Coaches corner issues disclaimer

[travrosty]

Coaches corner starting to issue a disclaimer concerning authenticaton. It's a start. Baby steps.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=308175

[scooter729]

THAT is what they pick on for being a questionable authentication?? Sure, JSA has had an issue here and there, but it's hysterical that CC would call them out!

If any CC buyers are net-savvy enough to have searched and come across stories about JSA, then they surely would have found the mountains of material against all of CC's forensic experts!

[HRBAKER]

had to chuckle too
my take is that it is more of a dig than a "baby step"

[GrayGhost]

I find that HILARIOUS. Yes, there have been issues against the alphabet gang, but compared to the issues against SCAT. TTA, Chris " I will authenticate King Herods autograph for a price" Morales and others, it is like comparing an ant Hill to Mt Everest. Wow.

[travrosty]

well, they can't single out everyones favorite, but they got to start somewhere, they went with what they thought was the biggest problem. i say kudos for saying something, that's what people want, isn't it, for cc to tackle problem authentications?

Well they did, just because it wasn't everyone's favorite authenticator to hate doesn't mean they were wrong. Has anyone ever heard of Delehanty or Nimitz? Sal Bando or Thomas Sayers?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

had to chuckle too
my take is that it is more of a dig than a "baby step"

Ditto, Jeff. Nothing of substance.

[RichardSimon]

The day we see them say that about their favorite authenticators is the day to celebrate.
But that statement certainly shows that they are reading Net54,,,
Hi Lee!!! Hi Scott!!! Have a nice day, NOT! .

[chaddurbin]

only in cc's world is JSA somehow inferior to the morales and tta's. at least they know who their breadwinners are.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Funny thing, Travis; I just went to Ebay and checked out the PSA and JSA certed Mickey Mantle autographs. Between PSA and JSA there are approximately 800 Mickey Mantle autographs. Not one of those autographs is even questionable.

Funny thing, too, Travis, that there isn't one Mickey Mantle autograph with a CCSA, TTA, Stat Authentic or Chris Morales COA. Oh that's right, the aforementioned COAs are on Ebay's "Banned COA" list.

Are you reading this, Lee and Scott? Of course you are.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by travrosty

well, they can't single out everyones favorite, but they got to start somewhere, they went with what they thought was the biggest problem. i say kudos for saying something, that's what people want, isn't it, for cc to tackle problem authentications?

Well they did, just because it wasn't everyone's favorite authenticator to hate doesn't mean they were wrong. Has anyone ever heard of Delehanty or Nimitz? Sal Bando or Thomas Sayers?

You cannot seriously think this is their attempt to "tackle problem authentications" can you? It's humorous, given their past and present embracing of problem authentications and authenticators, but surely there are better ways for you to get your own digs in at JSA than to suggest that CC is cleaning up their game with this item description?

I think everyone who frequents these boards knows that you have a beef with JSA, but I don't think lowering yourself to the level of giving CC a pat on the back will gain any respect from anyone who is familiar with their practices. Personally, knowing your experience with boxing autos, I'd rather hear what you think of the Ali sig itself, as I have never felt comfortable with my own ability to judge his signatures.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

You cannot seriously think this is their attempt to "tackle problem authentications" can you? It's humorous, given their past and present embracing of problem authentications and authenticators, but surely there are better ways for you to get your own digs in at JSA than to suggest that CC is cleaning up their game with this item description?

I think everyone who frequents these boards knows that you have a beef with JSA, but I don't think lowering yourself to the level of giving CC a pat on the back will gain any respect from anyone who is familiar with their practices. Personally, knowing your experience with boxing autos, I'd rather hear what you think of the Ali sig itself, as I have never felt comfortable with my own ability to judge his signatures.

Maybe Travis can opine the below Muhammad Ali autographs that are presently listed on the Coach's Corner auction site headed by Scott Malack and Lee Trythall.

http://www.myccsa.com/Search.aspx?Se...muhammad%20ali

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

You cannot seriously think this is their attempt to "tackle problem authentications" can you? It's humorous, given their past and present embracing of problem authentications and authenticators, but surely there are better ways for you to get your own digs in at JSA than to suggest that CC is cleaning up their game with this item description?

