Ruth and Gehrig Balls - Authentic?

[LCBaseballCollector]

As a collector whose interest in this hobby is fading, I could not agree more with you TIOT. The only question I would have is "who buys this crap?". I mean look on the first page of the Coach's Corner Sports Auctions page and you will see two Lou Gehrig baseballs. Are they not completely identical?

The forger has but one black fountain pen (ocassional blue) that stands out as "so obvious", does it not? And then when you click on "baseball" in the browse bar in fact you see that he has authored more than his fair share of goods for these roaches.

http://www.myccsa.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=baseball

But of course in saying this, who gets the final laugh in all of this? What, twenty-five years of this? Tens of millions if not hundreds of millions in sales where a book seller in nearby area does a smidge of these sales over a few years and he gets a proper sentence for his crimes? And now they are bringing Barry Halper back to life in the form of fifty-eight authenticated items?

People "like this" potential buyer is the very reason why forgers have success and why it is a growing business and very, very lucrative. There are actually people on the other end of these sales that spent good money for worthless merchandise. Who would have thunk it, but I bet we all know people who have purchased from Coach's. I do. How many $100 items that should sell for $5,000 end up in retail stores with a $5,000 price tag and are in fact sold? I bet quite a few. Lots actually. Upon my travels I have seen it.

The number question is "how are these guys never caught?" and that the fact of the matter is that they are so brazen (perfect word) because it's been twenty-five years and if they were able to allude a few stings back when, do they actually foresee any harm coming their way in the future? So five years from now it looks like they will probably have a new authenticator, baseballs signed by William Shakespeare and Jesus Christ and we will still be complaining about them on message boards while we work hard for an honest living you have to wonder what the point of being honest actually is if this is allowed? C'mon FBI. I know you are very busy with ISIS, but this is the ISIS of this hobby. THIS IS A PROBLEM. Sorry for the rant, but I, like tens of thousands are truly disgusted with it all and the only way to combat our frustration is with message board complainin'.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

I suppose my simple reply is that "you don't know, what you don't know." I'm sure when you all started here you weren't instant experts as well and have learned along the way. To my credit, I didn't buy the Ruth or Gehrig balls, because I sensed something wasn't right. I came here, and that was confirmed.

As a bit of background, I have been collecting for years, mainly contemporary although a couple DiMaggio/Mantle type of balls sprinkled in. I stopped buying stuff like the DiMaggio balls when I saw the HBO special about the industry and Mr. Frangipani, of which I have one of the balls he certified - in fact, I went to NY, met him and the seller. I got burned and went away, except to stuff that was certified by MLB or perhaps Steiner (for Yankees stuff - did not pay full retail though as that's crazy).

I got "back in" after my best friend told me about JDE. Seemed legit, he had purchased a few nice pieces from them...seemed safe. Is that not something most people, even here, would do? Obtaining a Ruth and Gehrig ball has always been a lifelong dream. I'm glad I didn't spend $5k here on one only to find out later it was a fake.

I am glad you didn't pull the trigger on any of that garbage.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by LCBaseballCollector

As a collector whose interest in this hobby is fading, I could not agree more with you TIOT. The only question I would have is "who buys this crap?". I mean look on the first page of the Coach's Corner Sports Auctions page and you will see two Lou Gehrig baseballs. Are they not completely identical?

The forger has but one black fountain pen (ocassional blue) that stands out as "so obvious", does it not? And then when you click on "baseball" in the browse bar in fact you see that he has authored more than his fair share of goods for these roaches.

http://www.myccsa.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=baseball

But of course in saying this, who gets the final laugh in all of this? What, twenty-five years of this? Tens of millions if not hundreds of millions in sales where a book seller in nearby area does a smidge of these sales over a few years and he gets a proper sentence for his crimes? And now they are bringing Barry Halper back to life in the form of fifty-eight authenticated items?

People "like this" potential buyer is the very reason why forgers have success and why it is a growing business and very, very lucrative. There are actually people on the other end of these sales that spent good money for worthless merchandise. Who would have thunk it, but I bet we all know people who have purchased from Coach's. I do. How many $100 items that should sell for $5,000 end up in retail stores with a $5,000 price tag and are in fact sold? I bet quite a few. Lots actually. Upon my travels I have seen it.

