This is the problem with grading...

[smtjoy]

Just my guess but if you look the same buyer purchased the PSA 8 from Probstein123 and then when it was upgraded to a PSA 9 and relisted they win the card again from Probstein123, sure looks like a consignor bidder/shill won his own card the second time so then they decide to consign it over to PWCC and they now know the ceiling bid of the two underbidders ($701.77 and $575) from the last auction. I wonder if they tried a second chance offer on the underbidder and they declined so just relist it with another consignor. This is getting old.

First sale won by - p***e

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1070wt_1038

Second sale after the upgrade from PSA to a 9, winning bidder is - p***e

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1050wt_1038

Now listed again by PWCC......

[Matthew H]

So it's ok for a consignor to buy his cards back from an auction???? This is not considered shilling as long as they pay the premium? I always assumed I was bidding against other potential buyers in an honest auction.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

So it's ok for a consignor to buy his cards back from an auction???? This is not considered shilling as long as they pay the premium? I always assumed I was bidding against other potential buyers in an honest auction.

It's not considered a shill. He placed one max bid, and as long as eBay gets paid, no problem.


Does anyone know it eBay has any specific rules about consignments? This is a relatively new area and while they prohibit (and prevent) someone from bidding on their own listing, I'm not sure that ownership is a qualifying factor currently.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by smtjoy

Just my guess but if you look the same buyer purchased the PSA 8 from Probstein123 and then when it was upgraded to a PSA 9 and relisted they win the card again from Probstein123, sure looks like a consignor bidder/shill won his own card the second time so then they decide to consign it over to PWCC and they now know the ceiling bid of the two underbidders ($701.77 and $575) from the last auction. I wonder if they tried a second chance offer on the underbidder and they declined so just relist it with another consignor. This is getting old.

First sale won by - p***e

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1070wt_1038

Second sale after the upgrade from PSA to a 9, winning bidder is - p***e

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1050wt_1038

Now listed again by PWCC......

According to the feedback given by the seller on Jun-07-12 22:25, the 8 was purchased by "kopitars_corner".

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by smtjoy

Just my guess but if you look the same buyer purchased the PSA 8 from Probstein123 and then when it was upgraded to a PSA 9 and relisted they win the card again from Probstein123, sure looks like a consignor bidder/shill won his own card the second time so then they decide to consign it over to PWCC and they now know the ceiling bid of the two underbidders ($701.77 and $575) from the last auction. I wonder if they tried a second chance offer on the underbidder and they declined so just relist it with another consignor. This is getting old.

Wow! As a seller, how could Probstein not know this? Especially when he mails the card and the auction check to the same address! But I'm sure someone will chime in, making excuses for him saying that he does a lot of volume, blah, blah, blah and doesn't pay attention to all that.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Wow! As a seller, how could Probstein not know this? Especially when he mails the card and the auction check to the same address! But I'm sure someone will chime in, making excuses for him saying that he does a lot of volume, blah, blah, blah and doesn't pay attention to all that.

Hmmm.... Moral outrage from a guy who dodges jury duty. How can anyone take it seriously considering the source.

Steve B

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Ok, I'll admit it. I've never served jury duty a day in my life (and I'm 41 years old). In my house, those notices get thrown away.

Think of me as you wish, but I work for a living and don't have time for that. I'm not trying to sound harsh, but let them call the people that are unemployeed and living on unemployment assistance. After all, we're giving them money, let them earn it.

I don't mean to offend anyone that's unemployeed, I've been there myself and wish that on no one. My point is that they have the time and there are plenty of folks to pool from (and they're being paid anyway).

Originally Posted by steve B

Hmmm.... Moral outrage from a guy who dodges jury duty. How can anyone take it seriously considering the source.

Steve B

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Wow. Great attitude.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by steve B

Hmmm.... Moral outrage from a guy who dodges jury duty. How can anyone take it seriously considering the source.

Steve B

When I made that statement, I knew it would offend some of the self righteous hypocrites on the board. Obviously it did. At least I have the balls to speak the truth, whether you agree with what I said or not.

I don’t see any difference between dodging jury duty or the other folks in that thread speaking of ways to dodge it or asking advice on how to dodge it. Why didn’t you address those folks? Because your comment wasn’t really about jury duty, was it? It was really a way to divert the attention from the real issue here - Probstein allowing his bidders to shill their own auctions.

The smart ones will see that and stick to the issue, the dumb ones will make additional comments about jury duty.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

When I made that statement, I knew it would offend some of the self righteous hypocrites on the board. Obviously it did. At least I have the balls to speak the truth, whether you agree with what I said or not.