I think everyone who frequents these boards knows that you have a beef with JSA, but I don't think lowering yourself to the level of giving CC a pat on the back will gain any respect from anyone who is familiar with their practices. Personally, knowing your experience with boxing autos, I'd rather hear what you think of the Ali sig itself, as I have never felt comfortable with my own ability to judge his signatures.

Maybe Travis is trying to lend credibility to Coach's Corner.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

well, they can't single out everyones favorite, but they got to start somewhere, they went with what they thought was the biggest problem. i say kudos for saying something, that's what people want, isn't it, for cc to tackle problem authentications?

Well they did, just because it wasn't everyone's favorite authenticator to hate doesn't mean they were wrong. Has anyone ever heard of Delehanty or Nimitz? Sal Bando or Thomas Sayers?

Yeah, Travis.

CC-Travis.jpg

[GrayGhost]

Not this again..on two threads. COME ON YOU GUYS

[Mr. Zipper]

This is precisely why I scoff at the notion that the TPA bashing sites are doing some sort of service to the community.

What the TPA bashing sites do is offer aid and comfort and justification to those who wish to discredit TPAs for their own dark motives.

I recently contacted a scuzzbag ebay seller that was offering a ton of highly suspect material and asked him about his authenticity guarantee. In his response he bashed the TPAs and provided links to Autograph Alert and one of Travis' boxing stories.

Keep up the good work, Travis! These are your fans. You are really helping!

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

This is precisely why I scoff at the notion that the TPA bashing sites are doing some sort of service to the community.

What the TPA bashing sites do is offer aid and comfort and justification to those who wish to discredit TPAs for their own dark motives.

I recently contacted a scuzzbag ebay seller that was offering a ton of highly suspect material and asked him about his authenticity guarantee. In his response he bashed the TPAs and provided links to Autograph Alert and one of Travis' boxing stories.

Keep up the good work, Travis! These are your fans. You are really helping!

and what is my dark motive?

you guys are playing an either/or game.

either we have tta, stat, morales OR we have psa/jsa. that is the shortsightedness.

If you knew me, you would know that i am not an either/or person. I set a high bar, and if psa/jsa can't make it over that bar, just them being supposedly the best we got doesnt cut it. If they were good enough, then i wouldnt care. but you dont know me, you are using criticism of psa/jsa to further your own agenda against morales, stat, tta, aau, whoever.

again, i dont care if people are against them, good for them. i dont use criticism about morales, tta, aau, to further my views against the big two, you know why?

I don't need any further ammunition, they shoot themselves in the foot already, and I show proof, every time i show proof. and the rebuttal to this proof is usually the following.

"well cc and tta, and stat, and aau, and morales are horrible."

well what does one have to do with the other????????

nothing, that is what. but people cant face reality so they make it an either/or proposition.

All my stories are true so if someone uses them, they are using a true story.

[travrosty]

well, that one ali has a spence coa with it, so should i call it good or bad? must be good it has spence certification? see how the whole thing is a bunch of baloney, we cant figure out what is what anymore?

thats why a total scrap/reboot is in order.

dr. seuss wrote a story about star bellied sneeches. go read it and then you will know what the state of autograph hobby is in these days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3yJomUhs0g

people collecting money to put a star on and a star off and the only guy who makes out in the end is the companies putting the stickers on, because what does a star on your autographed photo mean anymore when they are just slapping them on, authenticating through the frame, authenticating laser prints, authenticating 40,000 photos in a few days that ends up to 3 or 4 seconds per photo, authenticating a sal bando by glancing at it for 4 seconds and not even taking the photo into their own hands, authenticating a 150 year old autograph with no known exemplars to compare against, then pull their cert when they are embarrassed because they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar?