The number question is "how are these guys never caught?" and that the fact of the matter is that they are so brazen (perfect word) because it's been twenty-five years and if they were able to allude a few stings back when, do they actually foresee any harm coming their way in the future? So five years from now it looks like they will probably have a new authenticator, baseballs signed by William Shakespeare and Jesus Christ and we will still be complaining about them on message boards while we work hard for an honest living you have to wonder what the point of being honest actually is if this is allowed? C'mon FBI. I know you are very busy with ISIS, but this is the ISIS of this hobby. THIS IS A PROBLEM. Sorry for the rant, but I, like tens of thousands are truly disgusted with it all and the only way to combat our frustration is with message board complainin'.

Well written comment, LCB.

First, it is my opinion that Roach's Corner has maybe 4-6 major consignors.

Also, in my opinion, the majority of people who buy that crap are stores who sell to impulse buyers who are the impressed by someone like Chris "I Have Never Saw An Autograph I Didn't Like" Morales and his "Forensic" title.

Then there's the individuals who buy that crap simply to flip it elsewhere for a profit, etc.

At one point, years ago, we thought "something" was going to happen, but it never did.

Scoot Malack and Lee Trythall have been selling forgeries for two decades, and at this point, it looks like it will continue forever.

With it now being 2015, and all of the information available, I have no reason to feel sorry for anyone who buys that crap.

And the truth is, the only people that care are us.

[shelly]

I find it interesting that you said you went to NY and meet with the seller of the ball and the Donald at the same time.
I have never heard of that happening. It was always my belief that the Donald and seller never worked together.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

I'm sorry but I believe your story is a load of crap. It's a little too ironic that you were "offered" two autographs that appear on a regular basis on the Coaches Corner website and chose to come here (seeing you just joined this month) to ask an opinion.

They are fake and if you were trying to get someone to give you an approval, then purchase the ball there and try to resale here or somewhere else, then you shouldn't bother sticking around.
Sorry, but your story and the irony is just too fishy for me.
Best of luck on eBay.

James, you might have a point here.

Something smells.

[chaddurbin]

impeccable business model from some of these guys. check cc's auction every month. put out an email blast jacking up prices 10-20x. if a sucker bites just win the auction from cc for pennies on the dollar...PROFIT!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

Wait, you know the people in this ring and/or know who they're connected to? I'm not sure what to say to that. The ring is not connected to CC...Who is CC?

Well, I admit it's just a dream…and a dream to protect idiots who have money burning a hole in their pocket at that. So never mind.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Well, I admit it's just a dream…and a dream to protect idiots who have money burning a hole in their pocket at that. So never mind.

Exactly, Scott.

I learned a long time ago you can't protect people from themselves.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by LCBaseballCollector

As a collector whose interest in this hobby is fading, I could not agree more with you TIOT. The only question I would have is "who buys this crap?". I mean look on the first page of the Coach's Corner Sports Auctions page and you will see two Lou Gehrig baseballs. Are they not completely identical?

The forger has but one black fountain pen (ocassional blue) that stands out as "so obvious", does it not? And then when you click on "baseball" in the browse bar in fact you see that he has authored more than his fair share of goods for these roaches.

http://www.myccsa.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=baseball

But of course in saying this, who gets the final laugh in all of this? What, twenty-five years of this? Tens of millions if not hundreds of millions in sales where a book seller in nearby area does a smidge of these sales over a few years and he gets a proper sentence for his crimes? And now they are bringing Barry Halper back to life in the form of fifty-eight authenticated items?

People "like this" potential buyer is the very reason why forgers have success and why it is a growing business and very, very lucrative. There are actually people on the other end of these sales that spent good money for worthless merchandise. Who would have thunk it, but I bet we all know people who have purchased from Coach's. I do. How many $100 items that should sell for $5,000 end up in retail stores with a $5,000 price tag and are in fact sold? I bet quite a few. Lots actually. Upon my travels I have seen it.

