Psa flip experts needed!!!

[begsu1013]

disclaimer: this is NOT my card, but it was attempted to be sold to me a few months back and is currently still being shopped around. I know this is the wrong forum, but hoping for a little leniency considering the value, potential harm this thing could cause another collector and the fact that my question is in regards to the flip itself, not the era of the card in it:

I do have my opinion, but what is the general consensus on this flip?

[ullmandds]

i concur...I see a flip.

[wondo]

For a card of this value, go directly to PSA. If something is wrong, they are the folks to deal with it. Good luck.

[begsu1013]

wondo,

I tried that a few months back and never even got a reply.

[bobbyw8469]

Here is the original card.....



It was sold by Memory Lane in 2009. There are some spots of yellow in the green banner that aren't showing up in yours. You can always call Memory Lane and they can get you in touch with who won the card in 2009.

[Sean]

I see what appears to be frosting running the length of the left side of the holder. It appears that it was opened and re-closed.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Sean

I see what appears to be frosting running the length of the left side of the holder. It appears that it was opened and re-closed.

This is a very sophisticated fake created by someone working out of Mexico. In hand you can quickly and easily tell the flip is off. The holder is real, the card is real, the back of the flip is real but does not match the generation of the slab it is contained in. I was offered this card about 5 or 6 months ago with a large grouping of items. This crook is prominent and using tons of pawns to distribute his junk in the states while never coming anywhere near the border.

[7nohitter]

Hi Sean,

You seem to be familiar with some specifics of this crook. Is there any more information you could share?

Thanks

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Here is the original card.....



It was sold by Memory Lane in 2009. There are some spots of yellow in the green banner that aren't showing up in yours. You can always call Memory Lane and they can get you in touch with who won the card in 2009.

The crazy thing is that the original card does not even appear to be a 10. It has a very slight cant or tilt to the left and is not perfectly centered which is more evident along the right border. I realize this is not the point of this discussion but it is crazy to see some of these 10s in holders bringing multiple thousands above Mint 9 prices when in fact, they appear or could be interchangeable on any given day. I think those that pay those premiums are CRAZY!

Mike

[begsu1013]

thanks guys. this was the exact conclusion I came to as well. I tried searching for the original card/flip but couldn't find it! thanks to all.

I have told this individual it was a fake however he is still shopping it and attempted to sell it off to a buddy of mine (emmitt)


several things that stuck out like a sore thumb were: the overall font, spacing, the "8" in 1980 isn't level, the two "PP's" in topps.

I asked him to do the light thru the flip test as well and never got any communication afterwards.

again thanks to all and for the leniency of being in this forum. this one just get's more eyes and these are the opinions I value!

-Bob Evans

[Leon]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

thanks guys. this was the exact conclusion I came to as well. I tried searching for the original card/flip but couldn't find it! thanks to all.

I have told this individual it was a fake however he is still shopping it and attempted to sell it off to a buddy of mine (emmitt)


several things that stuck out like a sore thumb were: the overall font, spacing, the "8" in 1980 isn't level, the two "PP's" in topps.

I asked him to do the light thru the flip test as well and never got any communication afterwards.

again thanks to all and for the leniency of being in this forum. this one just get's more eyes and these are the opinions I value!

-Bob Evans

No problem on a bit of leniency Bob. Important things need more eyes, we are usually cool with that.
I am guessing the ring of fraudsters Sean refers to is the same one that has been selling a lof of high end bogus PSA cards on Craigslist for years. A couple? years ago I was quite involved with this case. The Dept. of Homeland Security and Secret Service have been working on it as it seems to have a perpetrator, who is the ringleader, that is out of this country (not so positive on that though).... He is good at what he does unfortunately.

Originally Posted by begsu1013

thanks guys. this was the exact conclusion I came to as well. I tried searching for the original card/flip but couldn't find it! thanks to all.

I have told this individual it was a fake however he is still shopping it and attempted to sell it off to a buddy of mine (emmitt)


several things that stuck out like a sore thumb were: the overall font, spacing, the "8" in 1980 isn't level, the two "PP's" in topps.

I asked him to do the light thru the flip test as well and never got any communication afterwards.

again thanks to all and for the leniency of being in this forum. this one just get's more eyes and these are the opinions I value!

-Bob Evans

You're not THE Bob Evans are you?

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

You're not THE Bob Evans are you?

I am a Bob Evans, but no matter which one would never claim to be THE Bob Evans. I do have a decent collection though. ; )

sean and leon,

Yes, it seems the fraudsters have gotten better and better unfortunately. a few years ago, the barcodes didn't even match. I would use the red laser app and as long as they had a decent pic posted you could scan them w/ your phone. However all that changed about a year ago. They've gotten so sophisticated that they actually match these days. I couldn't get a good enough resolution to scan the Henderson, but it appears that they even attempted to have the barcode positioned in the same manner as the original. in the end, it's sickening and despicable. what's worse is that poor collectors that have gotten duped are trying to pass them off on other collectors instead of chaulking it up to a lesson learned, albeit a pretty expensive one!

thanks again for the help and info!

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

... I realize this is not the point of this discussion but it is crazy to see some of these 10s in holders bringing multiple thousands above Mint 9 prices when in fact, they appear or could be interchangeable on any given day. I think those that pay those premiums are CRAZY!

Mike

+++1 on that! I recently heard of someone paying $35K for a PSA 10 Ozzie Smith rookie--I could rationally see a "10" bringing 5X or (outer limits) 10X what a nice NMMT 8 would fetch, but that is insane! There are a lot better ways to spend that amount on truly rare and significant cards, as opposed to spending $30,000 plus on a plastic holder with a paper slip encapsulated in it!

Highest regards,

Larry

[begsu1013]

I tend to agree as well. I have and will spend $30K on a 52 mantle. a 1980 Henderson? wouldn't even consider it!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

I tend to agree as well. I have and will spend $30K on a 52 mantle. a 1980 Henderson? wouldn't even consider it!

Just slightly different degrees of crazy...that's all!

[begsu1013]

crazy is an understatement for me!