but they got the money so that's all that matters. Where is the customer bill of rights? where is the guarantee? where is anything? All they have to hang their hat on is that they claim to be better than morales or aau, or stat? That is some bragging rights. How about being good instead?


being opposed to something that sucks doesnt mean i am endorsing something else that sucks, but you need it to be that way, so i get slimed that way.

someone please tell me how they authenticated the thomas sayers autograph with no known exemplars, then i will apologize and say i was wrong and you are right. Just explain Thomas Sayers autograph, not all the other ones, just the Sayers. How could they issue the certs when there aren't any known exemplars of sayers signature and they knew it and still certed it anyway? answer that, which you won't do, but you will mention morales or aau again and that is suppose to be an answer?

[GrayGhost]

The issue here is you and Chris and David until recently are always trying to one up each other, and say this huge value "psa or Jsa Mistake" holds more weight than dozens of other Ruth's by the other guys. Hey, here's a newsflash to people who I FEEL ARE TRYING TO HELP...ALL THE MISTAKES CARRY A LOT OF WEIGHT.

I just don't see why you guys can't get on the same page. I think one issue I see is Chris honestly has so much faith in JSA and PSA, that he wants to turn a blind eye to their issues. And Trav, you seem to want to "just attack the big guys".

How about admitting this whole thing is a BIG PROBLEM? Honestly, I don't see how anyone can trust ANYTHING ANYMORE. So many collectors have items that they may not trust anymore. We see posts on here of people buying things w alphabet letters, and now being nervous. Its a real hard situation, but the constant one upping and bickering is NOT helping.

BTW Trav, the Sayers thing is PATHETIC AND RIDICULOUS. you can't say " We have no reason to believe its not authentic" and such, or that something is, when there is nothing to compare to. I mean, I could write Pontius Pilate on a piece of paper w an old pen, and w/out exemplars, someone prob would pass it.

Scott Roberts.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Very revealing, Travis. If that Spence certed Ali was incorrectly authenticated I'm sure you would have commented, but since that Ali is authentic, you don't want to say in public "that it is good."

To the members of Net54, that JSA certed Ali is 100% authentic, but Travis doesn't dare offend his friends by stating in public, that it is in fact, an authentic signature of Muhammad Ali. One thing is for sure, and that is, if that JSA certed Ali was incorrectly authenticated, Travis would have been all over it.

Your feeble attempt to lend credibility to Coach's Corner is pathetic at best.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

The issue here is you and Chris and David until recently are always trying to one up each other, and say this huge value "psa or Jsa Mistake" holds more weight than dozens of other Ruth's by the other guys. Hey, here's a newsflash to people who I FEEL ARE TRYING TO HELP...ALL THE MISTAKES CARRY A LOT OF WEIGHT.

I just don't see why you guys can't get on the same page. I think one issue I see is Chris honestly has so much faith in JSA and PSA, that he wants to turn a blind eye to their issues. And Trav, you seem to want to "just attack the big guys".

How about admitting this whole thing is a BIG PROBLEM? Honestly, I don't see how anyone can trust ANYTHING ANYMORE. So many collectors have items that they may not trust anymore. We see posts on here of people buying things w alphabet letters, and now being nervous. Its a real hard situation, but the constant one upping and bickering is NOT helping.

BTW Trav, the Sayers thing is PATHETIC AND RIDICULOUS. you can't say " We have no reason to believe its not authentic" and such, or that something is, when there is nothing to compare to. I mean, I could write Pontius Pilate on a piece of paper w an old pen, and w/out exemplars, someone prob would pass it.

Scott Roberts.

I just got done saying the whole thing is a big problem.

But for anyone to do in any other private business what they did with the sayers auto is misrepresentation or worse and here comes the knock on the door, but not with autograph authentication, anything goes.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

The issue here is you and Chris and David until recently are always trying to one up each other, and say this huge value "psa or Jsa Mistake" holds more weight than dozens of other Ruth's by the other guys. Hey, here's a newsflash to people who I FEEL ARE TRYING TO HELP...ALL THE MISTAKES CARRY A LOT OF WEIGHT.

