NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 06-05-2019, 11:45 AM
pgconboy's Avatar
pgconboy pgconboy is offline
Peirce Conboy
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: CA by way of MN
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Hamilton View Post
So quick update here... i decided i just couldnt have the card in my collection... i would always wonder and feel bad selling to someone else without certainty it was unaltered. I decided to take the high route and write a polite email to Brent at PWCC. Here is what I wrote:

"Brent –

In light of the recent scandal with Gary Moser, I would like to return my T227 Ty Cobb PSA 1.5 purchased from you in April 2019. As your website states, PWCC is focused on “trading on trust”

This card was submitted by Gary Moser to PSA and then sold by Gary Moser through PWCC. I just can’t have a card like in my collection.

I trust you will do the right thing and accept my return and issue me a full refund.

Thank you kindly,

Taylor Hamilton"

Brent replied with this:

"Taylor,

The message boards have many things wrong. This card was not consigned by Gary Moser (just FYI). More importantly It also shows no signs of alteration, and as such this isn’t a card we can directly enforce our return policy.

These boards are out of control in many ways, and are defacing cards for little reason and I’m sorry for this slander against a card you own. If you’d like you can certainly always send the card to PSA for their reconfirmation of the grade and it’s accuracy. Soon we also hope to have a program in place where we can facilitate this review for cards which have been slandered on the boards. If you’d like to check back later this month we hope to have that option in place."


The slime coming off this guy is unreal. I trust anyone on the message boards more than I do this guy... any thoughts would be appreciated, is it time to start getting a class action lawsuit together? a flight up to Portland?

Best,

Taylor
Red Flags all around. I would start a return process through ebay/paypal stat.
__________________
WTB: Autographed 1984 USFL Reggie White, 1955 Len Ford, 1986 Wilber Marshall, 1957 Johnny Unitas
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 06-05-2019, 11:48 AM
sportscardtheory sportscardtheory is offline
John Startleman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 258
Default

Wow. Just wow on that response. Defiance instead of acceptance and helpfulness. Goes to show what we are dealing with. They are literally calling proven altered cards (not this one particularly) "slandered". What a train wreck. Call your lawyers.

Last edited by sportscardtheory; 06-05-2019 at 12:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 06-05-2019, 11:54 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

This card was previously sold by Mile High in an SGC holder, unless I am confused, so remind me why you think it's a Moser card?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-05-2019 at 11:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:03 PM
sportscardtheory sportscardtheory is offline
John Startleman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
This card was previously sold by Mile High in an SGC holder, unless I am confused, so remind me why you think it's a Moser card?
I have no idea if it is or isn't, but what does that even matter. Confidence that it's not is essentially nonexistent. Everything they sell is suspect if you have no certainty of it's origin. They destroyed their consumer confidence. To me, everything they sell is altered at this point. Not literally, but you get my drift.

Last edited by sportscardtheory; 06-05-2019 at 12:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:09 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscardtheory View Post
I have no idea if it is or isn't, but what does that even matter. Confidence that it's not is essentially nonexistent. Everything they sell is suspect if you have no certainty of it's origin. They destroyed their consumer confidence. To me, everything they sell is altered at this point. Not literally, but you get my drift.
It looks fine to me, t's only a scan I know but it sure looks like a pure crossover. I am the last person on this planet to defend Brent, but he shouldn't be obligated to refund for a card if in fact it is not altered.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-05-2019 at 12:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:11 PM
sportscardtheory sportscardtheory is offline
John Startleman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
It looks fine to me, t's only a scan I know but it sure looks like a pure crossover. I am the last person on this planet to defend Brent, but he shouldn't be obligated to refund for a card if in fact it is not altered.
Yeah, and he can just send it in to PSA for a regrade if he's uncertain. lol Yikes.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:15 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscardtheory View Post
Yeah, and he can just send it in to PSA for a regrade if he's uncertain. lol Yikes.
He can also sell it. Yes the uncertainty sucks I am with you there. Or he could send to SGC. They have a crossover special apparently.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-05-2019 at 12:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:16 PM
T_Hamilton T_Hamilton is offline
Taylor Hamilton
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Posts: 276
Default

The fact I am having to spend time away from work, my family and other joys of life to deal with this slime ball enrage me. I have started the return process through eBay and PayPal. I would have been PWCC's biggest proponent if they ponied up and did the right thing. Instead they are driven by greed. There is no place for this in the hobby, let alone the world.

