Luke Heimlich - assaulting niece and MLB bound?

[pokerplyr80]

It's hard to know with certainty exactly what happened, but I just read a more detailed account and it sounds like one of the deciding factors in his decision to plead guilty was that the matter would be closed and the record sealed. It also sounds like it wasnt his fault this became public, but some kind of a mixup in an Oregon state office is to blame. An unfortunate mistake for Luke, especially if he really is innocent and got some bad advice from his family and legal counsel.

And even if he really did what he plead guilty to, I still dont like seeing someone's career ruined over something that happened when he was 13-15 years old.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

It's hard to know with certainty exactly what happened, but I just read a more detailed account and it sounds like one of the deciding factors in his decision to plead guilty was that the matter would be closed and the record sealed. It also sounds like it wasnt his fault this became public, but some kind of a mixup in an Oregon state office is to blame. An unfortunate mistake for Luke, especially if he really is innocent and got some bad advice from his family and legal counsel.

And even if he really did what he plead guilty to, I still dont like seeing someone's career ruined over something that happened when he was 13-15 years old.

right its hard to know...but you have to hire him based on assuming the worst...that he did do it......so if you are ok with that than fine...but its not fair to have 'second trial' of whether he really did it or not because than it would matter if he really did it (plus he knew the risks when pleading guilty that it could come out in the public)

If it mattered if he really did it, then you could have someone hiring him thinking he was innocent but come to find out he was not and thus taking a job away from someone else........no way every employer is going to be right about whether someone in his situation did it or not...so you have to assume the worst and decide if you still want him assuming he did it (and served his time and debt to society)

[packs]

I'm a little surprised by what people view as a second chance in life. A second chance at life means an individual has the opportunity to atone for what they've done, it doesn't mean a person has carte blanche to do all of the things he otherwise would have done.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm a little surprised by what people view as a second chance in life. A second chance at life means an individual has the opportunity to atone for what they've done, it doesn't mean a person has carte blanche to do all of the things he otherwise would have done.

Agree completely...

[earlywynnfan]

So you're saying if a person fulfills his punishment, and does not stray or break any other laws, he still should continue being punished?

If so, who decides what he is "allowed" to do in the future? In this case, it appears major league teams have decided they don't want to deal with him, fine. But if he was drafted, or later signs as a free agent, should there be a system in place saying "baseball is cool and you can make a lot of money at it, so Thou Shall Not Play!"??

[packs]

Felons can't participate in many aspects of society after being released: they can't own firearms, they can't vote while on probation or parole, their travel is restricted, and in some cases they can't live in certain areas. You act as though having things taken away from you in response to breaking a law is an alien concept. This guy can earn a living. Baseball is not his only avenue toward a productive life. If he can't do this one thing as a result of the crime he admitted to, that's his penance. There are many other jobs being a convicted felon excludes you from as well. If his dream was to be a police officer instead of a baseball player he can say goodbye to that too.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

Felons can't participate in many aspects of society after being released: they can't own firearms, they can't vote while on probation or parole, their travel is restricted, and in some cases they can't live in certain areas. You act as though having things taken away from you in response to breaking a law is an alien concept. This guy can earn a living. Baseball is not his only avenue toward a productive life. If he can't do this one thing as a result of the crime he admitted to, that's his penance. There are many other jobs being a convicted felon excludes you from as well.

I would feel a lot better if he had a trial and even if found guilty we would know all of the evidence or lack of which was used against him. I not a fan of plea guilty but i am really innocent..and by the way im pleaing to a sex crime and not tax evasion.. and using that 'fake plea' as a way to do an end run for public sympathy....like i said if everyone is ok with him playing if he did it..then fine...but dont fall for the plea guilty but really not public sympathy tour..

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by packs

Felons can't participate in many aspects of society after being released: they can't own firearms, they can't vote while on probation or parole, their travel is restricted, and in some cases they can't live in certain areas. You act as though having things taken away from you in response to breaking a law is an alien concept. This guy can earn a living. Baseball is not his only avenue toward a productive life. If he can't do this one thing as a result of the crime he admitted to, that's his penance. There are many other jobs being a convicted felon excludes you from as well. If his dream was to be a police officer instead of a baseball player he can say goodbye to that too.

Unless I'm mistaken, felons are allowed to play major league baseball.

Since baseball may not work out for him, what about acting in movies? Being a TV game show host? Professional wrestler? Big finance guy on Wall St? Can he become a famous internet personality? Please tell me what the line is on what he can and can't do, and please tell me who gets to choose that for him.