I just don't see why you guys can't get on the same page. I think one issue I see is Chris honestly has so much faith in JSA and PSA, that he wants to turn a blind eye to their issues. And Trav, you seem to want to "just attack the big guys".

How about admitting this whole thing is a BIG PROBLEM? Honestly, I don't see how anyone can trust ANYTHING ANYMORE. So many collectors have items that they may not trust anymore. We see posts on here of people buying things w alphabet letters, and now being nervous. Its a real hard situation, but the constant one upping and bickering is NOT helping.

BTW Trav, the Sayers thing is PATHETIC AND RIDICULOUS. you can't say " We have no reason to believe its not authentic" and such, or that something is, when there is nothing to compare to. I mean, I could write Pontius Pilate on a piece of paper w an old pen, and w/out exemplars, someone prob would pass it.

Scott Roberts.

Scott, I have never written or verbalized that PSA or JSA is perfect. They have made mistakes. Honest mistakes. We all make mistakes. We are all human.

I made a point a before about there being approximately 800 Mickey Mantle autographs on Ebay that are either PSA or JSA certed. I scanned as many as I could and didn't see one that was incorrectly authenticated. I don't see any Morales, TTA, or Stat Authentic certed Mickey Mantle autographs on Ebay, because that crap gets removed when reported.

I don't turn a blind eye to anything, but I'd rather deal with a company that makes honest mistakes than with someone who gives blanket authentication to anything that crosses their desk.

There's all kinds of problems with the hobby whether it be grading or autographs, that's just the way it is. The grading of cards and the authentication of autographs are done by humans. Do you know of any human beings on this earth that are perfect? I don't.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Very revealing, Travis. If that Spence certed Ali was incorrectly authenticated I'm sure would have commented, but since that Ali is good you don't want to say in public "that it is good."

To the members of Net54, that JSA certed Ali is 100% authentic, but Travis doesn't dare offend his friends by stating in public, that it is in fact, an authentic signature of Muhammad Ali. One thing is for sure, and that is, if that JSA certed Ali was incorrectly authenticated, Travis would have been all over it.

Your feeble attempt to lend credibility to Coach's Corner is pathetic at best.

i am trying to say is that it doesnt matter anymore when the procedures they are suppose to follow are nonexistant.

gai was equal to psa and before they went crazy authenticating anything under the sun, if someone would have said they were really screwing up, a lot of people would have defended gai, because they have a lot of stuff certed by gai and they dont want those certs to be worthless.

but eventually even the blind can see that gai rubber stamped stuff, so they can't defend gai anymore. it's even fashionable to go on the anti-gai bandwagon, well, its easy to do that when they are bankrupt, no longer in business and an easy target. but to people that say it early, they would have gotten hammered because it was fashionable to defend gai due to the interest collectors had in gai remaining credible and still in business offering the precious golden certs that make a collection real, right?

when these other big companies turn the corner into gai territory, then watch the people jump off the bandwagon and say "i had a funny feeling about them all along" or "i knew it"

They will be johnny come lately's, and the people who really knew it all along take abuse, and wont get the credit for trying to alert the public ahead of time.

there are some that loved gai and then love psa or jsa, whichever is the most popular at the moment, they are a 49'ers fan in the 80's, a cowboys fan in the 90's and a patriots fan in the 2000's.

[thetruthisoutthere]

This is the Coach's Corner auction that started this thread. What a bunch of hypocrites over there at Coach's Corner. But I'm sure they'll take their 20% commission from the sale of that authentic Ali signature. Hypocrites!!!

CC-Travis-2.jpg

CC-Travis-3.jpg

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Coaches corner starting to issue a disclaimer concerning authenticaton. It's a start. Baby steps.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=308175

So if Scott Malack and Lee Trythall find that Ali questionable, why don't they just remove it from their auction listing?

But in the meantime, they have no problem selling a pathetic Derek Jeter forgery like the one below.

