PWCC Huigens Now Has a Criminal Defense Attorney

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

He has no need for this case financially.

With a wife and a girlfriend, I think you're wrong.

Just because someone makes a lot of money, doesn't mean they have a lot of money. I know people that make $200K a year and are drowning in debt. Then again, you hear about these reclusive people with low paying jobs that pass away and come to find out afterwards they're millionaires because they never spent a dime. It's not how much you make, it's how much you bank.

The fact that you equate his wealth with his income shows what little you know, brother or not.

[asphaltman]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

With a wife and a girlfriend, I think you're wrong.

Just because someone makes a lot of money, doesn't mean they have a lot of money. I know people that make $200K a year and are drowning in debt. Then again, you hear about these reclusive people with low paying jobs that pass away and come to find out afterwards they're millionaires because they never spent a dime. It's not how much you make, it's how much you bank.

The fact that you equate his wealth with his income shows what little you know, brother or not.

You’re solely making this personal against Jeff. If it came out Robert Shapiro was Brent’s counsel you wouldn’t say a word.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

You’re solely making this personal against Jeff. If it came out Robert Shapiro was Brent’s counsel you wouldn’t say a word.

I might.

Shapiro defended OJ (one of very few people even more despicable than Brent! )

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

With a wife and a girlfriend, I think you're wrong.

Just because someone makes a lot of money, doesn't mean they have a lot of money. I know people that make $200K a year and are drowning in debt. Then again, you hear about these reclusive people with low paying jobs that pass away and come to find out afterwards they're millionaires because they never spent a dime. It's not how much you make, it's how much you bank.

The fact that you equate his wealth with his income shows what little you know, brother or not.

All I can say to this is I’m sure 99% of you wish you were in the financial position he is. I’m not bragging because I’m sure he could care less what any of you think but again, he did not take this case for the fee. As hard as this may be to do, try and think through how this problem would have played out without his involvement. Like all of the others maybe? People are getting paid back for altered cards, stories are getting written in national papers, and so on. Do you think with any of your involvement this could have happened? Is it better nothing gets done or all of us just complaining on message boards?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

All I can say to this is I’m sure 99% of you wish you were in the financial position he is. I’m not bragging because I’m sure he could care less what any of you think but again, he did not take this case for the fee. As hard as this may be to do, try and think through how this problem would have played out without his involvement. Like all of the others maybe? People are getting paid back for altered cards, stories are getting written in national papers, and so on. Do you think with any of your involvement this could have happened? Is it better nothing gets done or all of us just complaining on message boards?

You're right. I probably do wish I was in the financial position he is in. On the other hand, I thank God I've got way more moral character than he has. Which is better? At the end if my life, when I'm laying on my deathbed, is it better to look back on my life and say, "I wish I would have made more money" or say "I wish I would have had more integrity"? He can take his money and shove it up his ass because money without integrity still equals broke in my book. He may have millions in the bank, but he's morally bankrupt.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You're right. I probably do wish I was in the financial position he is in. On the other hand, I thank God I've got way more moral character than he has. Which is better? At the end if my life, when I'm laying on my deathbed, is it better to look back on my life and say, "I wish I would have made more money" or say "I wish I would have had more integrity"? He can take his money and shove it up his ass because money without integrity still equals broke in my book. He may have millions in the bank, but he's morally bankrupt.

David, unlike him you have no choice. When you’re broke with no possibility of that changing it’s very easy to choose integrity over money.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

David, unlike him you have no choice. When you’re broke with no possibility of that changing it’s very easy to choose integrity over money.

I assure you I'm not broke. But, even if that were the case, I'd rather be broke and have integrity rather than to be wealthy with no integriy.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I assure you I'm not broke. But, even if that were the case, I'd rather be broke and have integrity rather than to be wealthy with no integriy.

I don’t know how this transcended into finances, morals and whatever but nonetheless I’m happy to hear you are not broke and look forward to bidding against you on some great cards at upcoming auctions. But continuing to bring up Jeff’s personal issues, which are really between him and his family and none of us know really know what transpired anyway, only makes you look petty and I’m not sure this is the appropriate forum for that. Maybe if you feel this strongly it would be better for you to reach out to your clergyman and discuss the problems you have with him?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

All I can say to this is I’m sure 99% of you wish you were in the financial position he is. I’m not bragging because I’m sure he could care less what any of you think but again, he did not take this case for the fee. As hard as this may be to do, try and think through how this problem would have played out without his involvement. Like all of the others maybe? People are getting paid back for altered cards, stories are getting written in national papers, and so on. Do you think with any of your involvement this could have happened? Is it better nothing gets done or all of us just complaining on message boards?

