Another card investment thread

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

I think it's completely realistic and tangible to say that people put money in the stock market and in baseball cards without doing enough due diligence. And real estate, currency, stamps and on and on, traditional or not.

Sorry, while I agree that people should know what they're investing in, this logic is spurious.
Line up people with money to invest and ask them which they would sooner choose, baseball cards or the stock market... with no knowledge whatsoever of either, most if not all will choose the stock market. Again, one is tried and tested, the other, not in any perceivable way, hence, the comparison is not apt.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Sorry, while I agree that people should know what they're investing in, this logic is spurious.
Line up people with money to invest and ask them which they would sooner choose, baseball cards or the stock market... with no knowledge whatsoever of either, most if not all will choose the stock market. Again, one is tried and tested, the other, not in any perceivable way, hence, the comparison is not apt.

I think the point of comparison with the stock market is that both cards and stocks have uneducated people investing, which is apt because the risk inherent in that approach (regardless of investment type). This thread is not an "either/or" exercise about lining people up to pick sides, as I have read it.
Even so, on this tangent, I might take the side that the sports card market has at least some perceivable way been tested through a few decades of auction house results, even if this testing is in its infancy.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

I would buy the cleanest Babe Ruth ball I could find.

[tschock]

Put it all in pre-1982 pennies. With the current meltdown value of just under 2 cents per penny, you could almost double your money in a few weeks. Just don't tell anyone.

[The Nasty Nati]

Does anyone also collect/invest in higher-end art? I'm wondering if there are similar correlations between art and baseball cards.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Does anyone also collect/invest in higher-end art? I'm wondering if there are similar correlations between art and baseball cards.

I collect various forms of art but I wouldn't categorize them as higher end! In the art world higher end implies many many millions to me?

[Econteachert205]

A little cold water: posts that begin like this usually signify market tops.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

I think the point of comparison with the stock market is that both cards and stocks have uneducated people investing, which is apt because the risk inherent in that approach (regardless of investment type). This thread is not an "either/or" exercise about lining people up to pick sides, as I have read it.
Even so, on this tangent, I might take the side that the sports card market has at least some perceivable way been tested through a few decades of auction house results, even if this testing is in its infancy.

If this "tested through a few decades of auction house results" was in any way whatsoever perceived as legitimate, investors would be lining up, as traders are constantly looking for the newest or next big thing. This is not happening in any shape or form.

And the original question postulated was should people putting money into cards with no knowledge be concerning to others, with the answer I questioned being NOT ANYMORE SO than the stock market....
so yes, there is an either/or as baseball card investments to an endless plethora would be MORE concerning - regardless of knowledge of either - because of the aforementioned reasons given, ie, established market, registered companies, accumulative gains/loses, feasible research and on and on...

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

If this "tested through a few decades of auction house results" was in any way whatsoever perceived as legitimate, investors would be lining up, as traders are constantly looking for the newest or next big thing. This is not happening in any shape or form.

I think we may be seeing things from a different angle. But from my corner of the hobby (and I am one of the smaller-scale collectors out there), and forgive me if this is addressing a different point than you are making, this IS happening in ways, shapes and forms. Investors do appear to be lining up, and have been. Various threads on this board address the numerous articles by Forbes on investing in baseball cards, collectors here and elsewhere often bring up the specter of "foreign investors" or somesuch when diving into price surges, PWCC has a section on their website for "Investors," the term "investment grade" is now well-established in the hobby, and even threads on this board dating from 2002 discuss investment in cards - and I'm sure there's many many other examples out there.
Anyway, I feel like this is a big tangent on a thread designed to help a board member's family in finding cards to fit their goals, and the tangent is perhaps belabored by now. Apologies to the OP if this has detracted from your inquiry!

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

I think we may be seeing things from a different angle. But from my corner of the hobby (and I am one of the smaller-scale collectors out there), and forgive me if this is addressing a different point than you are making, this IS happening in ways, shapes and forms. Investors do appear to be lining up, and have been. Various threads on this board address the numerous articles by Forbes on investing in baseball cards, collectors here and elsewhere often bring up the specter of "foreign investors" or somesuch when diving into price surges, PWCC has a section on their website for "Investors," the term "investment grade" is now well-established in the hobby, and even threads on this board dating from 2002 discuss investment in cards - and I'm sure there's many many other examples out there.
Anyway, I feel like this is a big tangent on a thread designed to help a board member's family in finding cards to fit their goals, and the tangent is perhaps belabored by now. Apologies to the OP if this has detracted from your inquiry!

Regardless of how you try and rationalize it, the point is irrefutable that investing in baseball cards in no way compares to making investments in the stock market, and never will. How knowledgeable people are is inconsequential, for investor security and peace of mind, the stock market will always trump fly by night investments... period.

[Orioles1954]

PSA graded Michael Jordan rookies.

