REA has another 1914 Ruth, and another, and another...

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Posted By: rand

i just got an email from REA auctions saying they have a "new" to the hobby baltimore Ruth card, seems like they have one every auction. Kinda interesting that they are the only ones to recieve all these newly discovered finds....

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Posted By: dennis

at the prices it gets they are coming out of collections. some collectors don't view this as a card.

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Posted By: jay behrens

If you have one and want to sell, why wouldn't you go the auction house that is bringing in huge money for it. Why take the chance on getting lesser money from another auction house when REA has a very strong and proven track record in selling this card.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Good point Jay...If I had one then I would know which auction house the underbidder on the last one likes to bid.

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Posted By: barrysloate

This is the 4th straight auction he has had the same card. Either it is not as rare as we think or this is an extreme mathematical anomaly.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Given that REA has one auction a year it's not as amazing as if Mastro had auctioned one off in 4 straight auctions.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: Joann

I think it's a mathematical anomaly, but not necessarily a practical anomaly. Meaning that the mathematical rarity has an underlying reason. It gets to what Jay said - as the card gets big dollars people that have them around (not in the "organized hobby") are bringing them into the open. Once they are in collectors' hands it may settle down.

Which gets to Barry's correct point that they may not be as rare as we think. Perceived rarity is based on known cards, and known cards are usually in well-known hands. There could be many more in non-collecting, family hands that we don't know about. Just because of it's size, picture of Ruth and schedule on the back it may have survived for more reasons than just a small innocuous looking tobacco card.

As far as word-of-mouth on sales, this card is probably much easier to describe. Someone could say that an old blue-looking thing with a Baltimore schedule and Babe Ruth's picture sold for $200K and anyone that owned one would know immediately that they probably had one. If someone said it was some old sepia picture of some guy with a tobacco ad, a casual owner might not zero in as quickly and realize what they had.

It makes you wonder what other so-called rarities could suddenly become less rare if they were getting $200K a pop at well-known national auctions.

Joann

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

These " Babe Ruth rookie attic finds" are getting to be annual events now. Kind of like Father's Day. Interesting that it's always the same auction house.

Frank

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Posted By: Solomon

But what if the same guy had all four? Four is not a large number to be out there, and if he had a small quantity (or six, or 10), selling them one/year would be an excellent way to maximize dollars over probably the shortest period of time he could.

I'm not that familiar with the card, in terms of origin, but if he were a small distributor for the product, he's almost as likely to find a stack of a dozen that were never given out as he is to find one.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

I had many cases (as did many of my dealer breatheren) that we might be the person for whom a certain card sold particularly well. Perhaps, we understood a shortage in that card and actively seeked out copies to sell -- I once had a show in Albany NY where I sold 7 copies of 1968 Topps Lee May (#485); for whatever reason Albany never got that card and I would always look for more examples to bring there for future shows.

I also had accumulated a great number of pubs in my dealing days; and whenever I set up with publications at a show; I was amazed by how I would be offered any publication that came through the door. There is a theory that what you display gives you a pretty good chance of getting that offered to you. The Ruth card and REA is an auction house example of that. I would believe that every auction house ends up with items consigned to them which are similar to other items they have sold before.

Up early; excited for my trip to Cleveland. See you all there

Rich

Edited to reflect some changes

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Posted By: boxingbaseballgolf33

I think in the future we will see more finds of single cards like the Butter Cream Ruth and 1914 Ruth. Even people that are not collectors are paying attention to sale prices and this will bring out more cards that have been hidden away for so long. There is an interest in our hobby more now then there ever was because of the record prices some of these cards are getting. The news, the internet and even the larger shows are bringing interest in many directions.