I appreciated what you're saying. I think it just stings some of us because he is so passionate about cards and knows EXACTLY what Brent Mastro was up to. To have him on THAT side of this fiasco is a tough BITTER pill to swallow for me. It's total BS.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I appreciated what you're saying. I think it just stings some of us because he is so passionate about cards and knows EXACTLY what Brent Mastro was up to. To have him on THAT side of this fiasco is a tough BITTER pill to swallow for me. It's total BS.

Chuck, I totally understand that it feels very tough to accept but is the goal to punish Brent to the fullest extent the government wants to (and who knows what that is if anything?) or is it to try and solve the bigger problem and in addition try to get those affected their money back?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Chuck, I totally understand that it feels very tough to accept but is the goal to punish Brent to the fullest extent the government wants to (and who knows what that is if anything?) or is it to try and solve the bigger problem and in addition try to get those affected their money back?

How are you defining the bigger problem? And what do you suggest can possibly remediate it?

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How are you defining the bigger problem? And what do you suggest can possibly remediate it?

From my vantage point scammers like Brent and Moser will always exist especially in an industry that is not regulated and does not appear to be on any governmental radar to be regulated in the near future. That being said, getting rid of Brent and Moser just gives you personal satisfaction but next month you have Trent and Hoser doing the same thing so you’re back to square one.

To me the bigger question lies with how are these cards getting slabbed by TPG’s? Are they just incompetent, paid off, or what? Why isn’t every card scanned when graded so when it comes back in altered it quickly shows up as previously graded? What responsibility do TPG’s have to honor their guarantees? If they are not and instead are giving people the runaround is someone going to legally challenge them? Is that all in the works? Are attorneys already engaged and preparing lawsuits?

All I know is it’s probably unrealistic to expect that 100% of altered cards are going to get caught by the TPG’s but aren’t we at a point where obviously altered cards are getting through with no issue. Can Brent help shed light on how that is happening? Does he have information that it’s anything other than incompetence? I have no idea but I’d sure like to find out.

And even if it is just incompetence isn’t it time TPG’s shouldn’t be able to hide behind self serving statements? Is someone going to hold them accountable? If there are better mechanisms in place to detect fraud does it ultimately matter if a few cards get through? Does Macy’s know a couple percentage of their sales is going to be lost to various theft? Does that mean that they still don’t do everything they can to stop it? Are TPG’s?

As nauseating as Brent is, who is the bigger problem him or Steve Sloan who is putting out embarrassing statements. Do you think he’s trying to help you?

If in the end Brent can help shed some light on these topics and in return gets treated favorably isn’t that a better result than him going to jail forever and nothing else changing? And in no way am I insinuating any of things are happening or will happen but don’t you think if they could that would be a better result?

Feel free to shoot away.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

From my vantage point scammers like Brent and Moser will always exist especially in an industry that is not regulated and does not appear to be on any governmental radar to be regulated in the near future. That being said, getting rid of Brent and Moser just gives you personal satisfaction but next month you have Trent and Hoser doing the same thing so you’re back to square one.

To me the bigger question lies with how are these cards getting slabbed by TPG’s? Are they just incompetent, paid off, or what? Why isn’t every card scanned when graded so when it comes back in altered it quickly shows up as previously graded? What responsibility do TPG’s have to honor their guarantees? If they are not and instead are giving people the runaround is someone going to legally challenge them? Is that all in the works? Are attorneys already engaged and preparing lawsuits?

All I know is it’s probably unrealistic to expect that 100% of altered cards are going to get caught by the TPG’s but aren’t we at a point where obviously altered cards are getting through with no issue. Can Brent help shed light on how that is happening? Does he have information that it’s anything other than incompetence? I have no idea but I’d sure like to find out.

And even if it is just incompetence isn’t it time TPG’s shouldn’t be able to hide behind self serving statements? Is someone going to hold them accountable? If there are better mechanisms in place to detect fraud does it ultimately matter if a few cards get through? Does Macy’s know a couple percentage of their sales is going to be lost to various theft? Does that mean that they still don’t do everything they can to stop it? Are TPG’s?

As nauseating as Brent is, who is the bigger problem him or Steve Sloan who is putting out embarrassing statements. Do you think he’s trying to help you?

If in the end Brent can help shed some light on these topics and in return gets treated favorably isn’t that a better result than him going to jail forever and nothing else changing? And in no way am I insinuating any of things are happening or will happen but don’t you think if they could that would be a better result?

Feel free to shoot away.

Steven thank you for these observations. A couple of reactions. One, Brent's bad activities are so diverse and of such long duration that he is not just the fraudster du jour, he may well be the hobby fraudster of all time when all is said and done. So while yes to some extent my belief that he needs to be punished is colored by my personal disgust towards him, I think an important message needs to be sent to everyone else doing similar shit on a smaller scale. If he pays some restitution and walks, that will not send a message, IMO.

