Joe Mauer announces retirement: HOF? Make Your Case:

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Edgar. 2247 hits, 309 hr, 1261 RBI, 312 ba, 933 ops
Ortiz. 2472 hits, 541 hr, 1768 RBI, 286 ba, 931 ops
Seriously? Ortiz has 200+ more hits, 200+ more hr and 500+ more RBI not to mention 3 ws rings and Edgar is better because of WAR and OPS? I guess in your opinion. I'm not sure how many would agree.

Originally Posted by packs

Glad you brought up David Ortiz because Edgar's WAR is 68.4 compared to Ortiz at 55.3. That's a HUGE margin of difference for a guy you say had some kind of prestige number that Edgar didn't. Not to mention that both Edgar's OPS and OPS+ are each higher than Ortiz, as is his career on base.

For a guy who wasn't very good, he seems to be better than anyone you brought up.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I always thought of Edgar as similar to Bernie Williams in terms of hitting, and of course Bernie played a prime position, and well.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Edgar. 2247 hits, 309 hr, 1261 RBI, 312 ba, 933 ops
Ortiz. 2472 hits, 541 hr, 1768 RBI, 286 ba, 931 ops
Seriously? Ortiz has 200+ more hits, 200+ more hr and 500+ more RBI not to mention 3 ws rings and Edgar is better because of WAR and OPS? I guess in your opinion. I'm not sure how many would agree.

Why do people always bring up WAR as it relates to player's value if it doesn't relate to a player's value? There is such a huge disparity between Edgar and Ortiz in terms of WAR despite Edgar having a significantly shorter career. How do you explain that difference? Ortiz's best output was 6.4 in any one season. Edgar's is 7.0, and he went on to eclipse Ortiz's benchmark 2 other times when he put up seasons of 6.5. Ortiz was only worth 6 or more wins that one single time. Edgar put up a WAR higher than 6.0 five times.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Why do people always bring up WAR as it relates to player's value if it doesn't relate to a player's value? There is such a huge disparity between Edgar and Ortiz in terms of WAR despite Edgar having a significantly shorter career. How do you explain that difference?

What IS the explanation? Often the answer in counterintuitive comparisons like that is that one guy just didn't draw walks, but that's not true of Ortiz.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What IS the explanation? Often the answer in counterintuitive comparisons like that is that one guy just didn't draw walks, but that's not true of Ortiz.

I would say the explanation is Edgar was a superior player who was more valuable to his team.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I would say the explanation is Edgar was a superior player who was more valuable to his team.

But that's subjective, in terms of the WAR calculation do you know?

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

But that's subjective, in terms of the WAR calculation do you know?

Do I have to? It's a stat referenced all the time in discussions about a player's value.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Edgar's WAR is a statistical anomaly that can't be explained. I can't even imagine how they calculated it. He's right around the level of Fisk Murray and Gwynn who all had significantly better and longer careers than Edgar. I'm not sure how they calculate for a DH because for other players defense is part of the equation. I doubt that anyone thinks that Edgar had as much of an impact on the game as Eddie Murray. And Ortiz numbers dwarf Edgar. Thats why a lot of fans like hard numbers - they never lie. 500 hr is more than 300.

Originally Posted by packs

Why do people always bring up WAR as it relates to player's value if it doesn't relate to a player's value? There is such a huge disparity between Edgar and Ortiz in terms of WAR despite Edgar having a significantly shorter career. How do you explain that difference?