What would you say to this fellow board member?

[savedfrommyspokes]

Recently I sold some cards through ebay to someone who is a long time board member here on net54. Through ebay I offer two separate discounts (free s/h on larger orders, buy x, get y free on select items) to all users.

Before purchasing, this member asked for an additional discount, referencing other ebay sellers who offer to him a 20% discount on larger purchases. I replied back with a message explaining the two discounts I do offer and that these discounts were intended to reward those users who make larger purchases.... in most cases, my two discounts were larger than the one he was requesting .

He messaged back saying that a 10-20% (additional, on top of what I already offer) discount makes sense, even after my explanation of the discounts that I offer. At another point he makes mention that he is a member of a social online group representing thousands of collectors that he could promote my ebay offerings to, but I should make my ebay store more appealing (by offering a 20% discount on larger purchases in addition to the other discounts already offered on larger purchases).

At this point, I begin reading between the lines and start to feel that he was attempting to extort this additional discount from me by using his long time membership to this and other forums. He says he will positively promote my store with the discount, which to me at the same time implies he will negatively mention my store if I do not provide and additional discount.

He went through with the transaction anyway, without me agreeing to offer any additional discounts, but did qualify for one of the two stated discounts I do offer. Apparently I was not reasonable enough with him as today, he began providing me with negative feedbacks for not being reasonable (offering him the additional discounts he requested, I mean attempted to extort from me).

After selling on ebay for nearly 20 years, this has hands down been the most unreasonable user I have ever dealt with. I have also never had anyone who is the member of any sports card forum mention their membership for anything but a positive reason. Never have I had anyone use their membership to a forum as a tactic to negotiate an un-advertised discount. This user knew CLEARLY up front what discounts were offered, proceeded with the purchase and then provides negative feedback that I was "unreasonable".


Am I wrong for feeling this member was trying use his forum memberships to extort an additional discount?

[todeen]

Terms of contract are clear on ebay: submitted offer is the final price. If he didn't like the price he shouldn't have agreed to pay X, he should have paid Y.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Well we would like to know who this is but if this goes down like every other thread of its type, you aren't going to say.

[JollyElm]

Why in heck would you ever think you were wrong in this situation?? No way!! This guy, member or not, is clearly a d-bag!!

[Yastrzemski Sports]

What I would say to this board member I would not write here out of decency.

I would file a case with eBay to have the feedback removed. If all messages were sent through eBay then there should be a record for proof.

Maybe he will see the post and decide to amend his feedback in everyone’s best interest. An apology should accompany the retraction. He should also thank you for deciding to keep his identity to yourself.

It sucks that it happened. Let us know how you make out.

[Jim65]

There are 3 sides to every story, your side, his side and the truth. Tell us who he is so he can choose to tell his side. Its only fair.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Thank you all for your responses, I appreciate them. My intent was not to "out" this member, but to make sure I was not "falling out of the loop" after dealing with him and to see if it might be worthwhile to reach out to him via this site in a private message. I am not going to drop to his level and attempt to extort any resolution on my end by threatening to reveal him and post screen grabs of the messages exchanged. Unless he posts something in regards to this thread or our transaction, his identity will remain unknown publically. Maybe he will read this, maybe he won't, but I would be astonished if he does read this that he takes any responsibilities for his actions. He has been inactive on this site for more than a month.

After an ebay CSR viewed the messages that were exchanged, almost all of the feedback was removed and I was encouraged to "report" the guy. So I did, maybe it will help someone else down the road. Unfortunately, these days when dealing with someone who I feel may cause a concern down the road, the messages I send are clear and concise and offer little ambiguity so that any third party that may later view the messages will have little doubt as to where the problem lies.

Jim is correct, he likely will have his own perception of the situation. I tend to look at things from a rational point of view where it appears based on his behavior he takes more of an emotional point of view of things, so there would no doubt be two different viewpoints of this situation. I clearly did not meet his expectations as irrational as they may have been to me. He is probably upset too because he received only one of the two promotions I offer. He did not receive the second promo because he failed to follow the directions about how to check out with the promo's qualified items . Beforehand, I sent him a link to the qualified items and at the top of each qualified item's listing are directions on how to checkout and receive the stated discount. At some point, if a buyer makes a mistake on their end when checking out, they need to accept responsibility for their error. Even though he made the mistake checking out (and accepted no responsibility for it), I was aware of his intent and offered some compensation for his error, which he refused. Apparently the offer was not enough.