The number question is "how are these guys never caught?" and that the fact of the matter is that they are so brazen (perfect word) because it's been twenty-five years and if they were able to allude a few stings back when, do they actually foresee any harm coming their way in the future? So five years from now it looks like they will probably have a new authenticator, baseballs signed by William Shakespeare and Jesus Christ and we will still be complaining about them on message boards while we work hard for an honest living you have to wonder what the point of being honest actually is if this is allowed? C'mon FBI. I know you are very busy with ISIS, but this is the ISIS of this hobby. THIS IS A PROBLEM. Sorry for the rant, but I, like tens of thousands are truly disgusted with it all and the only way to combat our frustration is with message board complainin'.

Well done LC.
I still like to think that something will happen to these guys.
Some here have tried but LE is not what it used to be.
I think Chris is overestimating the number of consignors, I think even less then 4-6. One of them came over on the Titanic for crying out loud. (private joke). Remember that Titanic signed "team sheet"? A group allegedly of crewman of the Titanic had their alleged signatures on a sheet of paper. I can certainly picture them doing that.

[Klrdds]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgmp123
I'm sorry but I believe your story is a load of crap. It's a little too ironic that you were "offered" two autographs that appear on a regular basis on the Coaches Corner website and chose to come here (seeing you just joined this month) to ask an opinion.

They are fake and if you were trying to get someone to give you an approval, then purchase the ball there and try to resale here or somewhere else, then you shouldn't bother sticking around.
Sorry, but your story and the irony is just too fishy for me.
Best of luck on eBay.

James, you might have a point here.

Maybe I am a skeptic, and I do not have as many posts as many of you do, but it seems like this topic gets broached every month or so. A poster with low post numbers or is a new member posts a message about a Ruth or Gehrig ( most commonly them and curiously not other HoFers in that category such as Johnson , Cobb, Wagner etc..) autographed baseball that is available to him exclusively at a great price , or is available at auction. After our opinion is solicited and the name Coach's Corner Auctions comes up the poster suddenly asks all types of questions about CCA , in fact they seeem to follow a set question format/ script claiming lack of knowledge about CCA and then wanting to know all about them...including names, etc...and the site's opinions about them. The only difference is that the OP has a purported COA, unsigned albeit, from Barry Halper; this seems to be a new twist to the story, and now will these Halper letters start to proliferate through the hobby.
If this OP is for real, and I have concerns, but he needs to begin to educate himself about such things. Yes , Net 54 is and its members are a great resource but people need to do some work on their own also.
I do not mean to sound rude but these "fishing" posters need some legs to stand on before posting this stuff, or am I just frustrated that CCA continues in this manner.
Sorry the copy/paste didn't work, it became a quote instead.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

James, you might have a point here.

Something smells.

Shame on you guys for saying anything that might chase off a new poster who is just here to learn.

(I threw up in my mouth saying that.)

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

I do not mean to sound rude but these "fishing" posters need some legs to stand on before posting this stuff, or am I just frustrated that CCA continues in this manner.
Sorry the copy/paste didn't work, it became a quote instead.

I don't see anything rude about wondering about such things. It would be really easy to translate this entire thread as: "Would any of you guys buy these balls? Because if a Net54 guy would buy it, than anyone would. But yeah, I need to learn how to use steel-tip pens, and work on the LOA paper trail."

If the OP doesn't understand that it might come across that way, and he is sincere in his quest for knowledge, then we just educated him a little on how questions about CC garbage look to us. So now he's educated and can ask questions about other stuff that we are less sensitive about, and become a great member of the forum, educating himself and sharing what he learns.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by runscott

shame on you guys for saying anything that might chase off a new poster who is just here to learn.

(i threw up in my mouth saying that.)

tmi

[VAYankee]

Well, I already addressed this issue earlier, so I'm not sure what else to say to "prove" that I'm not just fishing. I can address a few more recent comments,
1. I did not know about the balls being on Coaches Corner
2. I did not know of Coaches Corner before I started this thread
3. I did some of my own research, albeit crude perhaps in the eyes of the more experienced members here on Net54 - again, noting in my original post I said I thought the Halper LOA was a fake.
4. For what it's worth, I wouldn't mind a Walter Johnson or Ty Cobb ball either, just not my first choice. I grew up in Jersey as a fan of the Yankees and Ruth and Gehrig were always the "ones to get" at some point. I clearly understand they are not necessarily the most valuable all things considered.
5. I generally don't mind those questioning my intentions, frankly, I can respect that. That's the trait, which has made this forum as successful as it's been. However, I'm not sure what else I can say to "prove" myself to you all. I've provided quite a bit of info for someone that was just "fishing".
6. I've stuck with this thread all the way through. Had I been fishing, I suppose I would have left a long time ago.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