CC-Travis-4.jpg

[travrosty]

i was just pointing out that they were STARTING to go after the problem authenticators, just like people wanted them to.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

i was just pointing out that they were STARTING to go after the problem authenticators, just like people wanted them to.

No they aren't...if you ever see them question a Morales, Ted Taylor or Priddy cert then you can say they are STARTING...they are merely taking a dig at the guy who gets it right more often than not. If they were STARTING they'd start with the guys who get it wrong 99.9% of the time.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

no they aren't...if you ever see them question a morales, ted taylor or priddy cert then you can say they are starting...they are merely taking a dig at the guy who gets it right more often than not. If they were starting they'd start with the guys who get it wrong 99.9% of the time.

+100

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

No they aren't...if you ever see them question a Morales, Ted Taylor or Priddy cert then you can say they are STARTING...they are merely taking a dig at the guy who gets it right more often than not. If they were STARTING they'd start with the guys who get it wrong 99.9% of the time.

This is so obvious, it seems a waste of time to even be debating it. Gee, let's go after the guys who are right 99% instead of the guys that are wrong 99% (with intent to deceive).

Rather than quibble over obvious topics, I would be more curious to know the motivation and origins of Travis' vendetta against Spence and PSA. At one time, they must have rejected a piece or two that were near and dear to his heart.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

No they aren't...if you ever see them question a Morales, Ted Taylor or Priddy cert then you can say they are STARTING...they are merely taking a dig at the guy who gets it right more often than not. If they were STARTING they'd start with the guys who get it wrong 99.9% of the time.

Right you are Dan.
If they ever take a dig at their regular authenticators, I am gonna throw one big NYC party and all are invited.
Everyone on here knows I too have issues with the alphabet guys, but it is the height of hypocrisy to single out one of them and not even whisper about their own regulars.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by perezfan

This is so obvious, it seems a waste of time to even be debating it. Gee, let's go after the guys who are right 99% instead of the guys that are wrong 99% (with intent to deceive).

Rather than quibble over obvious topics, I would be more curious to know the motivation and origins of Travis' vendetta against Spence and PSA. At one time, they must have rejected a piece or two that were near and dear to his heart.

I would take major issue with the "99% right" statement but I think Travis' anger is directed at the TPA's because they allege to have knowledge of boxing autographs and in reality they do not. They apparently have made many, many mistakes, one of which actually went to court, where the TPA was proven to be wrong.
Boxing in general is what is near and dear to Travis' heart.

[David Atkatz]

I think we should be calling a spade a spade. Morales et. al. don't "get it wrong" 99.9% of the time. On the contrary. They know full well what they are certing is garbage. They play the same role with today's forgers as the J. DiMaggio Co. played for Marino. They lie.

They are not authenticators. They are thieves.

That leaves JSA and PSA. And they are nowhere near being the experts they claim to be.

[thenavarro]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I think we should be calling a spade a spade. Morales et. al. don't "get it wrong" 99.9% of the time. On the contrary. They know full well what they are certing is garbage. They play the same role with today's forgers as the J. DiMaggio Co. played for Marino. They lie.

They are not authenticators. They are thieves.

That leaves JSA and PSA. And they are nowhere near being the experts they claim to be.

Very good post.

[GrayGhost]

WE KNOW they aren't perfect, or nowhere near the experts. But, how many times do we NEED TO HEAR IT?

[David Atkatz]

Are you having trouble with your eyesight, Scott?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I think we should be calling a spade a spade. Morales et. al. don't "get it wrong" 99.9% of the time. On the contrary. They know full well what they are certing is garbage. They play the same role with today's forgers as the J. DiMaggio Co. played for Marino. They lie.

They are not authenticators. They are thieves.

That leaves JSA and PSA. And they are nowhere near being the experts they claim to be.

david, yes

people want to lump both issues together, and they are separate issues.


we know pro wrestling is fake. but when real freestyle olympic wrestling is having a scandal, for someone to come and say "why are you focusing on that when all of the this pro wrestling is fake and needs to be focused on first."

