ok...T204 Ramly Plank...how big of a mistake did I make??

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Posted By: MVSNYC

as mentioned above, in such a case you absolutely crack-it out. if you send PSA or SGC a card in a CSA or PRO holder, then there is already this assumption that it has been altered, because those companies are notorious for slabbing altered cards. so by sending it in raw, they will look at it with no preconceived notions. gabeesh?

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Posted By: Mark T

I believe Kevin does his checking of a card even though its slabbed.

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Posted By: Brian

Good luck on your gamble.

As for cracking out, my guess is that SGC will know where this card came from no matter how you submit it. They read these boards.

My money is on a AUTH holder, but I hope I am wrong.

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Posted By: Dave F

By the way...I posed the question above but it may get lost in the shuffle, I know Steve and a couple others looked at the possibility of the card being recolored, which is I guess fairly common with these Ramlys. But does anybody think that would have been done and no effort would have been made to get the mark off the back of the card? Trimming is obviously the major concern to me..I think.

Edited to say, I did communicate to someone about this card that is probably one of the most knowledgeable in the field about Ramlys (I'll leave his name private) and his concern bordered more on the card possibly being too oversized and not trimmed....which I guess would still just garner a grade of AUTH.

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Posted By: leon

On T204, T205 and N300's, the tips of the cards are notoriously known for being recolored. I thought I saw it on one of the tips on your card too...but too hard to tell from scan. I have had, and seen, many with this issue. Good luck on the card you bought.....If I had to take a guess I think it will be trimmed and recolored....but that is absolutely a guess....regards

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

Dave, I think that the card will grade either aut. or a 6. I have an oversized Plank that must have come from the sheet that was cut 10 or so years ago, so I don't think that it came from that sheet. I would look at card under black light to check for recoloring, but I don't think that it is recolored. The mark on the front looks like a fingernail indentation and the mark on the back looks like a dirt smudge. I think that the card may be slightly trimmed. I think SGC will have seen the card and would recognize it if you break it out, PSA probably not. SGC did grade many cards cut from that sheet years ago (they regret having graded them). I had my oversized Plank placed in an aut. holder and it looks great, your card looks even better.

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Posted By: Dave F

Thanks for the info Peter. Yours is definately one of the opinions I was wanting.

Dave

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Posted By: G. MAINES

Roll the dice again!

Crack it out and don't slab it.
Put it on the b/s/t raw.

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Posted By: quan

peter is right...sgc seems to be right on these kind of things. i think they have someone monitor the board and ebay etc.

leon, i can see the next board contest. will dave crack/resubmit or cross in the holder? AUT or #? if AUT then for what? If numerical then what grade? PSA or SGC? etc etc etc. we can have a full blown 20 question test in scantron form for a big Christmas prize

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Posted By: Dave F

Ahh you might be unto something Gil-

instead of cracking it out a CSA 8.5 Plank, looking for E98's Matty, Cobb, and Wagner straight up...maybe I'll list it tonight! lol.

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Posted By: Kevin Saucier

"Maybe it would be worth striking a deal with Kevin to get a feel ahead of time to determine what type of work if any has been done on the card."



I'd do it for free.



Kevin

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Posted By: Mark T

You and i may have something in the works.... (:

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Posted By: Dave F

It is funny Mark. There are a couple people that if lightening struck twice for me and this card did get a numerical grade that I'd obviously be willing to deal with ahead of just anyone else....but even with all the negative vibes about the card I've received some amusing offers for it as is, in its CSA state.

Heck, I even got an offer for a straight up deal on a E98 Matty SGC 10 worth probably $800

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Posted By: Ben

Dave did you get my email? I never heard back from you.

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Posted By: Dave F

Ben, if your being serious...then no I didn't get one from you.


Dave

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Posted By: Ben

Yes, I'm serious. I've been having problems with my hotmail account which is why I was asking. I'll try again through yahoo.

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Posted By: Sean

Zooming in on the large scan the corners seemed to be touched up...I'm not sure if this is altering but if it came back only recolored (not trimmed) could you wear down the corners to remove the color? It could still probably get it to grade a 3 or 4?

sdbh

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Posted By: Dave F

By the way...over the next couple days if anyone has ever busted out one of these CSA slabs I'd love to hear the best way to do it...the only ones I've ever done were SGC which were pretty easy with a flathead, obviously I don't want to screw this card up getting it out.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dave- yesterday I tried breaking open a PRO slab for one of my consignors and for the life of me I couldn't find the seam. Finally, I called SGC and they said just submit it as is and they would break it for me. How do you open a PRO holder?

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Posted By: Dave F

Barry...I've never tried a PRO holder either..but there is no way I'm submitting the card in the holder its in now..and I don't think in your case I'd submit one in a PRO holder either.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I'm fully aware that every card in a PRO holder is subject to doubt. But I refuse to sell it in a PRO, so either it will be graded NR MT or Authentic. That's a risk we have to take.

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Posted By: Mark T

Try this: Take a hack saw or small saw and cut off a small area near the 8.5 corner. Then use a flat head screwdriver and start to pry the cut corner open. As you do this the card should be on a flat surface with a towel below it. once it starts to separate use your fingers to help take off the top.

Of course be as gentle as possible....

I took one card out of a PRO holder and if i remember it was a bit tough but it came out undamaged. Never did a CSA but i am sure it will crack out just as the other graders do.