Well, I already addressed this issue earlier, so I'm not sure what else to say to "prove" that I'm not just fishing. I can address a few more recent comments,
1. I did not know about the balls being on Coaches Corner
2. I did not know of Coaches Corner before I started this thread
3. I did some of my own research, albeit crude perhaps in the eyes of the more experienced members here on Net54 - again, noting in my original post I said I thought the Halper LOA was a fake.
4. For what it's worth, I wouldn't mind a Walter Johnson or Ty Cobb ball either, just not my first choice. I grew up in Jersey as a fan of the Yankees and Ruth and Gehrig were always the "ones to get" at some point. I clearly understand they are not necessarily the most valuable all things considered.
5. I generally don't mind those questioning my intentions, frankly, I can respect that. That's the trait, which has made this forum as successful as it's been. However, I'm not sure what else I can say to "prove" myself to you all. I've provided quite a bit of info for someone that was just "fishing".
6. I've stuck with this thread all the way through. Had I been fishing, I suppose I would have left a long time ago.

So is it possible for you to tell us the source offering these items to you?

[Runscott]

Most of the fishermen hang around for a long time, generally with long protests. But they also generally feign anger, which you have not. Welcome.

[VAYankee]

I did that already. Joe DiMaggio Estate. And, other posters already discussed them as well.

[VAYankee]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

I did that already. Joe DiMaggio Estate. And, other posters already discussed them as well.

...and, JDE said they were selling on behalf of one of their former customers.

[VAYankee]

Thank you.

[jgmp123]

Could you ask JDE for a contact name and phone # to call about the ball?

[VAYankee]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Could you ask JDE for a contact name and phone # to call about the ball?

Sure. I suppose that's probably a reasonable request.

[Klrdds]

If you are sincere and not fishing then my recommendation is to educate yourself to gain confidence in your opinion first, and then rely on this site to confirm your opinion, not the other way around. Get resources such as Ron K's book ( use it as a reference but not an end all be all decision maker ), go to PSA autograph facts web page, check out Hauls of Shame web site, and get in with Richard Simon and Jim Stinson as dealers on this stuff, and trust a few AHs, and learn not to rely on TPAs or COAs.
If you not an experienced collector buying a Ruth or Gehrig item, let alone a ball, it can cost you several thousands of dollars in mistakes.....somewhat like being signed to a MLB contract at 17 yo and going straight to the majors and facing MLB pitching ...you will get burned.
Remember any purchase you make good or bad is still yours no matter what this site or others say.

[VAYankee]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

If you are sincere and not fishing then my recommendation is to educate yourself to gain confidence in your opinion first, and then rely on this site to confirm your opinion, not the other way around. Get resources such as Ron K's book ( use it as a reference but not an end all be all decision maker ), go to PSA autograph facts web page, check out Hauls of Shame web site, and get in with Richard Simon and Jim Stinson as dealers on this stuff, and trust a few AHs, and learn not to rely on TPAs or COAs.
If you not an experienced collector buying a Ruth or Gehrig item, let alone a ball, it can cost you several thousands of dollars in mistakes.....somewhat like being signed to a MLB contract at 17 yo and going straight to the majors and facing MLB pitching ...you will get burned.
Remember any purchase you make good or bad is still yours no matter what this site or others say.

Thanks. I did do some research before coming here. In fact, that's what led me here. I've done some of the things already that you've listed - reviewed the PSA website, read lots of stuff on Hauls of Same (although it's hard to tell if Nash is being completely objective - he's not the most upstanding citizen either), I trust Hunt Auctions, Lelands and Heritage, although I haven't purchased anything from Heritage yet, although I admittedly rely on TPA/COAs from PSA more than I should. That said, I don't trust JSA certs as much, I don't have any concrete reason why, other than it seems he certifies everything. Could just be my perspective. Perhaps I have it all backwards - I should trust JSA more than PSA. No doubt I need to do more research, especially after this thread. I'm glad I trusted my instincts that the Ruth ball was fake and came here to confirm my suspicions.

