Baseball team Maroons photos 1915

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Posted By: barrysloate

Marshall- you do realize that whether you feel attacked or not, you are in the middle of an awful lot of these disagreements. Steve, John, and Rhys are well respected members of the board and have been here a long time. I think we would all appreciate a friendlier tone. I'm glad you posted some neat early photos, but why fight over this stuff?

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Marshall, Rhys isn't speaking out of his butt here, this piece is exactly is exactly the kind of piece he deals in. The photo is nice and may be worth more than $200 to someone, but not by too much. Here is Rhys's website so that you can see the type and quality of stuff he deals in.

http://prewarsports.com/

You are VERY defensive, people here are giving it to you straight--something I would think you of all people would appreciate. You seem to have a knack for talking down to the some of the most knowledgable people in the entire hobby after they try to lend you a hand. Heaven knows we have all paid too much for something that we thought was cool. This piece is a typical piece that may perform better at a show (where size and quality can be appreciated) that it would on ebay, where those same qualities often go unnoticed.

-Rhett

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Steve....it's all good and i really don't care what you call me.

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Well Barry i just find it odd that someone states they have 1000's of early baseball photos from my area which i know is not true, my bad for calling the guy a retard. The area i am currently at is highly collected and sought after because of the scarcity of items. Any Clyde Laughlin post card in regards to the turnpike or train wrecks is worth hundreds of dollars. Also Mont Alto and Chambersburg have avid collectors who could care less about money when it comes to aquiring items because of the scarcity. In regards to John i was not really even talking to him about the Indian photos and then he claims to be a avid collector of CDV's and photos but has to search to find Indian ones. I will also add that my cabinet is hand signed by Barry not printed. Jeez if he were so avid a collector and Indian photos are so plentiful then i figure the guy had about 50 or so laying around and would not have to search for them online. I really never questioned Dan about his remark on the value of the photo. All i said was at the auction he would never got a bid card in the air which was true so i meant the guy no harm.

What i think is hilarious about some guys on this board is that they read my posts. Trust me if i don't like a person,band or gal then i do not go near them. Really maybe perhaps if these chaps who do not care for me would just skip my posts all would be good. There was no problem between Dan and i regarding the post and i did find John to be helpful in the situation but we differ on opinion as to how rare the cabinets are.

In regards to Leon's comments Baseball cards and antiques are a business to me pure and simple. I figured this to be a public message board which anyone can join to do research and buy-sell old baseball cards. I mean what kind of people talk about family deaths and private matters over a public message board? I'm not looking to join a family because i have one and call me old school but i keep a close watch on this heart of mine, i keep my eyes wide open all the time. I'm also not looking to argue or fight with folks but if i disagree then i'll speak my mind. If someone calls me a ingrate then i call someone a retard so who cares? Leon is cool and i think he is hilarious but to many people try and hold the guy over a barrel in regards to me.

In the 70's Nashville and record execs gave up on Johnny Cash. In his last gig with Columbia records here was his response which i just love, the guy was very ballsy and took zero slack from negative naysayers. Now that is how you BRING THE NOISE to the critics baby (-:,

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Rhys....your site is very impressive and i'm sure you are a expert on baseball photos however there was no photo from my area on it. Believe me bro i don't think 1000's were even produced. In regards to Clyde Laughlin the photographer from shippensburg he only made 20 to 30 panoramic views of the 1906 Shippensburg team which i sold for 750.00 and he was the most famous photographer in the area.

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Posted By: leon

I have several Johnny Cash DVD's. I listen to him a fair bit. I like Hank Williams Sr. even better though. Now there was a renegrade and truly great musician. I never get tired of hearing his Honky Tonk. I think a lot of rock and roll originated from old bluesy country and western singers...btw, You don't need to be part of the family to join our board but over the longhall a lot of fighting will be frowned upon.......take care

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Leon...i met Hank the 3rd while living in Nashville and he is hilarious and i love Hank Sr. I'm really not trying to fight with folks but if i disagree then there is a onslaught of negative and critical remarks which i reply to. To me these guys have egos the size of Terrel Owens and half of them don't produce the goods they claim to own. A guy claims to have 1000's of photos from my area yet on his website he has 0.

The truth of the matter is when i post something these folks just kind of swarm and then when one gets critical here comes the entire pack with the banning comments when i respond back. It is all hilarious to me and in regards to the Chambersburg photo i spoke to a gentleman who is regarded very highly in his knowledge on Chambersburg items especially baseball. He said there would possibly have been photos made of that team for members of the team and also possibly 5 to 10 more for the business elite. He also stated the condition of my photo would make it all the more rare because it is perfect still in the original frame untouched.