Collecting/selling/trading sports cards is supposed to be an exciting time for those who participate in the hobby. As a collector first, I look forward to this hobby as a break from reality and I try to treat others the way I would like to be treated. I have made countless friends through this hobby which adds even more to the enjoyment.

Trying to extort a discount from a seller, not taking responsibility for my own mistakes are not how I treat others and certainly do not expect to be treated this way by others. After many years, and many transactions, I have dealt with very, very few people who have exhibited this type of behavior. The few people who behave this way take away from other's enjoyment of this hobby. I certainly would not have been involved in this hobby for 40 years if I had to deal with this type of behavior on any sort of regular basis.


For now, since no one mentioned contacting him, I will leave the situation as is and move on. Back to enjoying the hobby.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Thank you all for your responses, I appreciate them. My intent was not to "out" this member, but to make sure I was not "falling out of the loop" after dealing with him and to see if it might be worthwhile to reach out to him via this site in a private message. I am not going to drop to his level and attempt to extort any resolution on my end by threatening to reveal him and post screen grabs of the messages exchanged. Unless he posts something in regards to this thread or our transaction, his identity will remain unknown publically. Maybe he will read this, maybe he won't, but I would be astonished if he does read this that he takes any responsibilities for his actions. He has been inactive on this site for more than a month.

After an ebay CSR viewed the messages that were exchanged, almost all of the feedback was removed and I was encouraged to "report" the guy. So I did, maybe it will help someone else down the road. Unfortunately, these days when dealing with someone who I feel may cause a concern down the road, the messages I send are clear and concise and offer little ambiguity so that any third party that may later view the messages will have little doubt as to where the problem lies.

Jim is correct, he likely will have his own perception of the situation. I tend to look at things from a rational point of view where it appears based on his behavior he takes more of an emotional point of view of things, so there would no doubt be two different viewpoints of this situation. I clearly did not meet his expectations as irrational as they may have been to me. He is probably upset too because he received only one of the two promotions I offer. He did not receive the second promo because he failed to follow the directions about how to check out with the promo's qualified items . Beforehand, I sent him a link to the qualified items and at the top of each qualified item's listing are directions on how to checkout and receive the stated discount. At some point, if a buyer makes a mistake on their end when checking out, they need to accept responsibility for their error. Even though he made the mistake checking out (and accepted no responsibility for it), I was aware of his intent and offered some compensation for his error, which he refused. Apparently the offer was not enough.



Collecting/selling/trading sports cards is supposed to be an exciting time for those who participate in the hobby. As a collector first, I look forward to this hobby as a break from reality and I try to treat others the way I would like to be treated. I have made countless friends through this hobby which adds even more to the enjoyment.

Trying to extort a discount from a seller, not taking responsibility for my own mistakes are not how I treat others and certainly do not expect to be treated this way by others. After many years, and many transactions, I have dealt with very, very few people who have exhibited this type of behavior. The few people who behave this way take away from other's enjoyment of this hobby. I certainly would not have been involved in this hobby for 40 years if I had to deal with this type of behavior on any sort of regular basis.


For now, since no one mentioned contacting him, I will leave the situation as is and move on. Back to enjoying the hobby.

Good on you. You took the high road and that is commendable. 'Outing' the person on this site serves no purpose and is not germane to the conversation. Whether is was Joe Schmo from Boise or Leon Luckey the scenario played out as it did. It is too easy for people to develop an impression about a person based on the comments of others rather than using their own intuition, intellect and interaction. It is great to see someone who does not feel the need to play that game.

[D. Bergin]

Sounds like an out of control Yelper. Expects to get free food at a restaurant because they write reviews on social media.

Also sounds like somebody I (and maybe others) might want to block on Ebay if you wanted to share the ID through private message.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Also sounds like somebody I (and maybe others) might want to block on Ebay if you wanted to share the ID through private message.