[shelly]

If you really did your work. Those two items should have never been posted with the question are they authentic.
The other thing you should do check out JDE. They are as bad as CC.

[VAYankee]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Could you ask JDE for a contact name and phone # to call about the ball?

Below is the response I received to whether or not I could speak to the seller...

"There is not. The seller has hired us as his Broker for sale of these baseballs.. It is like a real estate broker who has listing. Potential buyers don’t speak to the sellers—there dealings are directly with the broker, who serves as an intermediary between the 2 parties. Moreover, since the seller is selling this thru consignment with us, and who knows who else, there is no way we would put the seller and buyer together, where hypothetically they could work a deal between themselves, and cut us out of the picture.

You have been provided a certificate for the Ruth bb, which is sold. We did talk to the seller and asked him about the LOA for the Gehrig bb. The seller said it was the same type of LOA for the Gehrig bb, which he said he would gladly send off with the Gehrig bb to us, should you decide to pull the trigger. You have also been provided with the chain of ownership from the current owner, to Barry Halper, to Ken Smith—who at one time was Director of the Baseball HOF. We have had buyers already who have bought the Maris bb, the Ruth bb, and the Jackie Robinson bb, who had less information than you have on the Gehrig bb. Frankly, we believe you have enough information to be able to decide whether to purchase or not."

[VAYankee]

Originally Posted by shelly

If you really did your work. Those two items should have never been posted with the question are they authentic.
The other thing you should do check out JDE. They are as bad as CC.

You're entitled to your opinion. However, for probably the 3rd or 4th time, I was looking for assurances that what I believed was likely a fake, was a fake. I did try to check out JDE, but honestly didn't fund much although I wasn't very persistent at first, because, again, they came recommended to me by my best friend, who sounded as though he had done his research.

[David Atkatz]

This is all total bullshit. Halper never issued certificates. Neither did Ken Smith. And, quite conveniently, they are both deceased. Guess no one will be checking with them.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

You're entitled to your opinion. However, for probably the 3rd or 4th time, I was looking for assurances that what I believed was likely a fake, was a fake. I did try to check out JDE, but honestly didn't fund much although I wasn't very persistent at first, because, again, they came recommended to me by my best friend, who sounded as though he had done his research.

Your best friend like you should stay far far away from this hobby.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

Below is the response I received to whether or not I could speak to the seller...

"There is not. The seller has hired us as his Broker for sale of these baseballs.. It is like a real estate broker who has listing. Potential buyers don’t speak to the sellers—there dealings are directly with the broker, who serves as an intermediary between the 2 parties. Moreover, since the seller is selling this thru consignment with us, and who knows who else, there is no way we would put the seller and buyer together, where hypothetically they could work a deal between themselves, and cut us out of the picture.

You have been provided a certificate for the Ruth bb, which is sold. We did talk to the seller and asked him about the LOA for the Gehrig bb. The seller said it was the same type of LOA for the Gehrig bb, which he said he would gladly send off with the Gehrig bb to us, should you decide to pull the trigger. You have also been provided with the chain of ownership from the current owner, to Barry Halper, to Ken Smith—who at one time was Director of the Baseball HOF. We have had buyers already who have bought the Maris bb, the Ruth bb, and the Jackie Robinson bb, who had less information than you have on the Gehrig bb. Frankly, we believe you have enough information to be able to decide whether to purchase or not."

You should direct the "broker" to this thread.

[VAYankee]

Originally Posted by shelly

Your best friend like you should stay far far away from this hobby.

Shelly, I find your posts to be very antagonistic, and I'm not entirely sure why. Essentially, I should stay far, far away from this hobby because I'm not as experienced as you and others on this forum. Following that logic, most of the people on this forum should have left hobby years ago as well. I'm sure you'll respond along the lines that it's idiots like me that keep the forgers in business. Again, following that logic, a good number of those on this forum have kept the forgers going this long as you've made your mistakes, learned from them and the mistakes of others. All I'm trying to do is make an informed decision before making a purchase of a piece of baseball memorabilia in an industry where there are lots of forgeries. As such, I'm just like you and others here - just not as experienced - yet, so please don't patronize me.

