the list (of criminals) is revealed

[Econteachert205]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

this works great, was very interesting... anyone else remember all of TJ Schwartz's holier than thou articles about the hobby? lol

[bobbyw8469]

Sickening.....but not surprising. Thank you for sharing the list. Some very disgusting stuff.

[Buythatcard]

I think we should start creating our list.

If the shiller or consignor is with a current AH, then they will be part of this list.

[T206Collector]

Here's an interesting one:

http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...entoryid=70892

Apparently this was the only Lionel Carter auction that was shilled. I very much doubt that Carter himself was involved in the shilling - I doubt this would have been his one auction to choose to shill. I would guess, instead, that Mastro had knowledge of the highest bid and then did this in order to increase the premium.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Here's an interesting one:

http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...entoryid=70892

Apparently this was the only Lionel Carter auction that was shilled. I very much doubt that Carter himself was involved in the shilling - I doubt this would have been his one auction to choose to shill. I would guess, instead, that Mastro had knowledge of the highest bid and then did this in order to increase the premium.

thank you...my point exactly. Some consignors may not have known about their items being shilled. But I'm sure most on this list did.

And how did Mastro determine which auctions got shilled? Did he base it on the bidding activity, relationships, town in which the consignor and shiller lived? Or side agreements he made with each of these individual consignors/shill bidders? I'm sure there are other folks out there who have made arrangements with friends/family to shill bid an auction without Mastro knowing about it. So, this begs the question, "is this list complete?" (for 2007-2009 Mastro auctions).

And yes, the inflated price phenomenon is certainly an issue here that can't be ignored...especially with price transparency sites like VCP.

[Shoeless Moe]

Leon, any chance you can run the schiller list up against your members list (past & present, with user name too), would like to see and possible hear from them, although like cockroaches you flip the light switch on and I'd bet those people arn't long for here.

And if someone can post all the schillers and the current auction houses they work for I believe that could be enlightening.

[ALR-bishop]

Is this classification unique to the legal community or can people in other occupations aspire to it ?

[Leon]

I don't know a way to cross reference with that data. The data I have isn't very easy to work with, generally speaking.

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Leon, any chance you can run the schiller list up against your members list (past & present, with user name too), would like to see and possible hear from them, although like cockroaches you flip the light switch on and I'd bet those people arn't long for here.

And if someone can post all the schillers and the current auction houses they work for I believe that could be enlightening.

[bnorth]

I personally can't wait to see what those accused of shill bidding do? Will they use the most popular method of denial, change blame/subject, and name calling. I love how guilty people start of denying anything happened, then try to change the subject or try to switch the blame to others and after those 2 don't work they revert to name calling. I can't remember this method actually working for anyone.

The most effective is to come out fast and be honest, well as honest as one can be when caught being a less than stellar human being. From all the scandals in sports you would think the criminals would figure out the people that admit to their mistakes right away are looked at much better in the history books.

Damn, that is a L-O-N-G list!

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by pariah1107

Damn, that is a L-O-N-G list!

I am bleary eyed and my head is dizzy from all the nay shaking it is doing.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

anyone else remember all of TJ Schwartz's holier than thou articles about the hobby? lol

Yup, used to be the first thing I turned to in Tuff Stuff

[iwantitiwinit]

Totally disgusting.

[bobbyw8469]

or if my account had been used to place a shill bid

Uhh....I think you would know if you shill bid or not. Besides...you've done a far worse thing.

[TNP777]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Uhh....I think you would know if you shill bid or not.

Well, of course I would. However, there seems to be some belief that people inside Mastro used bidder accounts without their knowledge - perhaps inactive accounts?

[prestigecollectibles]

I was shill bid on the T206 Wagner I won for $160,000 for a client of mine in their 2007 live auction. Wow, what a mess this is.

[glynparson]

"Can't wait for the next Hauls Of Shame. Should be a good one."


I think he should say my stuff may have been fake but at least I wasn't a shill bidder. Honestly don't give a rats arse what grandmaster b has to say about it. I am sure it will mostly be about the one freaking lot where Rob's name appears as a consignor. Too many people give him way to much credit. This thread was a much better read than however he will spin it.

[bbeck]

Originally Posted by glynparson

"Can't wait for the next Hauls Of Shame. Should be a good one."


I think he should say my stuff may have been fake but at least I wasn't a shill bidder. Honestly don't give a rats arse what grandmaster b has to say about it. I am sure it will mostly be about the one freaking lot where Rob's name appears as a consignor. Too many people give him way to much credit. This thread was a much better read than however he will spin it.

As I once said before , he is like the Jose Canseco of memorabilia, one of the worst offenders, people do not want to believe him, but in the end.....

[bcornell]

Per Andrew Moore, "The Government only identified a 'victim' for 347 of the 2,463 auctions". It's pretty obvious that the 2000+ auctions that don't list victims actually do have them. I was somewhat sympathetic to Doug Allen's plea not to do 57 months in jail, but I'm over that now.

Another thing to remember (and there's a lot to take in here) is that this list is just for those years where Mastro didn't destroy their records. This list would likely be much, much longer if they had that info.

Bill

[Exhibitman]

There are some entries that are clearly instances where Mastro exploited a winner's max bid by running up the total: Peter Spaeth's name shows up as a shill bidder and winner on one entry [August 2007]. Chad Dreier is shown on one as well [see June 2007]. I don't believe either of those guys had anything to do with Mastro's scheme; I do believe both were cheated as a result.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

There are some entries that are clearly instances where Mastro exploited a winner's max bid by running up the total: Peter Spaeth's name shows up as a shill bidder and winner on one entry [August 2007]. Chad Dreier is shown on one as well [see June 2007]. I don't believe either of those guys had anything to do with Mastro's scheme; I do believe both were cheated as a result.

Could you please walk me through how you came to the conclusion that this is "clearly and instance where Mastro exploited a winner's max bid"? What do you base that on? I don't see the logic....at all .

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Could you please walk me through how you came to the conclusion that this is "clearly and instance where Mastro exploited a winner's max bid"? What do you base that on? I don't see the logic....at all .

Sure. It is phantom bidding, exactly the same concept as the Broadway Rick's Strike Zone scam on eBay several years ago: the auction operator runs up a top bidder on an item by a few bid increments. The bidder thinks he won the item for say $100 when in reality it should have closed at $70. The winner wasn't competing against anyone, he was just charged a couple of bid increments above where his bid should have been by a dishonest auctioneer.