Here is the post from BO:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...highlight=t227
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:19 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Hamilton View Post
The fact I am having to spend time away from work, my family and other joys of life to deal with this slime ball enrage me. I have started the return process through eBay and PayPal. I would have been PWCC's biggest proponent if they ponied up and did the right thing. Instead they are driven by greed. There is no place for this in the hobby, let alone the world.

Here is the post from BO:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...highlight=t227
Yes, I posted elsewhere about the undue stress this is causing many of us. Awful.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:22 PM
T_Hamilton T_Hamilton is offline
Taylor Hamilton
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Posts: 276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
He can also sell it. Yes the uncertainty sucks I am with you there. Or he could send to SGC. They have a crossover special apparently.
This just masks the problem in my opinion. I would hate to make this someone else's problem by submitting to SGC and then trying to resell.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:30 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Hamilton View Post
This just masks the problem in my opinion. I would hate to make this someone else's problem by submitting to SGC and then trying to resell.
Why do you think it's altered? And if you love the card why not ask SGC before you return it?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:30 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Hamilton View Post
This just masks the problem in my opinion. I would hate to make this someone else's problem by submitting to SGC and then trying to resell.
Brent is going to resell it anyhow, so it is still someone else's problem.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:36 PM
sportscardtheory sportscardtheory is offline
John Startleman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Hamilton View Post
This just masks the problem in my opinion. I would hate to make this someone else's problem by submitting to SGC and then trying to resell.
And also, what if SGC says its trimmed or altered. Then what. You're stuck with a card possibly worth about a quarter of it's graded value/what you paid.

Last edited by sportscardtheory; 06-05-2019 at 01:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:38 PM
T_Hamilton T_Hamilton is offline
Taylor Hamilton
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Posts: 276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Brent is going to resell it anyhow, so it is still someone else's problem.
And if he does the hope is he takes the loss when it goes for less... and he has to live with the choices he has made.

I won't resell it knowing what we all know... and even if I did, do you truly think I would get the price I paid for it based on allegations, facts and evidence of his scam?
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:42 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Hamilton View Post
And if he does the hope is he takes the loss when it goes for less... and he has to live with the choices he has made.

I won't resell it knowing what we all know... and even if I did, do you truly think I would get the price I paid for it based on allegations, facts and evidence of his scam?
I know you won't do it. As for price, I doubt the scam affects much at this point. Very few guys would even research the card to tie it back to PWCC. We have seen in this forum at least one person annoyed that Brent took down a card from the current auction because he wanted to bid on it. More likely you wouldn't get the same price because PWCC gets higher prices than the rest of us.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-05-2019 at 12:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:02 PM
T_Hamilton T_Hamilton is offline
Taylor Hamilton
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Posts: 276
Default

As someone who has been pretty pissed off with this whole situation, I also wanted to keep the group informed...

I submitted a request to ebay and PayPal about an hour ago. PWCC responded right away with this message via ebay:

"Thank you for your participation in our auction and we understand your concerns and we are committed to address any and all issues like this. Please rest assured that for the vast majority of professionally graded items the cards are properly graded and their authenticity is not in question. If you have evidence that a card was altered, we will happily send it in to the grading company for their review and if there is a problem with the item you are entitled to a full refund through our Marketplace Guarantee. If you reach out to our customer service team at their email cs@pwccmarketplace.com we can begin the process for you. Thank you for your understanding."

Then within 30 minutes of receiving that message, I got this message (which would have saved us all a lot of time and pounding on our keyboards):

"Good news! Your return request is approved. The seller will provide you with a return shipping label to send the item back."

I hope we can get this hobby back to a place where it is fun... where we all have the feeling of ripping open packs as kids... and can move away from those trying to take advantage of the hobby and ruin beautiful artifacts of the past.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:21 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,196
Default Accepted return

One small step...

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Hamilton View Post
As someone who has been pretty pissed off with this whole situation, I also wanted to keep the group informed...

I submitted a request to ebay and PayPal about an hour ago. PWCC responded right away with this message via ebay:

"Thank you for your participation in our auction and we understand your concerns and we are committed to address any and all issues like this. Please rest assured that for the vast majority of professionally graded items the cards are properly graded and their authenticity is not in question. If you have evidence that a card was altered, we will happily send it in to the grading company for their review and if there is a problem with the item you are entitled to a full refund through our Marketplace Guarantee. If you reach out to our customer service team at their email cs@pwccmarketplace.com we can begin the process for you. Thank you for your understanding."

