Show your T206 card(s) that are more scarce than the JOE DOYLE NAT'L card

[tedzan]

There are only 8 authentic Joe Doyle Nat'L cards confirmed to date.

It has been referred to as the "rarest" T206 card by some in the hobby.

Well....I don't think so ! And I don't think you do either. So, let's see how many T206's we can post here that are more rare than the "rarest".


I will get this show on the road with these four Detroit dudes with AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 backs. As of today, each one of these T206's are
less available than the Joe Doyle Nat'L card.














1 of only 2 graded




Incidently, why was my Jennings graded an "A" ....I don't understand how a grader determines if an AB 460 card is trimmed ?
I look forward to any reasonable explanation of this ? ?


OK guys......post your rare T206 cards......also, Joe Doyle Nat'L cards are welcomed



TED Z
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[Sean1125]

Try to regrade that Jennings imo. Have had more slim ABS graded numerically.

[tedzan]

Highest graded of only 4 that have been graded

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TED Z
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[MVSNYC]

Hi Ted- AB 460's are tuffer than most people think...

I used to own this Jennings example, it sold recently on eBay. Seems like it went for a steal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Hugh-Hu...vip=true&rt=nc

Not suggesting this is scarcer than the Doyle (although it might be), but here's my Wheat AB 460.

PS- This Hoblitzel Blank Back is the only known example.

[atx840]

Not sure this will meet Runscott's no scrap criteria but I would think its a 1/1.

[Robextend]

Only 4 graded, however there are probably at least few more out there....



One of 4 graded, however this one isn't even showing on the SGC pop report...can't trust those too much I suppose:

[ValKehl]

Possibly, this WaJo. Pop reports show 4 for SGC and 1 for PSA (but not mine, which I assume was graded before PSA distinguished backs in its pop report).

[GregMitch34]

Well, famously, one and only ever created.

http://www.net54baseball.com/attachm...1&d=1420713798

[mrvster]

and collectors....



where to begin.....


shall I unleash the circus???????


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........





not sure if I want to ruin it before the 2016 national.....

[mrvster]

The scraps are INSANE!!

not to take away from the other cards...but WOW!!!

most scraps are only 1 of 1's....with some with "twins" or "sister" cards, with very few scraps ever had more than 4 twins!!! if you will, saved from the scrap sheet over 100 years ago....

Dunn is on another level....card was part of the design stage of the set....UNREAL!!! proofs will be explained more in the future...we are still researching them, and they are incredible

true pieces of "history" "works" of ART inmho....

WOW....

Hobby BB is also another incredible card...possibly involved with the design of the set...blank backs are one of the most under rated scrap/ back in the set inmho(biased of course)

these cards BLOW Doyle away in rarity....

6 to 8x rarer....

WOW...

you own one....you literally own a piece of history

INSANE CARDS

[Bigb13]

image.jpg

[mrvster]

be an AWESOME thread.............

[Bigb13]

image.jpg

[bn2cardz]

When it is referred to as the rarest t206 that is a reference to the front variations only. If the t206 set was broke out by backs then the different combos would be worth using as a comparison, but since a t206 set collector isn't typically a master set collector there statement of "rarest t206" is only in regards to the front. If it didn't than even the Wagner and Plank Piedmonts would be considered rarer than the Doyle.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

When it is referred to as the rarest t206 that is a reference to the front variations only. If the t206 set was broke out by backs then the different combos would be worth using as a comparison, but since a t206 set collector isn't typically a master set collector there statement of "rarest t206" is only in regards to the front. If it didn't than even the Wagner and Plank Piedmonts would be considered rarer than the Doyle.

I appreciate what you are saying; however, by your definition this Ambrose Puttman card can be considered the "rarest"....as it's back is irrelevant.

Furthermore, you refer to a "typical" T206 collector....it's been my experience dealing with many T206 collectors for the past 33 years....that after they have put together a
near complete T206 set....it doesn't stop there.

The Monster has you "addicted". Many collectors will continue the hunt for player sub-sets with all their possible backs. Or, team sets of players with all their possible backs.







