Blatantly Hacked and Kudos to Rob Lifson PSA should be ashamed!

[danmckee]

There are several PSA high graded cards in REA that Rob mentions that he feels they are trimmed.

This one is an obvious hack job and PSA should be ashamed of themselves!

This is embarrassing!

Kudos to Rob Lifson for being honest!

PSA should buy these and pull them, but their upper management is garbage!

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...emid=24741#pic

[atx840]

Dan you're such a PSA hat..er...wait you're right. Looks like PSA 8 is the new Authentic.

Good for REA.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Well Dan, it is all just opinions and you know what they say about those. On the other side of the coin, I have had a recent wake up call about my own mortality, (such is the frailty of the human condition). Knowing that my only heir will be my daughter, and she doesn't know Casey Stengal from Casey Wise, I have had a change of heart and now prefer a card to be encapsulated and graded by a TPG. And of the 3 big dogs in TPGs PSA is the best to me. Just my opinion. I would like to take this opportunity to publicly apologize to J. O. as I am sure I have insulted him in the past. PeaceDave. ps BTW Dan you have some fantabulous stuff for sale. VERY impressive.

[MattyC]

I'd rather send them back to PSA and have PSA make good on their policy than put them up and have REA call them trimmed. PSA does make good when they blow it like that.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'd rather send them back to PSA and have PSA make good on their policy than put them up and have REA call them trimmed. PSA does make good when they blow it like that.

I have never heard of a collector of PSA 8 (or higher) slabs actually sending cards back to PSA because they feel they are trimmed. If PSA couldn't tell a card was trimmed BEFORE it was hidden behind plastic (and PSA are the experts), then how can a lowly collector tell AFTER it is entombed? Doesn't make sense to me

[cyseymour]

REA opined that a T206 PSA 8 Frank Chance was trimmed a few years back, and it didn't make the slightest bit of difference in the sale price. In fact, it sold for more than what those cards were typically going for back then.

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2009/238.html

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I have never heard of a collector of PSA 8 (or higher) slabs actually sending cards back to PSA because they feel they are trimmed. If PSA couldn't tell a card was trimmed BEFORE it was hidden behind plastic (and PSA are the experts), then how can a lowly collector tell AFTER it is entombed? Doesn't make sense to me

It's happened; I've done it myself one time with several PSA 9s and 10s (1970s cards) I felt were trimmed/short. They concurred the cards were bad, a settlement was reached, and the cards were taken out of circulation. I guess mistakes get made but they can be corrected, at least to some extent.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by atx840

PSA 8 is the new Authentic

Nice

+1

[drc]

Hell, it looks as if someone went at those with a rototiller.

Just a joke. No one sue me.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by danmckee

There are several PSA high graded cards in REA that Rob mentions that he feels they are trimmed.

This one is an obvious hack job and PSA should be ashamed of themselves!

This is embarrassing!

Kudos to Rob Lifson for being honest!

PSA should buy these and pull them, but their upper management is garbage!

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...emid=24741#pic

Dan - I thought that we agreed the other day that if a card is in a slab that it is authentic and unaltered. Why the sudden change of heart?

[atx840]

Ashamed? What? The "#1" TPG says its good, REA thinks otherwise and is letting its bidders know to be careful and bid accordingly. They are choosing to protect and inform its bidders, integrity over commission, yet still bringing a nice card to market.

[calvindog]

"Ashamed?" This is hilarious. REA is the only AH which provides more information than the bidding public legally deserves by disclosing its opinion that certain cards are trimmed -- and it has reason to be "ashamed?" You're on crack. Bill Mastro and Doug Allen ripped off their friends for years and until recently the majority of the posters on this board protected and defended them -- but Rob Lifson should be "ashamed" for selling an altered card in a numeric holder and telling the truth. Do you think the buyers of such cards will disclose the same when they turn around and sell them?

[MVSNYC]

Dan, et al- are there other T206's in REA that they say might be trimmed, or just this one? Just curious, as I'm already bidding on a ton of the 8's and curious if I might've missed that in some of the descriptions. I'll also go back and check. I think I have a good eye, and usually try to bid only on cards with full borders...if they look short or narrow, I steer clear.

And yes, kudos to Rob & team. They're presenting it honestly and it's up to the bidders to bid or not.

[philliesphan]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Dan, et al- are there other T206's in REA that they say might be trimmed, or just this one? .

There are fourteen PSA 8's in the REA auction that all include the phrase "very slight trim" along one of the edges. Please look at link below for additional details:

http://bit.ly/17xXapJ

[CMIZ5290]

Still don't know how Reulbach is not one of them, it almost looks miscut top to bottom....