Then within 30 minutes of receiving that message, I got this message (which would have saved us all a lot of time and pounding on our keyboards):

"Good news! Your return request is approved. The seller will provide you with a return shipping label to send the item back."

I hope we can get this hobby back to a place where it is fun... where we all have the feeling of ripping open packs as kids... and can move away from those trying to take advantage of the hobby and ruin beautiful artifacts of the past.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:23 PM
drcy's Avatar
drcy drcy is offline
David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,466
Default

As they take only a percentage of the sales price, if lots people returned their cards for refund PWCC could quickly be in financial trouble

Last edited by drcy; 06-05-2019 at 02:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 06-05-2019, 03:55 PM
Rhotchkiss's Avatar
Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 4,255
Default

Great result Taylor. My T227, which I bought privately, is being sent into PSA (with one other card) for review under their guaranty program. I’ll tell you all how it shakes out.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 06-05-2019, 05:09 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Great result Taylor. My T227, which I bought privately, is being sent into PSA (with one other card) for review under their guaranty program. I’ll tell you all how it shakes out.
Did you include the prior picture?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 06-05-2019, 05:31 PM
Rhotchkiss's Avatar
Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 4,255
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Did you include the prior picture?
I did actually - SGC and PSA side by side in same blowout thread. I am not actually sending it in - I have never submitted anything to psa (have crossed a few things to SGC at shows); I have given it to a friend who sends lots of cards into psa regularly. But the card is going to psa and I have included a pic of it in the SGC flip.

I will update you in what, 90 days?
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:12 AM
HasselhoffsCheeseburger's Avatar
HasselhoffsCheeseburger HasselhoffsCheeseburger is offline
Arthur R!ch
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Netflix
Posts: 592
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Hamilton View Post
So quick update here... i decided i just couldnt have the card in my collection... i would always wonder and feel bad selling to someone else without certainty it was unaltered. I decided to take the high route and write a polite email to Brent at PWCC. Here is what I wrote:

"Brent –

In light of the recent scandal with Gary Moser, I would like to return my T227 Ty Cobb PSA 1.5 purchased from you in April 2019. As your website states, PWCC is focused on “trading on trust”

This card was submitted by Gary Moser to PSA and then sold by Gary Moser through PWCC. I just can’t have a card like in my collection.

I trust you will do the right thing and accept my return and issue me a full refund.

Thank you kindly,

Taylor Hamilton"

Brent replied with this:

"Taylor,

The message boards have many things wrong. This card was not consigned by Gary Moser (just FYI). More importantly It also shows no signs of alteration, and as such this isn’t a card we can directly enforce our return policy.

These boards are out of control in many ways, and are defacing cards for little reason and I’m sorry for this slander against a card you own. If you’d like you can certainly always send the card to PSA for their reconfirmation of the grade and it’s accuracy. Soon we also hope to have a program in place where we can facilitate this review for cards which have been slandered on the boards. If you’d like to check back later this month we hope to have that option in place."


The slime coming off this guy is unreal. I trust anyone on the message boards more than I do this guy... any thoughts would be appreciated, is it time to start getting a class action lawsuit together? a flight up to Portland?

Best,

Taylor
So Brent knows which cards were submitted by Moser. That's good to know. I'm sure that admission will be important in the coming months.
__________________
"A lot of those guys don't seem to be having as much fun as they should be."

Successful transactions with Burger King, Amazon, Great Cuts, Tacos Villa Corona, TJ Maxx
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 06-14-2019, 04:40 PM
T_Hamilton T_Hamilton is offline
Taylor Hamilton
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Posts: 276
Default

ended up getting my refund yesterday, whew!

Hope this helps anyone else that has recently purchased a Moser trimmed card through PWCC.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 06-14-2019, 05:19 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,042
Default

Great news!
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 06-15-2019, 05:32 PM
ejharrington ejharrington is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 598
Default

I own a card that made the Moser "list". I studied the card for awhile and can't see anything. I just mailed it to SGC to see if it grades out. I wlll let people know how it all works out.
__________________
Contact me if you have any Dave Kingman cards / memorabilia for sale.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:33 AM.


ebay GSB