Well, there is a segment of society that believes pro wrestling is real no matter how many times you shout it is fake. the rest of us figured it out a long time ago.

but when the legitimate wrestling world is wrestling with a scandal, why drop it and tell people that pro wrestling is fake, and the washington generals arent really trying hard to stop the globetrotters? someone else can do that.

I am trying to get the legitimate wrestling to reform its ways, but to drop it and go after the pro wrestling circuit doesnt get anything done to achieve those goals.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Are you having trouble with your eyesight, Scott?

No, but its sickening. its always the same crap over and over and over again. I know that there are issues w everyone of the authenticators, FDE's, etc. but its just over and over and over again. PLEASE STOP SOME or keep it in one thread..

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I think we should be calling a spade a spade. Morales et. al. don't "get it wrong" 99.9% of the time. On the contrary. They know full well what they are certing is garbage. They play the same role with today's forgers as the J. DiMaggio Co. played for Marino. They lie.

They are not authenticators. They are thieves.

That leaves JSA and PSA. And they are nowhere near being the experts they claim to be.

I agree, excellent post, and surprisingly, nobody seems to have come out and said it so bluntly before. How about we all stop calling Morales, TTA, Max, etc. "authenticators" from now on? They are part of a scamming system that is merrily chugging along.

Ken

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

david, yes

people want to lump both issues together, and they are separate issues.


we know pro wrestling is fake. but when real freestyle olympic wrestling is having a scandal, for someone to come and say "why are you focusing on that when all of the this pro wrestling is fake and needs to be focused on first."

Well, there is a segment of society that believes pro wrestling is real no matter how many times you shout it is fake. the rest of us figured it out a long time ago.

but when the legitimate wrestling world is wrestling with a scandal, why drop it and tell people that pro wrestling is fake, and the washington generals arent really trying hard to stop the globetrotters? someone else can do that.

I am trying to get the legitimate wrestling to reform its ways, but to drop it and go after the pro wrestling circuit doesnt get anything done to achieve those goals.

Then why did you say that what CC did was a "Start"? Their intention is not to shed light on the bad aspects of ABC certification companies..it was an attempt to deflect from the joke that is their own certification companies of choice. No whistle blowing, no "Starting"...more like Baghdad Bob screaming "ALL IS WELL!!"

[Wymers Auction]

Chris I see your posts on youtube once in awhile and a part of me applauds what you do and then the the other part makes my hair stand on end. You never tell why these are forgeries ever. Never mentioning the wrong slant, letter sizing, speed, or anything. Believe me I do not like CC more than anyone else, but put your money where your mouth is so to speak and explain why those items are so terrible. I know this is reading like a personal attack, but that really is not my intention. I think your videos would be more effective with greater informational substance instead of ranting. I am not a forsenic expert guaranteed or nor will I pretend to be. Another thing is CC is not the only kid on the forger's block. Check this stuff out http://proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=47970

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Chris I see your posts on youtube once in awhile and a part of me applauds what you do and then the the other part makes my hair stand on end. You never tell why these are forgeries ever. Never mentioning the wrong slant, letter sizing, speed, or anything. Believe me I do not like CC more than anyone else, but put your money where your mouth is so to speak and explain why those items are so terrible. I know this is reading like a personal attack, but that really is not my intention. I think your videos would be more effective with greater informational substance instead of ranting. I am not a forsenic expert guaranteed or nor will I pretend to be. Another thing is CC is not the only kid on the forger's block. Check this stuff out http://proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=47970

He does not go into specifics and really none of the autograph experts here will go into specifics because they don't want to give tips to the forgers.

[Wymers Auction]

Thanks Dan I really was not trying to antagonize Chris I love baseball cards, but not nearly as experienced with these items as most that I see on here. Your explanation makes really good sense to me. Thanks

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Thanks Dan I really was not trying to antagonize Chris I love baseball cards, but not nearly as experienced with these items as most that I see on here. Your explanation makes really good sense to me. Thanks

No problem...I once asked the same question.