Like

As long as you're having fun and the responses are not creating too much angst for you, I say go for it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

When I made that statement, I knew it would offend some of the self righteous hypocrites on the board. Obviously it did. At least I have the balls to speak the truth, whether you agree with what I said or not.

I don’t see any difference between dodging jury duty or the other folks in that thread speaking of ways to dodge it or asking advice on how to dodge it. Why didn’t you address those folks? Because your comment wasn’t really about jury duty, was it? It was really a way to divert the attention from the real issue here - Probstein allowing his bidders to shill their own auctions.

The smart ones will see that and stick to the issue, the dumb ones will make additional comments about jury duty.

David your statement does bother me, because the right to a jury trial -- which I very seriously doubt you want to do away with or compromise -- does depend on ordinary citizens cooperating with their civic obligations to serve. Does that make me a self-righteous hypocrite?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Does that make me a self-righteous hypocrite?

Only if you choose to use my words against me, while ignoring the others in that thread who also shared ways or asked advice on how to get out of jury duty. Now, if you wish to continue to discuss the topic, let's move it over to that thread.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Now, if you wish to continue to discuss the topic, let's move it over to that thread.

Agreed...and thanks to all for keeping it civil while arguing .


.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

When I made that statement, I knew it would offend some of the self righteous hypocrites on the board. Obviously it did. At least I have the balls to speak the truth, whether you agree with what I said or not.

I don’t see any difference between dodging jury duty or the other folks in that thread speaking of ways to dodge it or asking advice on how to dodge it. Why didn’t you address those folks? Because your comment wasn’t really about jury duty, was it? It was really a way to divert the attention from the real issue here - Probstein allowing his bidders to shill their own auctions.

The smart ones will see that and stick to the issue, the dumb ones will make additional comments about jury duty.

I didn't participate in the other thread so I'll reply to those accusations here. As I said, I didn't participate in the other thread. Mostly because my advice would be to stay.
I've been called 3 times, and served all 3. Mass has a one day one trial system. Twice I never got to the courtroom, third time I was dismissed almost immediately. (Date rape trial, I was 35 and single. The prosecutor sent me home. If he'd only known my attitude towards some things. )

I don't shill bid.

So no hypocrisy here.

I didn't address other folks, because most of them were mentioning legitimate reasons for not serving. That's part of the system, and someone can be excused before serving if the court finds the reason acceptable.

I did make my comment because you chose to push your hypocrisy by reviving a thread that had pretty much faded to an end. Yes, you have the balls to speak the truth as you see it. Which is fine but annoying as heck if it's just restating the same stuff over again.

And, some on topic questions.

Do you sell on Ebay?
Do you run thousands of auctions every month?
If yes do you check the ID of every bidder on every auction to make sure it's not the consigner?
Do you check the relationships of every bidder to make sure they aren't the consigners friends/relatives?
If so, how do you find the time? Probstein has over 21,000 current items and just over 3000 auctions. If checking took only one minute each that would be more than 48 hours of work

He's already said he blocked the consigner. I'm not sure just what you expect him to do? Block all consigners who are probably also customers? Ebay won't let you block buyers from one auction but not another.

Realistically, all someone can do with that sort of volume is block them if they're caught.

I do think there's something with the consignor and PSA that should be looked into. If I was in charge of PSA I would. But It would also be kept as an internal matter unless I found a big problem.

Steve Birmingham

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

...the dumb ones will make additional comments about jury duty.

Hello, Steve

[steve B]

What? No answers to the on topic questions? I can use smaller words if you need that.

Steve B

[Matthew H]

Let's just all agree that shill bidding is ok, as long as its in a place where it's too hard to police it.

Thread over.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Wow! As a seller, how could Probstein not know this? Especially when he mails the card and the auction check to the same address! But I'm sure someone will chime in, making excuses for him saying that he does a lot of volume, blah, blah, blah and doesn't pay attention to all that.

I'm sure Probstein is quite aware of the situation, and we honestly have no way of knowing how/if they're handling it. I would hope they would no longer accept consignments from this person/user.

The solution is quite simple really. The problem here is that Probstein has no power as the Ebay seller, as per Ebay's rules, to not complete the transaction with the winning bidder unless specific conditions are listed in the auctions. Probsten would have to, and more importanly should have to, specifically write into their auction listing that the consignor is not eligible to bid on the auction. And they should require any consignor to release to them their Ebay ID prior to listing.

[Matthew H]

I've always wondered what's the point of consigning an item to a seller on eBay... Now I know! It's a legal shilling loophole! Wow what a bunh of greedy bastards.

[ullmandds]

matt...agreed!!! It shouldn't really matter who's selling a card on ebay(as long as it's real and not missrepresented).