TED Z

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[mrvster]

I was waiting for it!!!!!!! send that to the resource proof gallery

[Bigb13]

As fronts variation this is 1 of 1image.jpg

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I appreciate what you are saying; however, by your definition this Ambrose Puttman card can be considered the "rarest"....as it's back is irrelevant.







TED Z

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No by my definition that still wouldn't qualify. That is clearly a t206 proof, not a t206 that was to be mass produced but changed in the process (Like the Doyle and Magie).

[QUOTE=tedzan;1363972]

Furthermore, you refer to a "typical" T206 collector....it's been my experience dealing with many T206 collectors for the past 33 years....that after they have put together a
near complete T206 set....it doesn't stop there.

The Monster has you "addicted". Many collectors will continue the hunt for player sub-sets with all their possible backs. Or, team sets of players with all their possible backs.

TED Z

I didn't refer to a "typical" t206 collector. I referred to a typcial t206 set collector. In which case the set is defined by one of each front with exclusion to what is on the back. There are tough front/back combos but they come into play for other subsets, in which case new "rarities" are defined. For instance if you are trying to build a set of just the backs, you may say the Old Mill Brown is the rarest, and Piedmont 350 is the easiest to find even though a Shaw Piedmont 350 isn't easy. So you are mixing two thought processes.

Your original statement about the rarest t206 being the Doyle is made in reference to building a front set not in regards to a full Master Set with all the front and back combos.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

No by my definition that still wouldn't qualify. That is clearly a t206 proof, not a t206 that was to be mass produced but changed in the process (Like the Doyle and Magie).


I didn't refer to a "typical" t206 collector. I referred to a typcial t206 set collector. In which case the set is defined by one of each front with exclusion to what is on the back.

Andy

"RARITY" .... is a function of a market driven phenomena. Therefore, it is collector based. And, there are a fair number of T206 collectors that seek certain front / back combos,
printing flaws, and yes...Proofs. I think you will agree that not all collectors strive to complete a 520-card (or whatever) T206 set.

Secondly, Sports and Non-Sports Sets since the 19th Century that are comprised of cards that have printing on their fronts and backs are defined by both factors. They cannot
be considered separate entities [i.e. Set A (fronts), Set B (backs)].


I do not want to get into a semantics discussion here. That's not the purpose of this thread. It was intended to have some fun showing off Net54er's various scarce T206 cards.


TED Z
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[tedzan]

1 of only 2 graded (Highest graded)
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TED Z
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[Runscott]

Originally Posted by atx840

Not sure this will meet Runscott's no scrap criteria but I would think its a 1/1.

Hey, my suggested thread was ignored, so leave me out of this.

Beautiful proof, by the way.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Ted, why don't you start a thread "T206's that are more scarce than a T206 Wagner"?

Originally Posted by Runscott

Hey, my suggested thread was ignored, so leave me out of this.

So, what is thread about....if it isn't what you suggested ? ?

I changed the "benchmark" to the Joe Doyle Nat'l card, since this card is an order of magnitude less available than the Wagner card.
Just to make things more interesting.


T-Rex TED
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[wolf441]

Ted, I think that Germany Schaeffer UZIT is one of the coolest cards that I've ever seen!!

I'm sure my first Uzit is still a few years down the road, but that is the type of card that I would want. It would probably only grade authentic, but I think the punch out pattern makes it all that much more interesting!! Once again, I'm floored by one of your cards!

Great thread everyone!!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by wolf441

Ted, I think that Germany Schaeffer UZIT is one of the coolest cards that I've ever seen!!

I'm sure my first Uzit is still a few years down the road, but that is the type of card that I would want. It would probably only grade authentic, but I think the punch out pattern makes it all that much more interesting!! Once again, I'm floored by one of your cards!

Great thread everyone!!

This Schaefer card is the first UZIT that I acquired when I started putting together my T206 sub-set of the various T-brands.
I got this card at the Cooperstown Show in the Summer of 1989. I paid only $20 for it.

Also, I like the bold blue ink back on this card. Many UZIT cards have pale blue backs.