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by philliesphan

There are fourteen PSA 8's in the REA auction that all include the phrase "very slight trim" along one of the edges. Please look at link below for additional details:

http://bit.ly/17xXapJ

I'm sorry, but this is horrible in my opinion (I know many people do not agree). These cards are obviously trimmed and it IS their responsibility to turn these cards away.

I admit, 4 out of 5 auction houses would sell these cards without any sort of disclaimer, but is this acceptable? Just because the status quo is "it's good if it came from PSA" doesn't mean it's an acceptable practice to dump your trimmed cards onto another person. Yes, the buyer MAY not care, but somewhere down the line these will change hands and change hands again and they will eventually end up in the collection of someone who does care. If REA's policy is, "we said they were trimmed so our hands are clean" then I will stick to my guns and say, they should be ashamed.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by howard38

True. Is there any chance that the card is not trimmed?

I'd say the chance is trim-to-none.

[lharri3600]

Rob did not one thing wrong here, it's clearly stated at REA's web site about these issues.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by lharri3600

Rob did not one thing wrong here, it's clearly stated at REA's web site about these issues.

I'm glad the issues are stated, but the fact that he is allowing these into enter the marketplace is kind of astonishing.

What if Pepis decided to consign his massive collection of fraudulent packs?

This is no different.

What if REA took the consignment and wrote, "In our opinion these packs might be tampered, but that's just our opinion, others might disagree." It would be gross negligence on their part. Yes, they wrote a little disclaimer and won't be held liable, but it is extremely unethical.

These cards are like currency to fraudulent sellers. They are trimmed cards that got past PSA. Everyone here KNOWS that these cards will exchange hands more than 2 or 3 more times within the next decade, will they always carry a disclaimer? No. Will potential buyers know that these are trimmed? Probably not. And will it eventually end up in a collection of someone who cares about the integrity of the card... Yes, of course it will.

REA is acting as the middle man for compromised cards, they are doing the hobby a disservice by allowing these cards to enter into the market.

Kudos to them for going above and beyond the typical AH by including a disclaimer, but that SHOULDN'T be the highest standard of integrity in this hobby.. everyone here loves REA (I do too), but everyone here KNOWS they could have (and should have) done more.

Jason

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

. ... but everyone here KNOWS they could have (and should have) done more.

Jason

From the responses given, no they don't.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Leon

From the responses given, no they don't.

So no one has a problem with these cards entering the market as is? Wow.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Leon

From the responses given, no they don't.

+1..

[tschock]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

REA is acting as the middle man for compromised cards, they are doing the hobby a disservice by allowing these cards to enter into the market.... but everyone here KNOWS they could have (and should have) done more.
Jason

Everyone doesn't "know" this. So, what SHOULD REA have done with the cards? Please explain what REA (legally) could have done to PROHIBIT these cards from entering the market.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

"He" didn't allow anything to enter the marketplace. PSA did that when they graded them.

I 100% agree with this, it is on PSA to fix this problem, I emailed Joe Orlando with a link to the auction lots in question. None-the-less, it is up to the consignor, consignee, bidders and us to help keep these bad cards off the market.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Jason, what we have here is differences of opinion between PSA and REA/consignor (whom I tend to agree with). What do you expect to happen here? Do you believe the consignor should send them back to PSA for re-evaluation? Ok, but what if PSA sticks by their opinion? What if they say the cards are fine? Then what is the consignor supposed to do? And who's to say that wasn't already done?

Personally, I don't think this is a simple "difference in opinion". I have been tracking a lot of these older flips for a while. There were several dozen (probably more) high grade, trimmed cards that got past PSA and entered the market. I haven't seen too many newer flips with this isue - I would like to believe that whatever was causing this (a problem grader, a lenient environment or lack of knowledge) was fixed. Hopefully if these cards were re-evaluated by PSA they would be slabbed "authentic".

Originally Posted by tschock

Everyone doesn't "know" this. So, what SHOULD REA have done with the cards? Please explain what REA (legally) could have done to PROHIBIT these cards from entering the market.

I think they should have declined the consignment.

Or, I think they should have sent the cards in to be re-evaluated. I have consigned plenty of items to these auction houses and whenever I have a group of nicer raw cards they always foot the bill to have them graded for me. There is potentially $20,000+ in trimmed cards here - around $4,000 in buyer's premiums alone. I think that it is negligent to not have them checked out before listing. It would've cost them less than $200 and IF they came back okay from PSA, then include the disclaimer and tell people you had them reevaluated and viola! you bring in more money and you make back your $200.