To me something is rare if their is only like 20 to 50 ever made because most will be damaged or destroyed. Items that are one of a kind are not considered rare, they are considered what they are which is the only item in the world known to exist so bid accordingly.

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Posted By: leon

Again, I get it. For the record...with what I collect....20-50 is very common...I enjoy things where less than 5 are known. I probably have at least 100 such cards. Don't ask me to prove it . I think we can all see what goes on and I usually do defend you somewhat....but I don't like it when you call my friends names...and vice versa, they shouldn't be piling on you either......take care (here's a 1 of 1 for you)

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Posted By: John

"In regards to John i was not really even talking to him about the Indian photos and then he claims to be a avid collector of CDV's and photos but has to search to find Indian ones. I will also add that my cabinet is hand signed by Barry not printed. Jeez if he were so avid a collector and Indian photos are so plentiful then i figure the guy had about 50 or so laying around and would not have to search for them online."

First off Marshall I said I was an avid collector of CDVs I didnt say Native American CDVs did I?

Secondly having collected CDVs and photos Im aware of Native American images and rough values and when you posted those above and said "I own some of the rarest on the planet" based on those images I would disagree.

I looked on the net because you called me out and said good luck finding another image of Sitting Bull with a peace pipe. Wow a whole 2 seconds and what did I find? Lots of the same image not surprising as its one of the most popular and reproduced images of Sitting Bull but being such an expert Im not sure how that slipped by you?

Your type has come and gone on this board time and time again. You kick in the door talk a big game produce very little in the way of substance to backup outlandish claims, then get your feelings hurt in the process of calling everyone else idiots.

There are many folks on here with much bigger collections and wallets compared to you but they dont need to bring the noise. Why you ask?

Simple those who do have nothing to prove, those who talk big game generally have very little in the way of substance. Of course I cant wait to be proven wrong, but I think all that will be provided is more noise and insults and very little in the way of substance.

Perhaps you should try to bring a little humility or silence vs. noise you might make a few friends and learn a thing or two.

And as for people on here with big egos I dont see anyone else acting like you. Also just because nobody understands or likes you doesnt make you an artist or extreme person.

John

P.S. You are no Johnny Cash guy...the only thing you have in common with Cash is you may own an article or two of black clothing.

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Posted By: Steve F

Well done John. Wish I had your control.

I'm CERTAIN our new 'Man in Black' will be receptive to your suggestion

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Well first John i agreed that i was wrong on the Sitting Bull piece and also thanked you for finding the info. Second you produced no image of Big Deer and third the image you produced of Running Antelope was a Wisconsin piece that was not hand signed. I doubt that you even own one Indian cabinet much less a hand signed one by Barry.

Yes my cards were sold at Milehigh and yes the Harry Bay brought 1700 and yes two of the Southern Leaguers are the highest graded on the PSA pop report so enough said in regards to that. In regards to the Johnny Cash comment you do not even know me so we'll let that one be. One thing is for damn sure Johnny Cash is not hanging with any dude called Willy Wonka.

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Posted By: Rhys

Marshall

I never said I owned thousands of Chambersburg photos, that would be ridiculous. I have owned several thousand minor league team and individual photos from this time period for all teams. I have owned probably 40-50 from Chambersburg including the estate of John Bowers who was a native from Chambersburg and played for them, as well as managing their teams thoughout the 1900's until the 1930's. This collection alone included several team photos, minor league real photo postcards, contracts from when he played for them, team correspondances etc. Several hundred items aside from the photos mentioned. I know a thing or two about memorabilia from this area of the country. I sold much nicer photos than yours for about $200 and was hard pressed to get that and had to sit on them for a while. I was simply stating that just because you claim somthing to be worth X amount, or pay a certain amount for something, does not make it so.

I could say much more here but I wont, I dont want to regret anything tomorrow morning.

Best of luck in your collecting Marshall.

Rhys

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Posted By: John

I clearly said I dont collect Native American CDV's but had knowledge of them.

Perhaps you can go back and read my post again. Bring the hooked on phonics vs. the noise next time and you will be able to read what I post.

But hey wow what a shock more noise and no substance, Marshall at least your dependable sort of like a Swiss time piece of BS.

P.S. For your size ego and trash talk I would pack a little more heat than 2 PSA low pop Southern League cards, 2 beat CDVs and a $200 minor league photo just FYI. But hey you don't care right that's why your going to reply and cry to this post...cause you don't care and you're a rockstar.LOL

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Posted By: James Todd

I always find it funny when so much posturing goes on in reference to something so un-tough as collecting baseball memorabilia. I'm sure ping pong enthusiasts fight too, but come on.

