The First Five, Who Are You Going To Take

[ksfarmboy]

So you have the number one draft choice who are you going to take of the first five HOFers? Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Babe Ruth or Honus Wagner are the choices. I’m going with Walter Johnson. Played on a pretty poor hitting team most of his career and still racked up the numbers. Babe is a real close 2nd, followed by Cobb, Wagner and finally Matty. What are your thoughts? Pictures or cards please.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There is no question about baseball to which Ruth is not the answer.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There is no question about baseball to which Ruth is not the answer.

Agreed

[Casey2296]

Tough question.

Cobb
Johnson
Wagner
Ruth
Matty

[todeen]

I would take Ty Cobb or Honus Wagner. Cobb plays a brand of baseball that I thoroughly enjoy. I think I would even like to be the owner so that Cobb could tell me how he really feels about me as owner or GM.

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[ty_cobb]

Ty Cobb

[ValKehl]

Easy choice for me:

[oldjudge]

No question in my mind--The Babe

[DodgerMike22]

Can’t go wrong with any one of those guys but I’d take the Babe #1

[Mark]

Wagner played every day at shortstop, and he could hit some, too. I'd go with him.

[rats60]

If we are talking about drafting a 9 man team, I am taking Honus Wagner. The gap from him to the #2 shortstop is bigger than from Ruth to the #2-8 corner outfielder. Bill James has Wagner as the #2 player of all time.

I would take Mays over Cobb, so I wouldn't pick him. Likewise, there is too much depth at pitcher to take Johnson (or Matty).

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by rats60

If we are talking about drafting a 9 man team, I am taking Honus Wagner. The gap from him to the #2 shortstop is bigger than from Ruth to the #2-8 corner outfielder. Bill James has Wagner as the #2 player of all time.

I would take Mays over Cobb, so I wouldn't pick him. Likewise, there is too much depth at pitcher to take Johnson (or Matty).

This! It's Wagner for me. Batting, base stealing, defensive skills and a leader.

[cgjackson222]

Ruth (greatest ever), then Wagner (best shortstop).

The fact that Cobb never won a championship may be partially due to the fact that his teammates never liked him and he was not great for team morale. And he didn't live up to expectations in postseason play.

All of the other guys won at least one championship.

Its a tossup between Johnson and Mathewson. As fast as Johnson pitched, I feel like players these days can hit the fastball. Not sure they could hit all of Mathewson's pitches.

[brunswickreeves]

From an investment perspective, I'd take Ruth given he'd produce the absolute best ROI.

He transcended baseball and drew unprecedented crowds everywhere he went. He'd also draw other great players to my team, which would further strengthen my dynasty, produce post season play, and championships (all maximizing $).

[EddieP]

Ruth. You get two players for the price of one. If it weren’t for WWI, Ruth would have been a HOF pitcher. Tris Speaker said, “ Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week he might have lasted a long time and become a great star."

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by EddieP

Ruth. You get two players for the price of one. If it weren’t for WWI, Ruth would have been a HOF pitcher. Tris Speaker said, “ Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week he might have lasted a long time and become a great star."

I think it all worked out just fine.

Great question but I would go with Ruth first but the others are all

1A , B, C, and D

Cannot go wrong with any

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by EddieP

Ruth. You get two players for the price of one. If it weren’t for WWI, Ruth would have been a HOF pitcher. Tris Speaker said, “ Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week he might have lasted a long time and become a great star."

I would have to pick Ruth. Curious what you mean when you say if it weren't for WWI, Ruth would have been a HoF pitcher. How did WWI cause him to move from pitcher to the outfield full time?

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

As fast as Johnson pitched, I feel like players these days can hit the fastball. Not sure they could hit all of Mathewson's pitches.

Oh, I'm sure the players of Johnson's time could hit the fastball, too, they just couldn't hit HIS. Big difference there.

[robertsmithnocure]

1. Ruth
2. Johnson
3. Wagner
4. Cobb
5. Mathewson

[Beercan collector]

Ruth
It’s about championshipS
.. Not 1 .. Not 2 .. Not 3 .. Not 4 .. Not 5 .. Not 6 .. 😊

[MR RAREBACK]

Ty cobb

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Oh, I'm sure the players of Johnson's time could hit the fastball, too, they just couldn't hit HIS. Big difference there.

I'm just recognizing that there aren't that many guys that can make a living off one pitch these days. Maybe Johnson could, maybe he couldn't.

[jcmtiger]

Cobb all the way, never pick a pitcher.

[darwinbulldog]

Definitely Ruth.

[NiceDocter]

Just have to take the guy who was undefeated in his World Series pitching record with an ERA of 0.87 and 29 2/3 consecutive scoreless innings. That would be Babe Ruth. I rest my case.