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Posted By: JK

Ive never opened up a pro or csa slab, but I open sgc and psa slabs the same way - take a small, handheld trimmer (like you'd use for trimming plants or small branches) and cut off one corner of the slab (preferably up where the flip is located). Once you have removed the corner, stick in a screw driver and separate the two halves. Very easy, just be careful of flying plastic when you cut off the corner.

I use something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-Traditional-Power-Lever-Anvil-Pruner/dp/B000NU4YL8/

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Posted By: barrysloate

SGC and PSA are easy to open...and I got a couple of cards from CTA whom I had never heard of before. Those were rather easy too. It took just a few seconds to find the seam.

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Posted By: Joe D.

I second Josh's method.

snip a corner.... then work the screwdriver.... watch out for flying plastic when you snip.

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Posted By: Joe Jones

Another point I would add is to keep the slab flat on a table during this process. If the slab is tipped vertically there is a possibility that the card will slide down and get pinched in the holder (could leave an indent on the card).

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Posted By: Jim VB

I have successfully used a tile nippers to clip a corner off. (These are usually used to cut little pieces of ceramic tile.) Little "bites" to start. Once you have an opening, the flat head to pry it open is the best.

They look like a pliers with a cutting blade turned sideways. You can pick them up at any Lowes, Home Depot, or hardware store.

http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Tough-GT-Tile-Nippers/dp/B000MDA3MA

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Posted By: Mike Snyder

I have always found that a band saw is most effective.
It will cut right through the plastic cleanly.
You must position the card where the cut will be close enough to the card so that it will just slip out when finished.
Tried and true!

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Posted By: quan

light saber...

cleanest.cut.ever!

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Posted By: Bob Lamb

Try a dremel tool with a small cutting bit...Bob

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Posted By: keyway

Go to a hardware store. They make a small plastic or formica cutting tool. Simply run it up the seam at the top corner of the card, 4, 5 or 6 times and it will open right up. I do it all the time. Make sure you pull the tool away from the card.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Barry, use a sledgehammer. Probably won't hurt the value of the card inside.

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

I've had good success with bolt cutters. Come to think of it, I've used those bolt cutters more on card slabs than on bolts.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Rob, I've got a small can of WD-40 on my desk at home -- which has never been used on anything but to remove goo on slabs.

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Careful, Jeff, I see a new post on the horizon: "How does using a commercial cleaner on you're (sic) card slabs impact prices of Barry Bonds cards?"

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jeff- I tried a quarter stick of dynamite...boy, that didn't work out too well!

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Posted By: Tom Nieves

Dave,

The person selling this card is a very experienced seller. You can be nearly certain that all of the reputable grading services have already seen this card at least once.

Tom

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Posted By: MVSNYC

c'mon Tom, don't ruin it for him...

hopefully he will get an early x-mas gift from SGC or PSA...

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Posted By: Tom Nieves

MVSNYC,

Not trying to ruin it for him. Just pointing out that this seller doesn't leave any money on the table. I don't think Dave would have purchased this card if he had known that the seller is a former PSA grader, a former auction house employee, and was at one time one of PSA's highest volume submitters.

Tom

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

<gulp>

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Posted By: Mark T

The seller should have stated that....


If the seller knew of any problems (altered or trimmed) with the card he should have listed it in the description.

Just my opinion...

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Who's the seller?

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Posted By: Tom Nieves

Tuttle (rockbottomsports, consignmints, jtcards, etc.)

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Well, at least he doesn't own the CSA machine that sealed that card.

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Posted By: Dave F

Tom-

I am not sure of his name..wasn't on the paypal transaction...just whatever email address it was...and I wasn't home today to pick up the package.
I think the entire time the chances of the card making it into a PSA 5 holder or quite slim...but, we are talking about PSA....you never know

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Posted By: Joe Jones

Take a look at the sellers latest Negative feedback and the item that was sold.

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Posted By: leon

the link

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320180063361

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Posted By: Sean BH

He has a few others:

Trimmed card, seller wouldn't reply to my inquiry, had to file claim with paypal jackchuck ( 200) Nov-09-07 10:25
Rating mutually withdrawn
Buyer and seller mutually agreed to withdraw feedback for this item. Learn more.
1952 TOPPS #55 RAY BOONE CSA 8 BLACK BACK (#320169020647) US $56.00 View Item

DON'T BUY CARDS FROM ANY SELLER, TRIMMED PER PSA, SELLER WON'T REFUND, LAME!!! jackchuck ( 200) Nov-09-07 10:25
Rating mutually withdrawn
Buyer and seller mutually agreed to withdraw feedback for this item. Learn more.
1952 TOPPS #401 BOB SCHULTZ CSA 8 (#320169020413) US $167.50 View Item

PSA determined Card was trimmed, seller wouldn't respond when contacted about it jackchuck ( 200) Nov-09-07 10:22
Rating mutually withdrawn
Buyer and seller mutually agreed to withdraw feedback for this item. Learn more.
1952 TOPPS #335 TED LEPICO CSA 8 (#320162469080) US $191.16 View Item

I guess there is a reason everything he sells is CSA graded.

sdbh

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Posted By: Steve

David

How did this work out?



Steve

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Posted By: Ben

Dave was kind enough to orchestrate a trade with me on the T204 Plank. Thanks Dave. It's a card I've always wanted, and one that will reside in my collection for a long time (I hope).

I plan on cracking it out. For the time being, I have no plans to submit it to any of the grading companies. I'm just thrilled to actually own a Ramly Plank in any condition.