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Posted By: leon

Marshall....here ya go buddy...this should set ya'.....

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Posted By: Jim VB

In this case, does PhD. stand for "Piled higher & Deeper"?

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Posted By: Rawn Hill

Looks like a train wreck to me, but hey, it's fun to deal with egos.

Rawn

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Posted By: James Todd

I think it stands for Please Hit Delete

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Let me tell you of another photo i currently own. No it's not rare and i don't produce any goods. Both museums in Deadwood do not have a baseball team photo nor do they know anyone who does because they were all destroyed in fires. No Seth Bullock and Sal Starr are not sitting in the bleachers, also that is not the individual in the middle who personally buried Calamity Jane and also Wild Bill Hickock. No all the players are not identified on the back and it is not in it's original period frame. Also there is no known photo of Al Swearigan ever found just possible guesses at a few and that is fact. He just may be sitting to the right of Seth Bullock. Now how about a friendly bet of say 10,000 cash since you are so affluent John and such a high roller that and know me so well and you will see what i own. Go ahead and call the Adams museum and see if the curator has one there or knows of one anywhere. Bro you have no idea what i own or anything about me. All your doing is speculating from things i have said on this board and people like yourself are ahhhhh BBBOOOOORRRRIINNNGGGG.

No i also am not currently in charge of selling the family farm in Luray Va with Sloans & Kenyon. Go ahead all knowing one pick up the phone and call Sloans and Kenyon which is located in Bethesda and ask for Stephanie Kenyon who is the CEO and personal friend of mine and see if what i state is true. It is the only farm where General Stonewall Jackson and also Union General James Meade used as headquarters during the civil war. No my great grandfather did not fight in the civil war under Stonewall Jackson and also the farm is not 210 acres listed on the historical registry. I would post a pic for you but it is to large. MAJOR NOISE IS BROUGHT but their is no exaggerating to what i own.

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Posted By: marshall barkman

John...the cards sold for almost 40,000 as a package and the Sothern Leaguers which i believe to be around 40 total were some of the finest to exist so show me a auction result where you landed 40k. Also these cards are only the beginning to what i own. Rhys i to have some things from The Bowers estate including a 1923 Pittsburgh Pirates team signed ball dedicated to clyde Barnhart. No hard feelings bro and good luck to you as well in regards to your collecting.

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Leon...we need more cowbell. Where in the hell is the cowbell baby?

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Posted By: Rawn Hill

Now this is just silly.

Rawn

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Posted By: John

Yawn...why I should have to bet or pay you to see any real or imagined items you're the one talking big game. All I'm saying is what we all are thinking great love to see it...so far nothing that warrants all the NOISE.

I have no intention of playing any of your games or falling into your fantasy land.

REAL collectors post items of rarity all the time on this board without childish games...and NOISE they do it because they are collectors not to show off how big their Johnson's are unless it's actually a Johnson.

Like I said I'll wait to eat my words...no substance all NOISE nothing new what a shock.

Tick, tick, tick go Ol' Swiss Time BS Marshall.

Done chatting with you now I'll wait till some substance hits the table. Metaphorically speaking I don't play poker with folks unless I know they can cover the ante.

Bring the SUBSTANCE.

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Posted By: Tim

It's a shame some great collections are wasted on those without class.

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Posted By: Rawn Hill

OK, let's let Marshall resurrect the 1 of 1 thread.

Rawn

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Well from what i see Wonka you put me in a category of folks who do not produce goods. I have done nothing to warrant that type of accusation and generally when i produce the goods the busy little bees just fly away.

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Posted By: marshall barkman

No it does not belong to me. It's just all make believe. Man bro i could post some sick pics of items i own but i know it just ruins the sale when it goes to auction. The Deadwood photo is one of my favorites because i dig Seth Bullock and generally speaking a photo of him is considered rare in certain circles. I'm quite sure when it goes to auction that a collector of Western memorabilia or historical towns will beat the baseball guys on bidding. From all the people i have talked to it is the only known existing photo of a Deadwood baseball team that is turn of the century, to my knowledge it is the oldest existing photo on the planet. Also i might add i'm sure Deadwood fans from all over may like the item because the series on HBO created a cultural following hence the website was created. Both museums have interest in the photo and plan on bidding when i decide what to do with it.

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Posted By: John

Neat item, not sure it's as amazing as you make it out to be after reading your disc. of the above CDV's I have to take everything you say with a grain of salt sorry.

So is the above image worth all the noise I say no...