Two, that said, I obviously agree with you that PSA and to a lesser extent the other TPGs have been revealed to be a huge part of the problem. And something clearly needs to be done to bust through the veil of secrecy and denial and disingenuous bullshit they and their supporters keep spewing. But -- and obviously you may have insight where I don't -- do you really see Brent being able to take down PSA? I mean if he was buying graders and is going to confess, that would be one thing, but I would find that hard to believe. Interested in your thoughts on how he could do that otherwise.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

From my vantage point scammers like Brent and Moser will always exist especially in an industry that is not regulated and does not appear to be on any governmental radar to be regulated in the near future. That being said, getting rid of Brent and Moser just gives you personal satisfaction but next month you have Trent and Hoser doing the same thing so you’re back to square one.

To me the bigger question lies with how are these cards getting slabbed by TPG’s? Are they just incompetent, paid off, or what? Why isn’t every card scanned when graded so when it comes back in altered it quickly shows up as previously graded? What responsibility do TPG’s have to honor their guarantees? If they are not and instead are giving people the runaround is someone going to legally challenge them? Is that all in the works? Are attorneys already engaged and preparing lawsuits?

All I know is it’s probably unrealistic to expect that 100% of altered cards are going to get caught by the TPG’s but aren’t we at a point where obviously altered cards are getting through with no issue. Can Brent help shed light on how that is happening? Does he have information that it’s anything other than incompetence? I have no idea but I’d sure like to find out.

And even if it is just incompetence isn’t it time TPG’s shouldn’t be able to hide behind self serving statements? Is someone going to hold them accountable? If there are better mechanisms in place to detect fraud does it ultimately matter if a few cards get through? Does Macy’s know a couple percentage of their sales is going to be lost to various theft? Does that mean that they still don’t do everything they can to stop it? Are TPG’s?

As nauseating as Brent is, who is the bigger problem him or Steve Sloan who is putting out embarrassing statements. Do you think he’s trying to help you?

If in the end Brent can help shed some light on these topics and in return gets treated favorably isn’t that a better result than him going to jail forever and nothing else changing? And in no way am I insinuating any of things are happening or will happen but don’t you think if they could that would be a better result?

Feel free to shoot away.

Interesting. My partners and I were eating lunch yesterday, and we were approached by a lawyer who we are sometimes against, who also sometimes sends us bad faith cases. I went to refill ice tea and when I came back, he asked me what I thought about Beckett. My partners had told him while I was gone that I collected cards. In any event, he asked me what I thought about Beckett and I gave him the short version of what I know was being currently alleged about Beckett's involvement in the scandal. He then told me he was getting ready to sue Beckett over some issues involving that issue. I we shall see if that actually occurs. Since Beckett is diverse, I am assuming that if the suit actually occurs that will be either filed in, or removed to, the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Oklahoma. Perfect venue.

[Rickyy]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

To me the bigger question lies with how are these cards getting slabbed by TPG’s? Are they just incompetent, paid off, or what? Why isn’t every card scanned when graded so when it comes back in altered it quickly shows up as previously graded? What responsibility do TPG’s have to honor their guarantees? If they are not and instead are giving people the runaround is someone going to legally challenge them? Is that all in the works? Are attorneys already engaged and preparing lawsuits?

All I know is it’s probably unrealistic to expect that 100% of altered cards are going to get caught by the TPG’s but aren’t we at a point where obviously altered cards are getting through with no issue. Can Brent help shed light on how that is happening? Does he have information that it’s anything other than incompetence? I have no idea but I’d sure like to find out.

And even if it is just incompetence isn’t it time TPG’s shouldn’t be able to hide behind self serving statements? Is someone going to hold them accountable? If there are better mechanisms in place to detect fraud does it ultimately matter if a few cards get through? Does Macy’s know a couple percentage of their sales is going to be lost to various theft? Does that mean that they still don’t do everything they can to stop it? Are TPG’s?

Feel free to shoot away.

[QUOTE=CuriousGeorge;1902336]


Aside from the PWCC fiasco, the integrity of the TPG's was already in question especially when the info came out about the famous Wagner being trimmed...but the grade was never changed.....and yet they continue to survive...

Ricky Y

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Chuck, I totally understand that it feels very tough to accept but is the goal to punish Brent to the fullest extent the government wants to (and who knows what that is if anything?) or is it to try and solve the bigger problem and in addition try to get those affected their money back?

Maybe you missed my earlier post. I'll ask again. Why is Jeff so concerned about getting restitution for those affected? Did he champion the cause for restitution for El Chapo's victims? Sure, many of them were from rival cartels, but many innocent people were killed too. What about restitution for the victims families?

Good ol' Jeff...always thinking about compensation for others. How selfless?