This. But I say instead of PM, the OP should post it publically.

To the OP, why not possibly save some other board member the same trouble that you had to go through? This board member didn't mind dragging your name through the mud with his negative feedback for all other eBay buyers to see. It could have had an impact on your sales. So what if you got "almost all" of it removed? You don't want to out him? He certainly didn't mind outing you on eBay - a much bigger platform than this message board. I, too, would like to block this guy. If he wants to tell his side of the story, he can come on here and do so but, from what you've said (and I certainly believe you), I would like the opportunity to block him for now.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well we would like to know who this is but if this goes down like every other thread of its type, you aren't going to say.

Yup, they all end the same way.

[1952boyntoncollector]

If not willing to out the person and just complain, i have to take what you said with a grain of salt. If you dropped a name then that person would likely defend himself.

So you just get to tell your side, which could very much be true, but you will never know if you are completely right or mostly right in the face of the collection community if the other side does not present their side if they disagree with you. What you define as easily understood discounts on your website/ebay for example may not be what he says. Plus perhaps there were passive aggressive threats going on both ways. Not saying its so but just saying..

[frankbmd]

Anomynity could be compromised on both sides of this dispute according to forum rules in bold print a the top of every page.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Anomynity could be compromised on both sides of this dispute according to forum rules in bold print a the top of every page.

Yeah pardon my crankiness but one person who doesn't give his name complaining about another unidentified member doesn't sit well with me.

[packs]

What could the other perspective be? I would never buy something for a price and then insist on paying something else after the fact. What would a reasonable justification be in this instance?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by packs

What could the other perspective be? I would never buy something for a price and then insist on paying something else after the fact. What would a reasonable justification be in this instance?

This fella seems to think he's some sort of "influencer", and should be compensated as such. Slightly disturbing.

Asking for a discount is not such a big deal, but throwing a temper tantrum that could hurt somebody else's business (or hobby) when you don't get it, instead of just walking away, is pretty sh*tty.

[Leon]

My biggest peeve on forums is anonymity when giving opinions or slamming a person or company. IF the OP outed the person ( I wish he would ) then his name would have to be made public too. I have already put several full names on the front page today, in posts, as those members apparently can't read the rule in bold at the top of every page.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Anomynity could be compromised on both sides of this dispute according to forum rules in bold print at the top of every page.

Originally Posted by Leon

My biggest peeve on forums is anonymity when giving opinions or slamming a person or company. IF the OP outed the person ( I wish he would ) then his name would have to be made public too. I have already put several full names on the front page today, in posts, as those members apparently can't read the rule in bold at the top of every page.

Duplicate post.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Leon

My biggest peeve on forums is anonymity when giving opinions or slamming a person or company. IF the OP outed the person ( I wish he would ) then his name would have to be made public too. I have already put several full names on the front page today, in posts, as those members apparently can't read the rule in bold at the top of every page.

That is one of the biggest problems with the PSA message boards Leon. They got some grade "A" jerks over there. And I believe they are letting these banned members back onto the board. These guys have done terrible things to fellow hobbyists. And they all hide under the guise of anonymity. I could tell you some stories to make you say "what the ****".....

[Leon]

Same thing happens on Blowout now. They get banned from here and go over there to hide and talk trash. There are a bunch of trolls, criminals and idiots over there, along with some good people too. But the slamming people anonymously has made me stop participating over there. Lots of criminals outing criminals anonymously. That doesn't work for me. A big pile of poop is what I think it is now. And the mods protect the anonymous criminals to get more page views, so it seems.

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

That is one of the biggest problems with the PSA message boards Leon. They got some grade "A" jerks over there. And I believe they are letting these banned members back onto the board. These guys have done terrible things to fellow hobbyists. And they all hide under the guise of anonymity. I could tell you some stories to make you say "what the ****".....

[Jim65]

I joined Blowout and as soon as I started posting, 3 members accused me of being a previously banned member, who the hell needs that crap.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah pardon my crankiness but one person who doesn't give his name complaining about another unidentified member doesn't sit well with me.

