Increcible prices for PWCC auctions

[Bwstew]

Did y'all see the Cobb that was tore in half and glued back together bring $415?

[scotgreb]

and he bid on just 5 auctions in the past 30 days, all in PWCC auctions! . . .

If you do any amount of research you'll find this is very common with PWCC auctions (and maybe other consignment sellers for all I know).

Some people care -- some people don't

[HRBAKER]

Some people know -- most people don't

[Gradedcardman]

I will NOT use them again as I don't bid on my consignments.

[Runscott]

I'd like to hear from the consignors who DO bid on their own consignments.

Surely we have someone on this board who's brazen enough to speak up?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Frank, I don't have a problem with two people putting a high snipe in -- it just seems bizarre that the underbidder only bids on PWCC auctions. And this isn't the first time such a thing has has happened in a PWCC auction. Or the second time. Or the third time.

Edited to add: this is not to say this is the auctioneer's fault -- it could be the consignor.

+1....

[Peter_Spaeth]

PWCC posted on CU recently in response to charges of scan manipulation.

"In particular, we are writing in response to baseless claims that we somehow are manipulating our scans. Such accusations are ridiculous and I ask that folks please remain substantive in their accusations of any company (not just PWCC). We are not altering our scans, in fact we go to great length to ensure the images we provide are as close to life-like as humanly possible. Obviously, if we were altering images we'd have plenty of upset buyers... right? Aside from the obvious moral objection associated with this level of misrepresentation, the shear workload associated with having to manipulate scans would be stagging. So even if you don't trust us personally, perhaps you can trust the practical impossibility of such an accusation."

I can't speak to intent, but PWCC's scans do not look realistic to me, they look thermonuclear.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

PWCC posted on CU recently in response to charges of scan manipulation.

"In particular, we are writing in response to baseless claims that we somehow are manipulating our scans. Such accusations are ridiculous and I ask that folks please remain substantive in their accusations of any company (not just PWCC). We are not altering our scans, in fact we go to great length to ensure the images we provide are as close to life-like as humanly possible. Obviously, if we were altering images we'd have plenty of upset buyers... right? Aside from the obvious moral objection associated with this level of misrepresentation, the shear workload associated with having to manipulate scans would be stagging. So even if you don't trust us personally, perhaps you can trust the practical impossibility of such an accusation."

I can't speak to intent, but PWCC's scans do not look realistic to me, they look thermonuclear.

Kind of hard to take a guy seriously who has so many obviously shilled auctions and claims a 'moral' objection to any fraud.

[Matthew H]

How the Hell do you "go to great lengths to make images as close to life-like as possible"?????? just do the scan and leave it alone!

[glchen]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Love PWCC auctions! Won this one the other night:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=140956616869

The underbidder bid $178 more than the bidder below -- and he bid on just 5 auctions in the past 30 days, all in PWCC auctions!

This was my consignment, and I can promise that I did not shill or safety bid this card or have any of my friends do the same. Note that I also consigned this same card but in a different tint in a recent Goodwin auction, and I was also the consignor of the Wajos if this same issue that went in both this one and Goodwin.

[calvindog]

Well, at least we can narrow down the guilty party to the auction house.

[bobbyw8469]

When a PSA 6 sells for as much, if not more than a PSA 8, it is mind boggling to me as well. Just a shred of research and a little common sense will tell you what a fair market price for a particular item is. When the above scenario happens though, it definitely smells fishy to me. This hobby has so many scenarios and sub-scenarios though - it would blow your mind if you knew everything that went on. I blame the almighty dollar....

[calvindog]

You "blame the almighty dollar?" How about blaming the guy who was responsible for shill bidding?

[bobbyw8469]

For the card that I saw, the shill bid stopped at $33. There were still two other "sensible" bidders who bid it up past the PSA 8 level, totally ignoring the big coke spill stain on the back of the card.