Jimmy

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Posted By: Robert Edward Auctions

The fact that we have another Babe Ruth is almost unbelievable to us also! To those who have characterized REA presenting four 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth rookie cards in four straight auctions as a “statistical anomaly” (that is, something that is statistically incredibly improbable, and even bordering on unbelievable, but true), we can’t blame you! But it’s just how it is. We’re not printing these in the basement! I personally don’t think that this newly discovered card suggests that the card is far more common than previously thought. Eleven known examples is not a lot. Could there be another one or two (or more) yet to be discovered? Who knows? Anything is possible. Of the three cards auctioned during the past three years, only two were new to the hobby, saved in the families of noncollectors. Our good fortune in attracting consignors of this card, we think, has to do with the fact that for many years we have been prominently featuring the Ruth rookie card in advertisements, articles, direct mailings, and press releases (both in print and on the web). Also, we are very close to Baltimore, where these cards were issued, which gives us a geographical advantage, and which probably can’t hurt. The fact that REA is the only company to offer even one of these cards over the past five years, let alone three (soon to be four), actually confirms its rarity to us. If there were many unknown examples out there, I would think that maybe a new one would turn up elsewhere, which it has not. There are a lot of advanced collectors in Baltimore and we get a lot of referrals from that area. Our last catalog had such a strong Baltimore flavor I was tempted to put a map of the city on the cover! (only kidding, but we really had the early Baltimore baseball material). I’m not sure if the fact that REA is presenting a newly discovered 1914 Babe Ruth rookie in our next auction is statistically any more incredible than the fact that over the years we have played a role in the sale of twenty T206 Honus Wagners (out of approx 50 to 60 examples known), seven 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth cards (out of approx 11 known, including the newly discovered example), or eight T206 Ty Cobb with Ty Cobb back cards (out of approx 14 examples known). There are many other similar examples. To us, it’s all incredible! A lot of it is just plain luck. We may never get another 1914 Ruth rookie again, or we could get a call with another tomorrow. There’s no way to know for sure. When we presented a T210 Old Mill Joe Jackson in 2006 for the second straight year and another turned up at the same time in another auction, collectors were saying “Hey, maybe it’s not that rare.” But those three cards are long gone, we get calls for the T210 Jackson all the time, and it may be a long time before another surfaces. Sometimes big money brings cards out of the woodwork but the 1914 Ruth is already valuable enough to make a noncollector take notice. As its fame continues to rise and its significance continues to be even more greatly appreciated, maybe additional examples will surface that are currently not known. Ruth’s roots are in Baltimore. He was born there and grew up there. St. Mary’s was in Baltimore. The Babe Ruth Museum is in Baltimore. His connection with the city is so great that it would not be surprising that a Ruth rookie card might survive in the hands of the family of a casual local collector, and it might even be the case that, if the card wasn’t Ruth, it might not have been saved. That’s exactly what happened with several of the Ruth rookie cards that have surfaced over the years. Maybe there will be more - or maybe not – but I do think that every new example is a very big deal. Maybe I am influenced by the fact that this has long been my favorite baseball card. Since it was first discovered and checklisted the 1980s I have always championed this card as one of the most important of all baseball cards, a true miracle card. I still can’t get over the fact that Babe Ruth just happened to be with the Baltimore Orioles in 1914, as a complete unknown, when The Baltimore News issued this set and included him. Now that’s a statistical anomaly!!!

Sincerely,


Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions LLC

www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

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Posted By: barrysloate

Rob- what is the condition of the Baltimore News Ruth?

And the Buttercream Ruth is even rarer!

Why don't I find cards like that?

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Posted By: Robert Edward Auctions

The 1914 Ruth is graded VG by SGC and the Ruth Butter Cream is graded VG-EX by PSA. Here's a link to images at sportscollectorsdaily.com:


http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/latest/two-rare-babe-ruth-cards-surface.html

Hi Barry! You've had plenty over the years! (How about the California League Gypsy Queen years ago! We're still waiting for a call with one of those!)

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Posted By: Mike

Was this cut from a sheet?

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Posted By: barrysloate

I know...and the Lindy Lindstrom and the six Just So's weren't so shabby either. But that doesn't happen anymore!

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Posted By: Robert Edward Auctions LLC

Hi Mike! They're ALL cut from sheets!

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Posted By: Robert Edward Auctions LLC

Barry - you just never know when something great is going to surface. A few weeks ago I never would have dreamed that we'd have either of these cards. Two calls later we got them both. I actually thought that both calls were jokes at first - especially the R306 Ruth. I saw a mention of that card in a post on Net54 and days later got a call about the card (this turned out to just be a coincidence). I didn't believe it until I actually got the scan.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

Hi Robert-

incredible acquistions once again...looking forward to your catalog next year...

as per our discussions, we have to get together sometime soon.