I totally agree, Peter.


by the way, the guy who posted immediately after you has the strange name of 'packs', but I've never had an issue with him.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

If not willing to out the person and just complain, i have to take what you said with a grain of salt. If you dropped a name then that person would likely defend himself.

So you just get to tell your side, which could very much be true, but you will never know if you are completely right or mostly right in the face of the collection community if the other side does not present their side if they disagree with you. What you define as easily understood discounts on your website/ebay for example may not be what he says. Plus perhaps there were passive aggressive threats going on both ways. Not saying its so but just saying..

The other person could defend himself regardless whether he was named, if he wanted to do so. Naming him would almost force him to provide his side to it; otherwise his silence would speak volumes.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Mark17

The other person could defend himself regardless whether he was named, if he wanted to do so. Naming him would almost force him to provide his side to it; otherwise his silence would speak volumes.

I dont buy that......no reason to defend yourself if not named.

it speaks volumes when someone lists what they say happened but does not give out any names. That way its easy for everyone just to agree with them and there will be no one to give the other side..

To me, if you are truly in the right, why not name names, especially if everyone agrees what the other person is so egregious and we want that type of action stopped....

Would be like saying 'i sold a card to a guy and he said if i dont give a 20% refund, he will invent things and tell everyone what a bad seller i was and is complaining to ebay etc.., i did deliver the card 2 days after I said i was but i gave him a great discount already and i offered him a return and would pay for shipping but he doesnt answer....did i do anything wrong and was it right for him to say he will say bad things about me?' (I also tried to email him to prevent me posting anything with no response)

What you think people are going to say to that.... easy to give all that info without naming names..and does nothing for the hobby because if there is a bad buyer out there, he is not being named so can continue with his actions.

[pokerplyr80]

I agree with Peter and Leon. These complaint threads that refuse to name who they're complaining about are ridiculous. Especially if it's another net54 member. Just spit out the name, let that person present his side, and it will generally become clear who was in the wrong. If you're not upset enough to name the other person then it's probably best to keep your thoughts to yourself.

[Republicaninmass]

I'd say you threatened me with being a net54 user, let's see what they have to say about your extortion tactics.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I agree with Peter and Leon. These complaint threads that refuse to name who they're complaining about are ridiculous. Especially if it's another net54 member. Just spit out the name, let that person present his side, and it will generally become clear who was in the wrong. If you're not upset enough to name the other person then it's probably best to keep your thoughts to yourself.

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I totally agree, Peter.


by the way, the guy who posted immediately after you has the strange name of 'packs', but I've never had an issue with him.

Packs is a good man, very passionate and knowledgeable about baseball and cards. Always good for lively and interesting discussions. I too wish he would share his name, but he must have his reasons for not doing so.

[999Tony]

From the perspective of an ebay buyer, but rarely a seller, and collecting novice:

Seems like stated intent of initial post in this thread was to get some feedback as to whether seller was being reasonable. Also seems like the actual problem was the buyer made some kind of error checking out and missing out on one of two discounts actually being offered. The rest of the stuff about wanting additional discounts, etc. doesn't seem to have been what caused the dispute (as irritating as it may have been ).

So the dispute comes down to --buyer wanted the two discounts seller actually offered, but made an error checking out. Seller apparently offered a compromise so buyer would get part of the extra second discount, but not the whole thing.

As an ebay buyer, I have had sellers who allowed me to retract an erroneous bid, and I have also had sellers who refused, leaving me with something I didn't want. I leave positive feedback for those who assist me. I don't leave negative feedback for those who don't, since I recognize I'm the idiot who didn't read the description carefully, or clicked in the wrong place, and I know I am responsible for following through with any bid I make. Though it is aggravating to get stuck with something I didn't want. (So far it's only been inexpensive items).

So the guy was way way out of line for negative feedback about a seller who actually worked with him, and who didn't do anything wrong. But as a buyer, I'd be annoyed if I clicked on the wrong button and missed out on a discount, and would think the seller should have given me what was offered. I probably wouldn't be keeping that seller on my saved seller list.

So that's my long winded two cents worth