[VAYankee]

Here's an update from the Broker. Looks like they really wanted a sale today.

"Tried to call you before I left for the evening. Seems we are getting nowhere trading emails. Want to see what it’s going to take, if anything humanly possible, to get you some of these bb’s you are missing out on, so you can start your own amazing collection, rather than admiring from afar.

Quite honestly, with the documented chain of command of ownership of these bb’s it is even more assured these are genuine signatures, than even professional 3rd party examiners who are rendering educated guesses after the fact."

[HOFAUTOS]

I wonder if this Minister purchased this Presidents baseball from the same "Joe DiMaggio Estate".

http://www.centralmaine.com/2014/11/...en-presidents/

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

Here's an update from the Broker. Looks like they really wanted a sale today.

"Tried to call you before I left for the evening. Seems we are getting nowhere trading emails. Want to see what it’s going to take, if anything humanly possible, to get you some of these bb’s you are missing out on, so you can start your own amazing collection, rather than admiring from afar.

Quite honestly, with the documented chain of command of ownership of these bb’s it is even more assured these are genuine signatures, than even professional 3rd party examiners who are rendering educated guesses after the fact."

And the broker is...............?

[Sophiedog]

Originally Posted by HOFAUTOS

I wonder if this Minister purchased this Presidents baseball from the same "Joe DiMaggio Estate".

http://www.centralmaine.com/2014/11/...en-presidents/

What a Shame

[VAYankee]

Joe DiMaggio Estate

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

Joe DiMaggio Estate

That says it all.

[RichardSimon]

You just have to shake your head in wonder.
Brokers, hard sell salesman, COA's from the dead, guys with money to burn and no clue (not referring to you OP), what has this hobby come to?
It is repulsive and sickening.
Poor Joe DiMaggio. First a crooked authenticator uses his name and now this.
What a friggin' mess this is.

[VAYankee]

In one of my posts yesterday, I said these guys at JDE offered me a Gehrig ball back in December, which I didn't pull the trigger on. Went back-and-forth and frankly the whole thing fell apart when they couldn't produce the PSA/DNA cert they had advertised accompanied the ball. I was told I was being difficult, the name JDE was never a problem before, PSA/DNA virtually always certifies autos for which they've provided a quickie cert, blah, blah, blah...

Well, after further research this time when they came calling for the Ruth ball, as well as what I've learned here from you all in just a short period of time, I'm so glad I did not purchase that ball either. They actually fried their own goose with me a little more, before I had even posted here, because in the conversation around the Ruth ball, I had learned they had sold the Gehrig ball. My last conversation with them ended with JDE agreeing to send the ball to PSA/DNA for full certification, eating the cost and me agreeing to buy the ball if the cert came back clean and I still wanted it. I bet I still have the voicemail from them on my cell. When I said something to them about this, they said another buyer had come along willing to pay full price and not needing any add'l assurances the ball was real. Price this other guy paid was presumably just under $5k - unless they just took what they could get from CCA.

Here is a picture of the ball. I can only imagine the thoughts going through some of your heads as I write this....admittedly, at the time, I thought the sig looked fake when I first looked at it, but was willing to believe it was real if a reputable cert was provided....I know better now. Thanks.

[David Atkatz]

To be quite frank, if what you say is true, and you are really interested in becoming a collector of these relatively high-end pieces, then the amount of work you have to do is staggering. You show some of the worst, most blatant forgeries--balls that even a relative newcomer wouldn't give more than a glance before dismissing--and then pat yourself on the back because after much soul-searching you didn't buy them.

No one here can provide the education you so sorely need. Start by looking at old auction catalogs from reputable houses, and see how Ruth/Gehrig signatures actually look. Look at the Heritage Auction archives. Look at--and study--as many as you can. And spend time--a lot of time--doing so.

Then you might be ready to begin to talk to the people here.

[VAYankee]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

To be quite frank, if what you say is true, and you are really interested in becoming a collector of these relatively high-end pieces, then the amount of work you have to do is staggering. You show some of the worst, most blatant forgeries--balls that even a relative newcomer wouldn't give more than a glance before dismissing--and then pat yourself on the back because after much soul-searching you didn't buy them.