Edited to add: And, from what I understand, Brent was already refunding people even before being represented by Jeff. If I'm wrong, correct me on that. If I'm right, stop bullshitting that it's because of Jeff's involvement.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Maybe you missed my earlier post. I'll ask again. Why is Jeff so concerned about getting restitution for those affected? Did he champion the cause for restitution for El Chapo's victims? Sure, many of them were from rival cartels, but many innocent people were killed too. What about restitution for the victims families?

Good ol' Jeff...always thinking about compensation for others. How selfless?

Edited to add: And, from what I understand, Brent was already refunding people even before being represented by Jeff. If I'm wrong, correct me on that. If I'm right, stop bullshitting that it's because of Jeff's involvement.

El Chapo was not a cooperator. David, stick to what you know.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

El Chapo was not a cooperator. David, stick to what you know.

The silence would be deafening

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

El Chapo was not a cooperator. David, stick to what you know.

Are you really a lawyer or are you bullshitting us? Last I read, El Chapo forfeited 14 Billion dollars upon convition.
Congress has always supported the idea that criminal proceeds go to the victims famalies.

I may not be a lawyer, but I obviously know a hell of a lot more than you on this subject. Now, stick to what you know!

[japhi]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Maybe you missed my earlier post. I'll ask again. Why is Jeff so concerned about getting restitution for those affected? Did he champion the cause for restitution for El Chapo's victims? Sure, many of them were from rival cartels, but many innocent people were killed too. What about restitution for the victims families?

Good ol' Jeff...always thinking about compensation for others. How selfless?

Edited to add: And, from what I understand, Brent was already refunding people even before being represented by Jeff. If I'm wrong, correct me on that. If I'm right, stop bullshitting that it's because of Jeff's involvement.

Don’t post here a lot so please take this question at face value....

Why is this so personal for you? I see a lot of people disappointed with this
representation but it seems to bother you on a whole different level.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Chuck, I totally understand that it feels very tough to accept but is the goal to punish Brent to the fullest extent the government wants to (and who knows what that is if anything?) or is it to try and solve the bigger problem and in addition try to get those affected their money back?

I want that website and his business SHUTDOWN and him kicked out of the hobby. I also would like him to face tax evasion charges. Your brother is not a tax attorney so he'll need someone else for that too. The hobby is and will be infected with 100's of thousands of tainted cards, IMHO.

Jeff ain't FIXIN nuttin PERIOD

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I want that website and his business SHUTDOWN and him kicked out of the hobby. I also would like him to face tax evasion charges. Your brother is not a tax attorney so he'll need someone else for that too. The hobby is and will be infected with 100's of thousands of tainted cards, IMHO.

Jeff ain't FIXIN nuttin PERIOD

My understanding is that unlike in the securities area where the government has specific authority to seek relief barring people from the securities industry or barring individuals who commit securities fraud from serving as officers of publicly traded companies, the government does not have similar authority in other lines of business. It would have to be part of a plea bargain, and seems unlikely here.

[judsonhamlin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My understanding is that unlike in the securities area where the government has specific authority to seek relief barring people from the securities industry or barring individuals who commit securities fraud from serving as officers of publicly traded companies, the government does not have similar authority in other lines of business. It would have to be part of a plea bargain, and seems unlikely here.

Wouldn't any revocation of his Auctioneer's License have to either be a condition of a plea or upon independent action by the Oregon AG/Dep't. Of State/other licensing agency?
Has anyone reached out to the State of Oregon on this?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My understanding is that unlike in the securities area where the government has specific authority to seek relief barring people from the securities industry or barring individuals who commit securities fraud from serving as officers of publicly traded companies, the government does not have similar authority in other lines of business. It would have to be part of a plea bargain, and seems unlikely here.

It's going to boil down to Calvindog suing PSA anyway so I'll just wait for that by the end of the year. I guaran f en tee it.

A nice waste of money for all parties involved.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I want that website and his business SHUTDOWN and him kicked out of the hobby. I also would like him to face tax evasion charges. Your brother is not a tax attorney so he'll need someone else for that too. The hobby is and will be infected with 100's of thousands of tainted cards, IMHO.

Jeff ain't FIXIN nuttin PERIOD

If he is in fact selling the promissory notes described on his website, and has not (as has been claimed) registered them with the SEC, he may also be involved in the unlawful sale of unregistered securities as they would appear to be above the regulatory threshold.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I appreciated what you're saying. I think it just stings some of us because he is so passionate about cards and knows EXACTLY what Brent Mastro was up to. To have him on THAT side of this fiasco is a tough BITTER pill to swallow for me. It's total BS.

I think I will the go with the suggestion that we wait and see. I am also not happy that Jeff agreed to represent PWCC, and I very much hope that Brent goes down in flames. But, as has been said before, wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one is filled first.