John

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Simply because you do not follow western folklore John. Here are some facts for you. Seth bullock was close friends with Ted Roosevelt and he also was responsible for the divide of South & North Dakota into statehood. He played a major role in the developement of Mt. Rushmore and also was the territories first real Sheriff.In regards to Swearigan There is currently a 1,000,000 bounty set by a private colector for anyone who can produce a image of Al Swearigan and have it identified as such by the experts. You see John baseball guys always want famous players or someone like Rube Wadell in the photo. Most baseball folks could care less about the rareity of a item if a hall of famer is not in it. To a museum like the one in Deadwood though a team baseball picture with heroes of the town is worth it's weight in gold and would mean alot to them in order to display it because it is a part of the towns history.

Here is case in point. A friend of mine bought a Ranch 101 painting in Philadelphia at a high end art auction. All the so called art experts were there and everyone boo-hooed the painting and swayed around the room smelling each other's farts and criticizing the painting . It was a gentleman riding a cowboy delivering mail to Ranch 101 and was dated in the mid 1800's. He bought the painting for 600 dollars and really no one even paid any attention. I listened to what his plan was and thought who cares what these bozos think because all they know is Daniel Garber, Scott Duncanson, Earl Moran and so on. One art dealer asked me why we bought it and i replied because i think it may be worth 5 figures, he scoffed and said SUCKER and then walked off.

My buddy then sent the painting to Waco Texas to a high end auction house and it blew out for 28,500 plus 15% buyer premium. Not everyone is a expert all the time and my theory is different horses for different courses. The painting made the front page of the Antique Monthly so i know the folks in Philadelphia were shocked and i wonder how the art dealer feels who called me a sucker is doing with his 4,000 watercolor that is now worth 2000 because of the economy?

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Posted By: J Levine

Marshall does not understand that he is not #1...he is the classic little dog barking at the big dog...he is the bully who finally finds someone bigger, badder and better and starts to whine and cry...attention seeker. I have no doubt Marshall has a nice collection and some knowledge about baseball. What Marshall does not have is more experience in baseball photos than Rhys, more general knowledge and class than John, and the respect of the board.

Just as a comparison Marshall...Ted and Scott R. know more about t206s than I ever will and the difference between them and you is that they do not self-promote, they do not take everything seriously, and when shown they are wrong about something, they admit it and move on with thanks and respect.

Marshall, you need to learn respect. I was just starting to respect you when you actually posted something of interest and then it all went away...

Joshua

PS There are literally 25 people who post on this board that have rare museum quality pieces. You are not unique in this respect.

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Here is a pic of the farm and i will admit this. It is very humbling to walk the same halls that Stonewall Jackson and James Meade have walked, Meade after all banged Mary Todd so Lincoln challenged him to a duel which Meade accepted, Lincoln did not show up after his advisors told him it would not be wise. Also what is scary is that my great grandfather was so well thought of by the Union army that his barn was not burned and was the only barn in Paige county to not be burned. Asking price is 4.5 million but nahhhh i don't own anything and i'm not involved in any affluent business deals.

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Posted By: leon

All of these paintings and photos are sort of neat. Eventually this is going to be a pre-wwII baseball card chatboard again though. If you care to talk about pre-war baseball cards this is the best place on the net. IF you don't care to talk about baseball cards, and pre-wwII ones at that, then this is not going to be a good place for you.....or anyone for that matter. Nothing personal at all. It's the same rules for all...best regards

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Posted By: peter ullman

that's "duel."

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Posted By: barrysloate

Peter- that's just the tip of the iceberg.

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Sorry Leon....i love all antiques and when challenged do understand quite a bit about all antiques not just baseball cards. In regards to the Deadwood photo i have already turned down a offer of 20,000 from a gentleman who resides in Deadwood. John basically in so many words said i have showed nothing in his opinion that was rare but let's just say he is not the all knowing when it comes to baseball items or Indian cabinet cards. I admit that in regards to the Sitting Bull piece my thoughts were wrong, as to the hand signed Barry Running Antelope i'll be alright in my estimation of what it is worth. I'll stick to baseball from here on out and where is the cowbell?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Marshall = Slater from the movie Dazed and Confused?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3D1PM2pQ7E

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Posted By: J Levine

Marshall needs to pay more attention in school...the duel that never happened had nothing to do with Shields sleeping with Mary Todd. It had to do with a series of well known satiric letters that Lincoln had written under assumed names about Shields inadequacies as Illinois Auditor. Todd and Jayne, two of Lincoln friends, also wrote letters, and it ballooned up into many other people writing about Shields to point where he finally challenged Lincoln to a duel...Lincoln did go to the duel...he won it as well when Shields yielded...