[Throttlesteer]

Dare I say that most of the suggestions are biased from actual collectors, not investors. I'm not claiming that Cobbs, Ruths, or some of the other suggestions haven't appreciated quite a bit. But, if you truly were in it to maximize your return, you probably wouldn't ask a bunch of collectors their opinions or base you approach on the last 12 months of anecdotal trending. I suggested T206 commons earlier because they seem to outpace most of the HOFers as a percentage over the past several years. Additionally, if you evaluate the risk of higher grade T206, 33 Goudey, 52 Topps HOFers being altered and at some point being "outed", the lower grade stuff or commons provide a little more security over the long haul.

Again, these are just my opinions and anyone serious about investing in cards should do a lot more research and a lot less listening to the collectors on this board. We're just going to tell you what we want and what we're willing to throw our wallets at.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Regardless of how you try and rationalize it, the point is irrefutable that investing in baseball cards in no way compares to making investments in the stock market, and never will. How knowledgeable people are is inconsequential, for investor security and peace of mind, the stock market will always trump fly by night investments... period.

Clearly at an impasse. I respect your unwavering commitment to not budge on the point, but will respectfully disagree that these two investments, or any two things in general, cannot be compared. I've had many a productive discussion on the matter and will look forward to others who are willing to explore the topic.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

Clearly at an impasse. I respect your unwavering commitment to not budge on the point, but will respectfully disagree that these two investments, or any two things in general, cannot be compared. I've had many a productive discussion on the matter and will look forward to others who are willing to explore the topic.

What is there to budge on? If you were able to provide a cogent counter to what I stated, you would've done so, and with all due respect, I saw no evidence of that. In my opinion, you were not able to dispel the fact that the stock market to most would be a safer investment than baseball cards.

It's nothing at all personal, you seem like a well spoken, intelligent individual. I'm sure there are many topics we would agree on.

And be fair, there are certainly things in life that are not comparable.... like maybe a Ford Pinto and Ferrari F40

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

So people now want to invest in baseball cards without being card collectors and without any knowledge of what they should buy. Does that concern anyone?

Ummm...did you read the OP? They are asking questions of knowledgeable folks, like you would ask an investment adviser about which stocks/funds to buy. Face it, sports cards have become a commodity.

Originally Posted by groundskeeper

Cobb seems like a blue chip legend but if even a TASTE of the social justice movement gets into this hobby, he is going to take a serious hit. I know I avoid Cap Anson cards for this reason. Try selling that in 20 years for a profit (over inflation).

Ruth is the king. The gold standard.

Ummm....Ruth was no golden boy. If the social justice movement is now asking to remove Thomas Jefferson statues and his name from buildings (they are), what makes you think they will ignore Ruth. Pretty soon Yankee Stadium will be "The House that Ruth Mantle Arod Whitey Billy Mo Built" Mo may be the only one left standing.

And back to the OPs question, I would invest in high grade, recognizable names - Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, Robinson, Aaron, Mays, Williams, Dimaggio, etc.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

Ummm...did you read the OP? They are asking questions of knowledgeable folks, like you would ask an investment adviser about which stocks/funds to buy. Face it, sports cards have become a commodity.



Ummm....Ruth was no golden boy. If the social justice movement is now asking to remove Thomas Jefferson statues and his name from buildings (they are), what makes you think they will ignore Ruth. Pretty soon Yankee Stadium will be "The House that Ruth Mantle Arod Whitey Billy Mo Built" Mo may be the only one left standing.

And back to the OPs question, I would invest in high grade, recognizable names - Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, Robinson, Aaron, Mays, Williams, Dimaggio, etc.

Yeah how offensive to name something after Jefferson. Who's next, Lincoln?

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

And back to the OPs question, I would invest in high grade, recognizable names - Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, Robinson, Aaron, Mays, Williams, Dimaggio, etc.

+1

Add to that...

Joe Jackson...Derek Jeter, Mike Trout, Bryce Harper.

Oh, and T206 rare backs.

PS- Barry (Hi Barry), where have you been brother? Non-Collectors have been dipping into the Hobby for YEARS! And as someone above mentioned, that's a good thing for the Hobby. Recognize that.

[pokerplyr80]

I'd pick one card you'll enjoy owning and looking at for a while. Go with a big name and hope for the best. I'd stick with Cobb, Ruth, Gehrig, Joe Jackson, or Mantle.

I wouldn't worry about any social justice warriors. I doubt many are in the hobby and I also doubt many in the hobby care much for their opinions. I sure don't.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

+1

Add to that...

Joe Jackson...Derek Jeter, Mike Trout, Bryce Harper.

Oh, and T206 rare backs.

PS- Barry (Hi Barry), where have you been brother? Non-Collectors have been dipping into the Hobby for YEARS! And as someone above mentioned, that's a good thing for the Hobby. Recognize that.

Hi Michael,
I sold baseball cards for thirty years, but never knew the level of commitment of each buyer. I didn't know who was a serious collector and who was a speculator. I just cashed the checks.

But my point is learn something about the hobby before you sink serious money into it. The more you learn yourself, the better off you will be.