TED Z
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[MVSNYC]

Ted- yes, majority of Uzits have faded backs...here's mine, one of the boldest i've ever seen.

[tedzan]

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TED Z
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________
LOOKING for these T206 guys to complete my EXCLUSIVE 12 run of OLD MILL cards (12 subjects)

..... Duffy ..... Gandil ..... Geyer ..... Hummel ..... Pfeffer ..... Sheckard ..... Tannehill ..... Wheat
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[edjs]

So I asked Ted if my Mullin SC 350/460 Fac. 42 OP was more rare than the Doyle, and he suggested I post it here and get feedback from you all. So, what do you think? It is not too pretty, and not worth a lot, but just how rare is it? Just for fun.

Ed

[kdixon]

Ungraded Wheat.

[tedzan]

The AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 Zach Wheat cards are quite plentiful. And, so are the 11 other T206 subjects in the group of T206's that I refer to as the "Exclusive 12".

These 12 subjects were multi-printed with respect to other T206's in the 460 series. Some of the tougher backs that these guys are more available than other T206's
are red HINDU, SOVEREIGN 460, and SWEET CAPORAL 460 (Factory 42).

The backs that these 12 guys are rarely found with are CYCLE 460, EPDG, and especially OLD MILL and UZIT.









TED Z
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[tedzan]

Check-out this AMERICAN BEAUTY thread in order to get an idea which AB 460 subjects are the low Pop cards.

Also, if you are interested, I will list them.



TED Z
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[tedzan]

I acquired this BROAD LEAF Hal Chase many years ago in a trade with a great ole buddy of mine from North Carolina. Little did I know at that time that it was unique.
Well, this past year a 2nd BROAD LEAF Hal Chase has been discovered.


............................................... v....... 1 of only 2 ........v
........v




TED Z
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[tedzan]

I forgot to note in the previous post that the 1910 COUPON blue portrait Chase is another low pop card.
I cannot say for sure how many of these T213's are in circulation; but, only 4 blue Chase's are graded.


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TED Z
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[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I forgot to note in the previous post that the 1910 COUPON blue portrait Chase is another low pop card.
I cannot say for sure how many of these T213's are in circulation; but, only 4 blue Chase's are graded.


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TED Z
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Ted, only you would post a Type-1 Coupon in a thread for T206s.

[Runscott]

What I like to call the "Wiltse Devil on my Shoulder"

Certainly one-of-a-kind, AND actually production, not scrap.

[atx840]

I got your back Ted.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Ted, only you would post a Type-1 Coupon in a thread for T206s.

It may surprise you, but there are a fair number of guys on this forum that agree with me.

I have yet to hear any logical arguments that disproves my case for these 1910 " COUPON " cards being a part of the T206 family.

The old bromide....."because Burdick says so".....just aint good enough.

Sean.....if it quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, then it's a T206


TED Z
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[Bigb13]

Great card Scott

[tedzan]

Pop reports indicate only 6 graded of this tough Cy Young / CYCLE 460

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TED Z
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[Thirteen]

One of my favorites...don't think there are many of these (?)

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by edjs

So I asked Ted if my Mullin SC 350/460 Fac. 42 OP was more rare than the Doyle, and he suggested I post it here and get feedback from you all. So, what do you think? It is not too pretty, and not worth a lot, but just how rare is it? Just for fun.

Ed

More Mullin(with bat) SC 460-42 OP than Doyle Nat'l

Around 2 - 1


Jantz

[mrvster]

100 % correct! a factory cut magenta ghost like that is super rare! very neat production error.............

[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

It may surprise you, but there are a fair number of guys on this forum that agree with me.

I have yet to hear any logical arguments that disproves my case for these 1910 " COUPON " cards being a part of the T206 family.

The old bromide....."because Burdick says so".....just aint good enough.

Sean.....if it quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, then it's a T206


TED Z
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Ted, it doesn't surprise me, because we've had this discussion many times.

