T218 Tolstoi Backs

[governor]

Hi all....anyone got a bead on a value/price multiplier for Tolstoi backs in T218s? I did some quick math off the SGC Population that shows of the graded T218s, 34% are Hassan, 62% are Mecca and 4% are Tolstoi. I've heard dealers and forums claim the Tolstoi' are even rarer than those numbers might indicate.

Any other insights appreciated what a Tolstoi card might be valued compared to same card in the other two backs.

thanks

[Exhibitman]

Tough question.

4% of the pop is probably not reflective of the actual ratio of Tolstoi to the other brands because as rare cards with strong values even in low grades Tolstoi cards are more likely to be slabbed than their common counterparts.

Some Tolstoi sales from 2010:
Gans good $73.00 SGC 20 $52.00
Johnson SGC 20 $114.83
Mellody SGC 20 $32.00

Some Tolstoi sales from 2009:
Johnson SGC 10 $89.89 $108.05 SGC 20 $116.94
Brown (ex) $112.22

And from before the crash:
Jeffries f $42.75
Johnson SGC 40 $505.09
Langford p $32.50
O’Keefe ex $449.00

If the cards are in nice shape, only an auction would establish price accurately. If they are really great and slabbed, you could see hundreds of dollars a card, even today.

[governor]

Appreciate the info and sales figures. I agree with your assessment that they are more likely to be sent for grading so the pop is false indicator. I purchased a lot of about 300 T218s recently and there was one Tolstoi in the group - as luck would have it, it was the Johnson portrait

[Griffins]

I've owned easily 500 T218's (2 complete sets, plus a lot of extras and a ton of upgrades) and have only had 1 Tolstoi in the bunch. I'd say way tougher than 1% of the total.

[Exhibitman]

I've got a few more than that. I don't know of any sets, though I am aware of one member here who has a near set of boxers. I got lucky some years ago and stumbled across an album with several T218 Tolstoi at a World Boxing HOF show. They're also a real bitch to find in better shape. Most of the ones I've seen would grade out vg or worse.

I think I've seen more of the Jack Johnson blue BG cards than any others, with Gans a close 2nd.

There's also T220 Tolstoi, which is tough but not as tough as T218.

[BradH]

Love this topic and this set!!

Like the previous posters, I've had a ton of T218s over the years and very few Tolstoi backs. Without looking at my database, I believe I currently have about 700 total cards and only 4 Tolstoi backs, but this is in no way representative of the ratio, as I've trimmed my collection down in recent years and sold lots of Mecca and Hassan backs (but I kept the Tolstoi backs).

In my research, and in some of the posts on this topic here on Net54 in recent years, it seems that the distribution between Hassan and Mecca backs are fairly even, but Mecca is slightly more common than Hassan, by maybe a 55:45 ratio.

The 1% rule for Tolstoi sounds way high to me. In fact, I really don't think it's a stretch to say that Tolstoi backs run at about a 500-to-1 ratio to the other brands. Maybe I'm way off, just going off my own observation and talking with fellow collectors.

I am not suggesting that Tolstoi backs should be 500 times more valuable - I think the prices that Exhibitman posted seem about right and are in line with what I've paid.

I would bet my house that a full 153-card set can NOT be completed in Tolstoi backs. In fact, if someone here on the board is closing in on a full set of the boxers, I'd love to see them. I haven't heard of that before.