[Metsfan0507]

Are we taking the player and dropping them into 2023 competition at 18 years old? Or are we guaranteeing that their career turns out exactly the same (ruth hits 714hrs, cobb gets his 4000+ hits, etc). My thinking is that the pitchers won't stand out against today's competition, but if we guarantee their same stats then all those complete games and wins are extremely valuable so I'd take Johnson. If we're dropping them against modern competition with no guarantees, then I'd take cobb or wagner as I think their ability to hit to all fields and good baserunning would stand up best against today's pitchers.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I'm just recognizing that there aren't that many guys that can make a living off one pitch these days. Maybe Johnson could, maybe he couldn't.

And I'm just recognizing that there was only one who could do it in the old days, or ever, for that matter.

[Hankphenom]

This is a timeless argument: who is more valuable, the great everyday player or the great pitcher who wins consistently every four or five games? I think Ruth's star power and drawing ability, along with his hitting, makes him the pick. But here's the case for Johnson: let's say you're the Washington manager while he's on your staff. He starts 666 games, finishes 532 of them, wins 417 of them, and shuts the other team out in 110. So when you send Walter out to the mound, you know he's going to finish 5 out of 6 games, win 2 out of 3 of them, and in 1 out of 6 the other team isn't even going to score a run! For 21 seasons he's going to do that for you. You'd have to give it some serious thought before letting THAT guy go to another team. Of course, having a shot at any of those players would be a franchise's dream come true.

[butchie_t]

I’m taking the train, The Big Train. Barney is the conductor of the team.

[ValKehl]

Keep in mind that Johnson's peak strike-out years were during the dead-ball era when batters were swinging to make contact, rather than swinging for the fences, which made batters harder to strike out. But, even in the 1920's after the advent of the lively ball and when Johnson was in the downside of his career, he led the A.L. in strike outs three times (1921, 1923 & 1924) and MLB once (1921). I daresay that if Johnson were pitching in the 21st century, IMO, he would accumulate 6,000 or more strike outs because there are so few contact hitters in today's game.

[ksfarmboy]

Thanks for discussing guys! My mindset when I started this was they would have the same career if dumped into 2023, silly maybe. Remember the player is on your team not necessarily the Red Sox and Yankees like Ruth would have been. I also wanted to see some pics and cards of these guys. Thanks for they ones that shared photos. JC what is that Cobb that looks like a Turkey Red? Notebook cover?

[JustinD]

Personal answer is Cobb, logical answer is Ruth.

[t206fanatic]

I think I'm going with Johannes Wagner, one of the best ever at a premium position.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I would have to pick Ruth. Curious what you mean when you say if it weren't for WWI, Ruth would have been a HoF pitcher. How did WWI cause him to move from pitcher to the outfield full time?

During WWI Ballplayers were drafted in the Arm Services unless they were employed by an essential business for the War effort. Ruth was hired by a Steel Mill which was essential for the war and thus, he was exempted from the draft. However, that was not the case with many of the Red Sox’s other players and the 1918 Red Sox mainly fielded a Minor League Team. Ruth pestered the Front Office to let him play the field on days when he was not pitching. So partly as a way to invigorate the line-up and partly as a stunt to boost attendance, Ruth played first base when he was not pitching. The next year (1919), he was more of a regular player than a pitcher ( partly because of the larger attendance when he played) and in 1920 , he was traded to the Yanks.

[Rhotchkiss]

Ruth

[Seven]

The Sultan of Swat!

It's incredible to look at The Babe's numbers. The man could've realistically hit 900 Home Runs if he played the field his entire career.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by ty_cobb

Ty Cobb

Ty Cobb and what a great picture you posted!

[Fred]

Let me see...

uh, Babe.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Ty Cobb and what a great picture you posted!

That is the original artwork from the Detroit News September 1985. Purchased from the artist.

[Leon]

This wasn't supposed to have to do with value of cards so, I like the Big Train a lot. Let this sink in a second (he also had over 400 wins)


"Johnson's record includes 110 shutouts, the most in baseball history. Johnson had a 38–26 record in games decided by a 1–0 score." - Wiki

He lost 26 games when his team couldn't score 1 run. Depending on how you look at it, he might dominate his position better than any other player at their respective position, statistically.

And here is the original postcard proof, photo that Wiki used for him .... I should get a royalty .

[todeen]

I picked Cobb, and agree with others: any of these players would be the cornerstone of their franchise. But I wanted to share this photo bought from Hankphenom.

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[Mark17]

I'll take Ruth, and with all the money he'll make me, by putting fans in the seats, I'll build a new ballpark and be able to acquire a bunch of other great players to surround him.

[glchen]

Here's another vote for Ruth.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

If I'm an owner, my object is to make money. It's not "The House that Cobb Built". Nobody put asses in the seats like Babe Ruth. If the point is pure profit, which it would be, then the choice is beyond obvious.

But wait! What year is this hypothetical draft taking place? If it's pre-1920, then I'd go with Ty.

[alywa]

I think I fall in with the plurality here...

Ruth, Johnson, Wagner, Cobb, Matty

[ValKehl]

Pitching wins pennants. Hitting fills the stands.

[Vintagedeputy]

Ruth, on both ends of the ball!