My vote is not a T206 based on the different card stock. Maybe we should have a poll: T213 type-1 should or shouldn't be in the T206 set?
Same with the T215 type-1.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by Jantz

More Mullin(with bat) SC 460-42 OP than Doyle Nat'l

Around 2 - 1


Jantz

Thanks, Jantz. I really was curious, and I am happy to hear that ratio. Means this card is still pretty darn rare.
Ed

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Ted, it doesn't surprise me, because we've had this discussion many times.

My vote is not a T206 based on the different card stock. Maybe we should have a poll: T213 type-1 should or shouldn't be in the T206 set?
Same with the T215 type-1.

If that is the only reason you have, then please consider this:


American Litho. printed these cards in the Spring/Summer of 1910 on thinner stock because they were not intended to serve as "stiffeners" in cigarette
packs (as the other T206's did). NO standard cigarette pack labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes has been found. I don't expect that one will ever be found.

1910 COUPON cigarettes were marketed in cartons (11" x 3" x 2") labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes that contained 100's of this new brand of cigarettes.

The 1910 COUPON cards were included with (or inside) the carton. A few of these cartons have been found....I have seen one of them.


P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.


TED Z
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[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.

This sounds like every election held in America. And considering how well our elected government is working, you're right: a vote would be meaningless.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tedzan

...
P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.


TED Z
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That logic makes perfect sense.

Only the informed should be allowed to vote, and why not take it a step further and allow only the single MOST informed person to vote?

Ted, I agree with your logic, and I'll choose Burdick - I think he's as good a choice as any. If I were part of the pitchfork-carrying crowd storming the castle, I would be demanding that Burdick be my T206 dictator and do all of my thinking for me.

…or it could be Ted, it doesn't matter.

[tedzan]

We live in a " 1/3 world " ............

For example, did you know when George Washington crossed the Delaware river December 24th 1776 to attack Trenton, he had only 33 % of the Colonists
supporting him and his mission......

...... 33 % of the Colonists were loyal to the British, and

...... the other 33% couldn't be bothered to care, either way.

So, here we are 238 years since, and these same factors in human nature still exist.


Therefore, you know what...... I don't care who disagrees with me (and some members of this forum) ...... who believe that the 1910 COUPON cards are a
natural extension of the T206 set.


Incidently, if you really want to be informed, check-out Burdick's records and you'll find that his timeline on all three COUPON sets is 1914 - 1916.

So, we cannot fault him......he was unaware that the first series of COUPON cards were actually printed and issued in the Summer of 1910.



TED Z
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[asoriano]

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tedzan

We live in a " 1/3 world "......

For example, did you know when George Washington crossed the Delaware river December 24th 1776 to attack Trenton, he had only 33 % of the Colonists
supporting him and his mission......

...... 33 % of the Colonists were loyal to the British, and

...... the other 33% couldn't be bothered to care, either way.

So, here we are 238 years since, and these same factors in human nature still exist.


Therefore, you know what...... I don't care who disagrees with me (and some members of this forum) ...... who believe that the 1910 COUPON cards are a
natural extension of the T206 set.


Incidently, if you really want to be informed, check-out Burdick's records and you'll find that his timeline on all three COUPON sets is 1914 - 1916.

So, we cannot fault him......he was unaware that the first series of COUPON cards were actually printed and issued in the Summer of 1910.



TED Z
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And Ted, a big part of our hobby is categorizing things. Even as children, most of us piled up our cards by team, by position, by stats or even combined cards from different years. So I would never minimize the importance of deciding where the Coupons should be included.

In fact, I think I agreed with you on this, but having spoken with other forum members about this subject in depth, I think this topic is much like sheet-size - we'll never really know, so any well-thought-out theory defense is worth listening to, and certainly shouldn't cause anything more than heated discussion.

[mrvster]

That Ames Is INSANE!!

collectors haven't grasped yet the importance of those sweet cap 350-460 factory 30 NO OVERSTAMP!! that back is not possible with that player factory issued!! you got yours just in time......Jim R always stated how important and cool those y/b's sc 460's are.....

PLEASE POST THE IMPOSSIBLE COMBINATION BACK!

Once Chris B posts what we know so far, the will be highly sought after....



hint.....hint..............