1934 Goudey Lou Gehrig display sign

[JackW]

With so many veteran memorabilia collectors here, I hope someone can shed some light. I'm being offered a 1934 Goudey display sign. The only photo I have was sent via text, so it won't help to post it here. However, I found two examples (different ones, I think) sold recently:

http://loveofthegameauctions.com/Lot...ventoryid=7456

http://loveofthegameauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=10173

The one being offered to me has the easel back like these do. After doing research to try to arrive at a price, I was surprised to find only these two sales. But nothing before or since. I did find a similar example sold by Legendary in 2001, but that one didn't have an easel back. That one was described as "Printed on sturdy cardboard (which gives it the feel of a large card), the sign is designed with a flap at the bottom which allows it to hook over and attach to what was apparently a very plain box which held packs of 1934 Goudey."

The Legendary example sold for more than $9,000. The two recent similar examples sold for $1,200 and $615.

Does anyone know of any other sales of the easel back version or has anyone seen other examples? Any idea why there would be two different styles of this sign? I started my research hoping to find a fair price but now I have these other questions and have hit a wall.

[bobfreedman]

Not sure that it makes up the difference in the price but the one that sold in Mastro in 2001 was a complete version (see image, below the "Join This League" is more complete). The condition makes all the difference in the world but again, I am not sure that the condition would account for 9 times the value. I would chalk it up to the one in Mastro being sold in 2001 and now they are a bit more common than originally thought. I believe that I saw a few on eBay a while back. Hope that this helps

[JackW]

Thank you for pointing that out. I noticed that but thought that because the version I'm being offered has an easel back and was made to stand up and the more full version wasn't, that might be a reason for the different sizes. But you think the two signs are the same, with the recent sales just missing the bottom portions? Still not sure what to make of the easel backs.

[ruth-gehrig]

I am highly suspicious of this particular piece. This is a known piece that used to be found on ebay from a seller known as acofind who sold, probably still sells known fakes. I've always questioned the authenticity of them as they always appear washed out and not real clear print detail which are usually signs of a reproduced or fantasy piece. Although the piece from Legendary is small from the provided picture it does look more promising to me. It looks more clear and of higher quality. Notice how Legendarys version mentions "this card" and "window poster"? The easel back is neither of these. Its my opinion the easel back is not a good piece. I've never held these pieces in hand. Disregard Legendary's so called "sold" price. They were fraudulent. Piece was probably shilled.

[Al C.risafulli]

Hi guys:

Thought I'd drop into this thread.

Over the years, I've gone back to this piece a number of times because as I've handled more Goudey pieces, I've become less comfortable with the print quality of the Gehrig piece. When I read this thread earlier today, I did some further research into the item, and became even less confident with its authenticity. The washed-out look reminded me of some other, inauthentic display pieces that I've recently had to reject for authenticity reasons, and the image Bob posted of an authentic piece is far closer to what one of these should look like.

Tonight I had a discussion with Rob Lifson about the piece, and he confirmed it: the pieces sold in my auction are not authentic. Rob has handled the only two of these items that he's aware of, and as many of you do as well, I trust Rob's judgement on these things implicitly. The piece shown in this thread as having been sold in Mastro/Legendary is the actual, authentic display.

Authentic 1934 Goudey signs should NOT have easel backs. What they were actually designed to do was mount on the back of the box of Goudey cards, as a display. The piece was a standalone piece, so that when the box was empty, the retailer could remove it and mount it on the next box.

Because of how they were intended to be used, they are very rare.

It seems that somewhere along the line, someone made a print of the photo of this piece from the Legendary catalog, carefully cut it and mounted it onto cardboard with an easel back. There are multiple fakes of these, floating around the hobby. The quantity of these easel-backed pieces that have popped up over the last couple of years is an indicator of something fishy.

This evening I reached out to both buyers, and will be issuing them full refunds for their purchase price, and have asked them to return the pieces to me so that I can get them out of the hobby.

If you see one of these displays with the easel backs, they are not authentic!

Special thanks to Rob Lifson for helping get to the bottom of a mystery, and for sharing his immense knowledge so freely.

Thanks,
-Al

[ruth-gehrig]

Good man Al
You could have ignored this thread acting like you didn't see it and keep your fingers crossed that your 2 lot winners didn't either! Much respect to you!

[Al C.risafulli]

Thanks, Michael. I'm always really appreciative of this kind of stuff, I can't possibly know everything about everything and there's a ton of knowledge on this board. Way more important to keep bad stuff out of the hobby than to make a few bucks.

-Al

[perezfan]

That clarifies it. I was suspicious of the easel back versions as well. All of those recent bogus display signs on eBay had the same exact washed out appearance. They garnered a ton of bids and realized some big prices, despite all being fakes.

The Memorabilia market is starved for this stuff, and people tend to incorporate wishful thinking into their bidding.

In the case of LOTG, many thanks to Al for going above and beyond to research these (even though the sales had closed a while back). I wish every dealer and/or auction house was that proactive, and responsive to its customers’ best interests. Well done!

PSA/Sloan should take a lesson... Customer Service 101

[JackW]

Thank you to Michael (ruth-gehrig) and Rob Lifson for identifying the easel-back signs as fakes. You helped save me (and possibly others) some money.

Al, would it be possible for you to remove the sales of the Goudey signs from your auction archives to prevent others in the future from doing what I did and assuming the reproductions were authentic because Love of the Game sold them?

Thank you again to Michael and Rob for the help on this.

[Al C.risafulli]

Hi Jack:

I'm actually going to update the descriptions on both lots to indicate that these are fake, along with a description of what the authentic one should look like.

-Al

[Snapolit1]

Appreciate Al’s gesture here. I own one of the LOTG pieces. Just had it framed and put on my wall a few weeks ago. And it looks great. It will stay on my wall and never be resold.

[ruth-gehrig]

Al and Jack, you guys are welcome! I wont ever claim to know a lot, lol, but always willing to share what I do know

[ruth-gehrig]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Appreciate Al’s gesture here. I own one of the LOTG pieces. Just had it framed and put on my wall a few weeks ago. And it looks great. It will stay on my wall and never be resold.

So you are declining Al's refund offer because you just recently had it framed? Just curious

[JackW]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

So you are declining Al's refund offer because you just recently had it framed? Just curious

Thank you for asking this. I was wondering the same thing. Paying $600 or $1,200 for what is, at best, essentially a modern poster? Not to mention a constant reminder that one purchased a fake. (At least it would constantly remind me. I should not make assumptions how other people think.)

[Al C.risafulli]

Guys:

My refund isn't a refund offer. My refund is a refund. I'd like to get the items out of the hobby, but if Steve wants to keep it hanging in his office, that's fine with me, as long as it never makes its way back into the hobby again. Both buyers will be getting refunds regardless of whether they give the pieces back to me, destroy them, hang them in their kids' bedrooms, whatever. Doesn't matter to me, both buyers are men of integrity who will not let the pieces back into the hobby.

-Al

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Guys:

My refund isn't a refund offer. My refund is a refund. I'd like to get the items out of the hobby, but if Steve wants to keep it hanging in his office, that's fine with me, as long as it never makes its way back into the hobby again. Both buyers will be getting refunds regardless of whether they give the pieces back to me, destroy them, hang them in their kids' bedrooms, whatever. Doesn't matter to me, both buyers are men of integrity who will not let the pieces back into the hobby.

-Al

Kudos for this.

Will you be at the East Coast National next month?