never again sell Barry another jersey. After Barry gave me this answer, I asked him what he did next. Barry's response, "I never again asked him where he got the jerseys."

The point is that Barry was naive and not as knowledgable in the history of the items he owned that he simply lacked the sophistication to question authenticity. And, as years went by and his collection and its reputation grew, Barry's ego became so tied up in being known as the owner of the most famous collection extant, a collection that receive publicized visits by many baseball luminaries, that he could not allow himself to believe so many of the items were forgeries.

Corey, I believe you hit the nail on the head. Barry was indeed more of a victim than a perpetrator. And sadly, since his death, he is unable to defend himself.... Good to see you this weekend.....Mark

[drcy]

The OP was worded ambiguously/muddled ("had forger.."), but I didn't interpret it as that he was saying Halper was a forger.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by drcy

The OP was worded ambiguously/muddled ("had forger.."), but I didn't interpret it as that he was saying Halper was a forger.

What you read was the revised version. The original version is quoted in post #5. To the credit of ThomasL, he modified his original version.

[Grigsby]

I seem to remember some HOF players autographed Halper's fake items,

adding to the authenticity problems.