Regards,
Michael Sarno

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

With all of Rob's good fortune on the 14 Ruth I guess I can wait until 2013 and get my copy for $65K. Something to look forward to...

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Posted By: Kevin Saucier

"Hi Mike! They're ALL cut from sheets!"


LMAO

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Posted By: Marc S.

That you have turned up four Baltimore News Ruth cards in four years is absolutely phenomenal. Congratulations.

What I find particularly surprising is that there have not been equal finds of other cards from the sets. I imagine that in the contemporaneous time period, that Babe Ruth was largely not a household name for another few years. Additionally, to an inexperienced eye, many might not even pick up this card and know that the "Ruth" being mentioned is one in the same as George Herman "Babe" Ruth. Despite his extensive roots to the Baltimore area that you have eluded to, I would nonetheless imagine that 90+% of current baseball fans are not aware that Babe Ruth was sold to the Red Sox organization in late 1914 and his roots are actually in Baltimore.

I'm just surprised that as this is a single card from an obscure set, that if Ruth cards were turning up, that there wouldn't be a number of additional examples popping into the hobby of the other 23 cards from the set.

Any thoughts on why it is only the Ruth card that seems to be turning up...?

Marc

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Posted By: Paul S

Oh...so I shouldn't cut up my sheet?

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Posted By: Anonymous

Hi Marc! In this particular case, according to the family, there were additional cards, but they were thrown out 20 years ago. They said that the cards were glued into an album (by a family member) and they couldn't get them out, then after a while they threw the album out. In fact, here's a quote of a portion of a letter from the consignor about this:

"After my Dad's mother died, he found that "booklet" of cards --and the Ruth card, which was separate-- in her personal effects. At some point (about 35-40 years ago?), my family had apparently tried to remove the other cards from the pages in that book, but could not do so without destroying or tearing the cards, so they just left them there. About 20 years ago, that compilation book of cards was literally disintegrating, so it was just thrown out.

How the Ruth card missed inclusion in the "deadly" display book, we don't honestly know -- however, I find it extremely interesting that SGC found glue on the back of that card."

End of quote.

The Ruth card has a hint of glue on the reverse (and this is why the card was graded VG by SGC - it actually looks nicer).

The Ruth example REA sold in April 2007, also from a noncollecting family, was accompanied by one additional common card. This card was auctioned elsewhere in the catalog (separate from the Ruth), but the writeup noted that that card came with the Ruth.

When several Ruth rookie cards were found all at the same time in Baltimore in the 1990s, they were accompanied by dozens of additional cards. A newspaper story on the find at the time even noted that the cards were strewn all over the attic. When the cards were found, the owner only made it known that he had one card, which he consigned to REA's 1997 auction. He sold the additional Ruths privately. Everyone wanted the Ruths but no attention was paid to the common cards and at that time they really were not thought of as all that valuable (hard to believe in light of the fact that they are worth a fortune today but that just how it was). Dan McKee tried to track down the common (non-Ruth) cards years later, as they never surfaced, and I was even able to provide him with the owner's name and address to help him track the guy down, but too many years had passed and there was no trace of him - or the dozens of additional cards which were clearly described in the newspaper articles at the time. Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes, and these stories may provide some insight.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Historic card. Do you have a scan of the back??

Frank

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Posted By: Paul

I'm glad REA posted the link. The Ruth is one of the red ones, which makes it the card I listed on the thread of "scans you'd like to see."

And for some reason, I had always assumed the Butter Cream Ruth was a batting pose, similar to the Foxx. I guess I completely made that up. It actually appears to be the same portrait as on the Uncle Jacks card.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

Rob-

email sent.

MS

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Posted By: rand

the buttercream ruth looks terrible floating in the psa holder, why wouldnt the card be sent to SGC to make it look better?

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Thanks to Rob for promptly sending me a scan of the back. Impressive.



Frank