[bobbyw8469]

You "blame the almighty dollar?" How about blaming the guy who was responsible for shill bidding?

And CalvinDog....not to be flippant or anything, but what do you think the shill bidder's motivation is? World peace??

[calvindog]

Bobby, I'm more about blaming the shooter, not the gun. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Runscott]

.....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Well, at least we can narrow down the guilty party to the auction house.

Careful Jeffrey you will get yourself banned!!

[Deertick]

Which is it? Manipulating scans to "to ensure the images we provide are as close to life-like as humanly possible." or "the shear workload associated with having to manipulate scans would be stagg(er)ing."?

Intentional or not, the scans are hot. They sure don't look like factory default settings. And if someones job is ensuring "the images we provide are as close to life-like as humanly possible.", they aren't manipulating them properly.

[calvindog]

Jim, you forget to mention the moral issues attendant to such manipulations.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hmmm .... which scan probably looks more like the card?

[CW]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Well, at least we can narrow down the guilty party to the auction house.

I would think the auction house would have a lot more to lose should they win the item themselves and then have to relist it, than they would have to gain from a few extra dollars commission by bidding an item up to $400.

Also, if the auction house were doing the actual shill bidding here, and they have a habit of doing so, wouldn't they have specific accounts that don't have 100% bid activity with PWCC, so that this wouldn't seem like such "obvious" shill bidding?

I am not naive enough to think shill bidding and scan manipulations do not occur with regularity in this hobby. I just feel that now we've learned that the consignor (Gary) did not do the shill bidding on the postcard w/ Ty Cobb, this may just be a case of another collector driving the price up with a snipe.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Hmmm .... which scan probably looks more like the card?

Morality tells me the one on the left.

[Seattle799]

Originally Posted by CW

Also, if the auction house were doing the actual shill bidding here, and they have a habit of doing so, wouldn't they have specific accounts that don't have 100% bid activity with PWCC, so that this wouldn't seem like such "obvious" shill bidding?

Not necessarily... if ebay isn't going to do anything about it, why bother trying to make it look less obvious

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by CW

I just feel that now we've learned that the consignor (Gary) did not do the shill bidding on the postcard w/ Ty Cobb, this may just be a case of another collector driving the price up with a snipe.

Again, the issue is not with the snipe -- it is with the fact that the underbidder (and many underbidders in PWCC auctions) is only bidding in PWCC auctions.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Hmmm .... which scan probably looks more like the card?

Bill Mastro's priest says the one on the left too.

[DeanH3]

I agree with Chuck. It would be hard to believe that AH's would be dumb enough to leave such an obvious trail if they were indeed shilling their own auctions. But then again, "dumber" things have happened.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sigh.

[t206fix]

I wonder how much VCP has to do with these prices. Now I like VCP, and use it once in awhile. But once, when I was thinking about buying a SGC W511 Babe Ruth card, I checked VCP and the average price was around $300, and the card was going for about this. So I normally don't do this, but I checked the last sale of the card, and guess what - it was being sold by the same exact seller with matching sgc# for $331, which artificially pushed the price up (according to VCP) due to this previous "auction". So I am not sure if someone returned the cards or what, but the data was still registering on VCP, hence the higher price (I don't use VCP currently so I'm not sure what it would have been if this card did not "sell" previously for $300+).

Since then, this same seller has sold 2 more of the same card/different numbers. So if sellers knew how to play the game right, you simply drive up the "sold" price and make sure it registers with VCP, and then after that, the other cards you have in the same grade are worth that much. With out this bump, let's say that the VCP card is only worth $175, then all the rest of these cards will sell around that price since the last one sold was 2006 or so -

Just my two-cent conspiracy theory -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-W511-1-...item589ba08f19

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-W511-1-...item589d73a32e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-W511-Bl...item589ecddd1c


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-W511-1-...item53f7c76390

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

I agree with Chuck. It would be hard to believe that AH's would be dumb enough to leave such an obvious trail if they were indeed shilling their own auctions. But then again, "dumber" things have happened.