No one here can provide the education you so sorely need. Start by looking at old auction catalogs from reputable houses, and see how Ruth/Gehrig signatures actually look. Look at the Heritage Auction archives. Look at--and study--as many as you can. And spend time--a lot of time--doing so.

Then you might be ready to begin to talk to the people here.

Not sure I agree with your assessment entirely. In each instance I thought the sigs were fake, although not "convinced". At some point, you weren't as experienced as you are now, so all I ask for is some patience. I have some old books from Hunt and Heritage still around, although not many as my wife tends to pitch them. One that i do have is the original books from the Halper Sotheby's auction in '99. Question for you and others, was all or most of Halper's stuff fake or mainly the late 19th century to early '20s jerseys and reported stolen merchandise (DiMaggio rings, papers from NYPL and Boston) about which so much has been written?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by HOFAUTOS

I wonder if this Minister purchased this Presidents baseball from the same "Joe DiMaggio Estate".

http://www.centralmaine.com/2014/11/...en-presidents/

By the way, nice find, HOFAutos.

Presidential forgeries. Disgusting.

It's amazing the number of times we have called out reporters on their "autograph" stories.

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

Below is the response I received to whether or not I could speak to the seller...

"There is not. The seller has hired us as his Broker for sale of these baseballs.. It is like a real estate broker who has listing. Potential buyers don’t speak to the sellers—there dealings are directly with the broker, who serves as an intermediary between the 2 parties. Moreover, since the seller is selling this thru consignment with us, and who knows who else, there is no way we would put the seller and buyer together, where hypothetically they could work a deal between themselves, and cut us out of the picture.

You have been provided a certificate for the Ruth bb, which is sold. We did talk to the seller and asked him about the LOA for the Gehrig bb. The seller said it was the same type of LOA for the Gehrig bb, which he said he would gladly send off with the Gehrig bb to us, should you decide to pull the trigger. You have also been provided with the chain of ownership from the current owner, to Barry Halper, to Ken Smith—who at one time was Director of the Baseball HOF. We have had buyers already who have bought the Maris bb, the Ruth bb, and the Jackie Robinson bb, who had less information than you have on the Gehrig bb. Frankly, we believe you have enough information to be able to decide whether to purchase or not."

How about an associate that you can speak with live on the phone - Name and phone number...

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

You just have to shake your head in wonder.
Brokers, hard sell salesman, COA's from the dead, guys with money to burn and no clue (not referring to you OP), what has this hobby come to?
It is repulsive and sickening.
Poor Joe DiMaggio. First a crooked authenticator uses his name and now this.
What a friggin' mess this is.

+1 - such a sad set of circumstances...

[VAYankee]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

How about an associate that you can speak with live on the phone - Name and phone number...

JDE aka "Broker" aka "Consignor" is going to balk at having me speak with seller by phone directly for all the same reasons listed.

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

JDE aka "Broker" aka "Consignor" is going to balk at having me speak with seller by phone directly for all the same reasons listed.

I don't want the sellers contact, I want the brokers contact. If someone is expected to pay thousands of dollars for an autograph, they will need to provide some available voice.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

+1 - such a sad set of circumstances...

The hobby we all love is becoming sadder every day.
I started collecting autographs 20+ years ago by writing to addresses that were listed in Baseball Hobby News (now who remembers that one?).
Now it is lawsuits, informing LE of crooks, forgers, Florida forgery ring running amuck, NJ & PA forgery ring running amuck, CC, fakes, crooks overrunning the hobby, who knows how many fakes being sold on the two largest venue for autographs in the world and all the other assorted BS that goes along with it. What a shame.

[VAYankee]

I've spoken to him. Guy called me last night trying to get me to pull the trigger, but I sent him right to vm

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

I've spoken to him. Guy called me last night trying to get me to pull the trigger, but I sent him right to vm

Did he give you a name and phone number?

[VAYankee]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Did he give you a name and phone number?

I have his name and number. His name his Dave Ingber, although as you know JDE is run by Ralph Perullo. Dave is located in Minnesota.

[jgmp123]

This is a fun cross thread....

http://live.autographmagazine.com/ph...ource=activity