Joshua

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Thanks Peter. Really i'm not mad at anyone or think any of you folks are bad people. When it comes to antiques like pre war baseball cards we all have different opinions to values and such. While i differ in opinion with John and others i have no beef with them personally. I understand the high end auction game well and it is my playground. I am quite positive in regards to the Deadwood photo that most of you would not even be concerned about it. To me it is a piece of history because it combines Baseball with the old west and it is a 1 of 1 from the research i have done.

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Posted By: Steve

This thread just gave me a headache


Steve

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Posted By: Rob D.

I had a steak for dinner last night. It was really, well, you know ...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Good steaks are rare these days, so don't order yours well done.

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Joshua.... not true. You need to check other Civil War historical documneted facts. It is well known Meade was a rough character and would have killed Lincoln instantly. It is also true he had a thing for Mary Todd and Lincoln challenged him to a dual over what many historians believe to be a affair between the two. What you are reading is political cover up over the incident. Courage and Country is a psycho-biographical study of General James Shields, and his times, written by psychiatrist-journalist Dr. Sean Callan, after five years of in depth research in Ireland and America. Shields, an off-the-boat Irishman, was elected U.S. Senator from three different states, was the only commander to defeat Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson in open combat, was a State Supreme Court Justice who advanced womens rights, was described as a knight-errant who lived too late, was one of the few nineteenth century national figures accepted equally on both sides of the Mason-Dixon divide, and was a man who crossed swords figuratively and almost literally with Abraham Lincoln, the US President.

Courage and Country, depicting American history from a different perspective, includes a reinterpretation of the psychological motivations underlying the swords-in-hand face off between Shields and Lincoln on the banks of the mighty Mississippi River in 1842. The inescapable conclusion is that the near duel resulted more from passion over a woman than politics. Shields proved time and again that persistence pays off. His amazing achievements did not spring merely from luck; they resulted from dogged determination and time-tested techniques that still apply today. How Shields succeeded is spelled out in this riveting account of life, politics, intensity and inspiration on the American frontier.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Would someone be so kind as to drop me an email as soon as Marshall writes any post pertaining to vintage baseball cards?

First we had a thread about the grading of some non-sports cards.

Then we agonized through one about PSA and the tribulations of their mailroom.

Now we're closing in on 100 posts about a neat picture (belongs on the Memorabilia board, not here), some Indian CDV's (again, neat but not this board), ranch ownership, and the Civil War.

If I ever get said email, I'll read his stuff again.

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Last post from me in regards to Shields......To all appearances, James Shields was striding tall in the Summer of 1842, since, as State Auditor of Public Accounts, he moved in circles of power and carried considerable clout. He was well paid, single, and could come and go as he pleased. On the surface, he should not have had a care in the world but, in the turbulent world of prairie politics where windstorms could level a house in a few seconds, there was stormy weather ahead. It would involve the temperamental Miss Mary Todd and, her husband to be, Abraham Lincoln, the redoubtable Whig leader. Before the dust finally settled in late September, a chain of events had culminated into a situation where not only was Shields political life imperiled but his mortality as well. By the same token, Lincolns survival was in jeopardy too and, in retrospect, had the scenario played out differently, someone else would have been the sixteenth President of the United States; there might not have been a civil war, and the whole map of America might be different.

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Posted By: Sean

Did you write that?

http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail~bookid~18515.aspx

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Posted By: marshall barkman

Sorry Jim. I'm heading out and indeed apologize for BRINGING THE NOISE. You can go back to trying to figure out if someone is scamming a member out of 60 bucks or does Ty Cobb backed cards belong in the set. I'm not posting anymore in regards to this thread but i suspect sevral folks will.

Get ready for some football because the Birds will be flying high on Sunday getting 7.

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Posted By: J Levine

Marshall,

Thanks for the cut and paste...I will however look up your book and maybe do some reading. I do however believe that it was more politically motivated than just a lover's spat and that Shields was tenacious in what he did and very successful at most things just because he was stubborn and smart but you never know...

From Marshall's same source:
"Shields and Mary socialized frequently, and had ample opportunity to vet each other as potential marriage partners, but at the end of the night, the free spirited Shields would scarcely have cared for Marys Patrician temperament and tart tongue. He demonstrated repeatedly, that he preferred girls of the old fashioned type,..."


Joshua

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think Marshall has officially taken over this board.

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Posted By: Rob D.

Over/under on additional posts Marshall makes in this thread: 5.5

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Posted By: JDRUM

72 hour moratorium on political threads over yet? I need some relief. JK!