Ask Mastro and Allen about leaving an obvious trail of evidence on their fraud....

[glchen]

I contacted PWCC who provided me with the underbidder for the Exhibits Cobb auction (which I already sent to Jeff). If anyone else wants the ebay id, please let me know. Thanks.

[scotgreb]

[Peter_Spaeth]

World record shattered by 50 percent.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Topps-S...p2047675.l2557

[calvindog]

That's not moral!

[HRBAKER]

That may be the orangest back I've ever seen on a '64.

[tothrk]

I got a chuckle when I clicked the link for the 64 Mantle. Above the listing, where ebay suggests alternatives to the auction in case you were outbid, is another PSA 8 '64 Mantle for a BUY IT NOW price of $430 less. Even more impressive than shattering the world record by 50% is the fact that they made a but it now price look like a bargain.

[bobbyw8469]

Lmfao!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tothrk

I got a chuckle when I clicked the link for the 64 Mantle. Above the listing, where ebay suggests alternatives to the auction in case you were outbid, is another PSA 8 '64 Mantle for a BUY IT NOW price of $430 less. Even more impressive than shattering the world record by 50% is the fact that they made a but it now price look like a bargain.

That was a BIN with an offer. I am sure they would take less.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Leon that card does not have a thermonuclear orange back. Or the conspicuous white spot above the lettering. Apples to oranges.

[Runscott]

I think this card just proves that collectors really are listening to those of us who have been saying: "Buy the scan, not the holder"

[bobbyw8469]

I think this card just proves that collectors really are listening to those of us who have been saying: "Buy the scan, not the holder

If I sell this exact same card...same cert # and everything - I don't break $700......just sayin'! I find it hilarious that the card brought 4 figures.

[glchen]

For the 64 Mantle card, if you look at the feedback that PWCC provided, the ebay buyer for that card is the following: Link

This is my guess as the underbidder for the 64 Mantle auction (just looked for bidders with same # feedback): Link

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

If I sell this exact same card...same cert # and everything - I don't break $700......just sayin'! I find it hilarious that the card brought 4 figures.

For the 50 percent over world record I can only hope the consignment was from a legitimate source.

[deadballfreaK]

Good grief. I have to go beat my head against a wall. 64 Mantles were so common that you couldn't even trade one for a Ted Savage. I used to open a pack of 64s and pitch em in the trash if I had them already. I probably threw away 10 mint Mantles.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by deadballfreaK

Good grief. I have to go beat my head against a wall. 64 Mantles were so common that you couldn't even trade one for a Ted Savage. I used to open a pack of 64s and pitch em in the trash if I had them already. I probably threw away 10 mint Mantles.

I never got a dup Mantle that I can remember, but I did seem to always get my one per year.

[deadballfreaK]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I never got a dup Mantle that I can remember, but I did seem to always get my one per year.

64 was my first year of buying cards and I went in whole hog. Mantle was in the first series and I wound up with 20 of everybody before completing it. The two cards I could never get in the set were Pete Rose and Willie Mays. My next door neighbor was a Giant and Mays fan and he had the only Mays in town. He wouldn't part with it for ANYTHING! Took me 5 years to get it from him and by then it was a little beat up. That card is in my collection to this day. It meant too much to me to upgrade. I just had an idea though. I think I will upgrade and send it back to my old buddy who lives 1000 miles away now. He probably still regrets giving that card up.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Thought I would give this a 'bump" PWCC has just listed a nice selection of cards, even 19th cent. I see a couple I will shoot for, but he has been getting incredible prices as of late. I'll probably get shut out. Dave.

[insccollectibles]

I've had exceptional service but noticed some items going for more than market price. Could be due to the volume of auctions available which in turn brings outs more bidders?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Put on your sunglasses and view the offering!

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Put on your sunglasses and view the offering!

Whatever you say, Princess.