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  #1  
Old 01-16-2018, 09:43 PM
Steve_NY Steve_NY is offline
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Default PSA Grading of Unopened Packs from 1948 to 1970

I have recently found myself buying baseball and other sports packs from the 1940s to 1970. Few if any have corner holes and few also have broken gum. I have read the PSA grading standards for pack grading and see that corner damages are acceptable in many grades. But I also read that PSA was not grading wax packs with broken gum or gum that is floating within the pack and not attached to a card. Is that up to date and correct? I have seen some magnificent packs where the gum was broken and shouldn't think that should be the deciding factor on not to grade a pack. Corner holes could but don't always signal that a pack has been opened. I guess that PSA is concerned about perfect packs that are sent in for grading where the gum breaks in transit. I am also constantly shocked by the grades that some packs get and then when they are placed in a holder, they just do not look as nice as they had before. Just check some of the graded packs on eBay or those sold in many major auction houses. Being from the old school, I still prefer an ungraded pack but I do see the reasoning behind validating the authenticity of an unopened pack. Either way, I would love to hear more opinions.

Steve Sabow
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2018, 12:38 AM
jfkheat jfkheat is offline
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The reason PSA stopped grading packs with loose gum is because the gum would slide around and poke holes in the wrapped. Packs that were originally graded 8 or 9 are no longer 8 or 9 quality since they now have punctures in the wrapper.
James
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2018, 01:34 PM
Steve_NY Steve_NY is offline
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Yes but that doesn't signify that the pack has been opened. It is just their policy not to grade such packs. I also suspect that there are a large number of packs that can't be graded for just that reason. It seems to me that this policy is unfair as they do grade packs that have one or more opened corners.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:45 PM
packs packs is offline
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That seems like a weird reason not to grade. If a pack from 1960 has broken gum and no tears in the pack, why would it then tear in the future after being held stationary inside of a slab? Makes no sense. It's already had 50 years to tear.
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:45 PM
Griffins Griffins is offline
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because PSA's holders don't properly protect the pack from movement, or from gum moving inside the pack.
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  #6  
Old 01-17-2018, 02:54 PM
packs packs is offline
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If life can protect a pack with broken gum from being ripped apart by the gum, so can any case you choose to put it in. I can see an argument for not grading packs with tears, but if a pack hasn't been torn from just being in the world, it's not going to tear if it's put into a holder either.

Last edited by packs; 01-17-2018 at 02:55 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-17-2018, 04:26 PM
Paul S Paul S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
If life can protect a pack with broken gum from being ripped apart by the gum, so can any case you choose to put it in. I can see an argument for not grading packs with tears, but if a pack hasn't been torn from just being in the world, it's not going to tear if it's put into a holder either.
Uh...my money's on Anthony with this one.
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  #8  
Old 01-17-2018, 05:22 PM
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swarmee swarmee is offline
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No, that's the reason they used to not do it. I think they were making their pack slabs better in order to grade packs with broken/shifting gum, but am not sure if they are yet. Call them.
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #9  
Old 01-17-2018, 05:34 PM
botn botn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
No, that's the reason they used to not do it. I think they were making their pack slabs better in order to grade packs with broken/shifting gum, but am not sure if they are yet. Call them.
I spoke with Steve Hart about this not too long ago and packs with loose or broken gum are no longer a problem to grade.
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  #10  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:59 AM
Steve_NY Steve_NY is offline
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If Steve Hart has indicated that PSA will now grade packs with broken gum or moving gum, that is terrific news. I have some packs that look brand new that have broken gum. It would help if the PSA grading standards were revised to reflect this detail. Personally, I would prefer a pack with broken gum than a pack with holes in the corners. I would rather have a complete pack with no broken gum, but sometimes the availability is just not there, and you have to settle for second best. Sometimes you also settle for the pack with holes in the corner. Either way, as long as there is no evidence of resealing, than this would be the optimum situation.

Also, has PSA approved changes in their holders that do no damage to the packs themselves? My concern is that many graded packs that I have seen just don't really look like they belong in the grade they were assigned, which signals to me that the pack was damaged by PSA themselves, when they loaded them into the holder. Has this issue been dealt with properly?
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:13 AM
botn botn is offline
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My guess is that you have seen packs that might appear to be over graded due to the fact the loose or broken gum slid around and damaged the wrappers. The reason that PSA is now willing to grade packs with loose or broken gum IS because that is no longer a factor which implies to me that they resolved the problem with packs or gum moving in the holder.
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:14 AM
packs packs is offline
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Someone said something about putting money on someone. Does this mean I won the bet?
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:15 PM
Paul S Paul S is offline
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Someone said something about putting money on someone. Does this mean I won the bet?
I'll settle up soon as my brother-in-law straightens up with me...he's a hunchback
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Old 01-18-2018, 04:34 PM
murphy8276 murphy8276 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_NY View Post
Also, has PSA approved changes in their holders that do no damage to the packs themselves? My concern is that many graded packs that I have seen just don't really look like they belong in the grade they were assigned, which signals to me that the pack was damaged by PSA themselves, when they loaded them into the holder. Has this issue been dealt with properly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by botn View Post
My guess is that you have seen packs that might appear to be over graded due to the fact the loose or broken gum slid around and damaged the wrappers. The reason that PSA is now willing to grade packs with loose or broken gum IS because that is no longer a factor which implies to me that they resolved the problem with packs or gum moving in the holder.
The short answer to this is NO.

Last edited by murphy8276; 01-18-2018 at 08:35 PM.
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  #15  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:12 PM
Steve_NY Steve_NY is offline
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I guess that means I am still uncomfortable grading valuable wax packs. For example, several years ago, I sold a first series Wacky Packages 1973 unopened pack to a customer who had it graded by PSA and they ruined the pack. They made up for the damages, but I have always been spooked about grading really expensive packs. So I still think that my customers will have to grade my packs on their own or pass if they have any concerns. Stop by my booth at this year's National in Cleveland as I will be showcasing over 200 packs from 1949 to 1970 in all sports and non-sports. Some of these are quite rare, but since they are ungraded, I prefer to sell face to face so you can see their condition, and then grade them if you decide to do so.

Steve Sabow
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