Is he only allowed to make a living at jobs most people aren't envious of? Because that's what I'm hearing. Nobody here has said anything along the lines of "That SOB better not try to be an elementary school teacher/camp counselor/teen coach." Because that makes a hell of a lot more sense, IMHO, than "He'd better not throw a baseball and get rich and famous."

[dgo71]

I don't know if there's an actual line in terms of what type of employment he can hold, but in regards to who gets to choose, it's the employer. In this case the 30 MLB teams, who are clearly saying they don't want to sign him because they don't want that construed as them supporting a heinous crime. That is well within their rights. Kudos to someone for actually taking a stand on character over talent IMO. People complain that athletes and celebrities are held to different standards and don't have to face consequences, but then when someone actually tries to hold an athlete accountable people complain that so-and-so did X and nothing happened so why punish poor Luke? It seems like contradicting philosophies.

I think a lot of people tend to ignore that the victim may never have closure, regardless of what punishment Heimlich is subjected to. That girl may never feel better about what happened. If he ended up in the World Series and was on every TV in the nation, how would that make her feel? Obviously I don't know with any certainty that it would negatively impact her rehabilitation, maybe she's come to terms with it and would be just fine, but I think that's something teams should consider as well. Not solely think about Luke Heimlich, but the situation as a whole.

I guess bottom line, teams have every right to employ or not employ someone if they don't want the baggage that comes with the person. And I don't think that's exclusive to baseball, that's just the reason it's being discussed by strangers on the internet. Because sports, and movies and celebrities are so important to us. Society always wants to discuss those in the public eye. I believe if Heimlich were hired by my place of employment there would be the same debates, they just wouldn't be on a forum such as this.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Unless I'm mistaken, felons are allowed to play major league baseball.

Since baseball may not work out for him, what about acting in movies? Being a TV game show host? Professional wrestler? Big finance guy on Wall St? Can he become a famous internet personality? Please tell me what the line is on what he can and can't do, and please tell me who gets to choose that for him.

Is he only allowed to make a living at jobs most people aren't envious of? Because that's what I'm hearing. Nobody here has said anything along the lines of "That SOB better not try to be an elementary school teacher/camp counselor/teen coach." Because that makes a hell of a lot more sense, IMHO, than "He'd better not throw a baseball and get rich and famous."

He can try to be a famous internet personality if he wants to be. If he can get the eyeballs, thats fine.

There are morals clauses in baseball and sports. People get suspended for large chunks of the season for just getting arrested. Why do they do that....why not just let them play? Prior history matters too. Michael vick eventually got a job but that was for dog fighting..not sex assault. How many games would you be suspended if you were playing and was convicted of being a child molester.?

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Unless I'm mistaken, felons are allowed to play major league baseball.

They absolutely are, however talent does not outweigh the bottom line. Teams will very much need to decide the impact on ticket and product sales by offended fans.

I have a pretty hard time thinking that his rookie impact would supplant the backlash and media criticism. If no one touched him in the draft or took a flyer on the fan kickback of even taking him in the 40th round (40TH!) and the only sniff comes not from the team but a foolhardy comment by Dayton Moore that was just subtly placed to be stupid enough to test the waters on that move.

There is not going to be movement here. None, nada, ziltch.

Not getting into a talent comparison discussion, but if teams are scared of touching players that anthem protest for fear of fan kickback because it just isn't worth the trouble...do we think this is?

Get a 9-5 or head to Latin America kid.

[packs]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Unless I'm mistaken, felons are allowed to play major league baseball.

Since baseball may not work out for him, what about acting in movies? Being a TV game show host? Professional wrestler? Big finance guy on Wall St? Can he become a famous internet personality? Please tell me what the line is on what he can and can't do, and please tell me who gets to choose that for him.

Is he only allowed to make a living at jobs most people aren't envious of? Because that's what I'm hearing. Nobody here has said anything along the lines of "That SOB better not try to be an elementary school teacher/camp counselor/teen coach." Because that makes a hell of a lot more sense, IMHO, than "He'd better not throw a baseball and get rich and famous."

I didn't mean to suggest that he can't play baseball because of what he did. My point was that if what he did keeps him from playing baseball that is something he would have to accept. But there are still plenty of other ways he can be a valued member of society.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Unless I'm mistaken, felons are allowed to play major league baseball.

Since baseball may not work out for him, what about acting in movies? Being a TV game show host? Professional wrestler? Big finance guy on Wall St? Can he become a famous internet personality? Please tell me what the line is on what he can and can't do, and please tell me who gets to choose that for him.

Is he only allowed to make a living at jobs most people aren't envious of? Because that's what I'm hearing. Nobody here has said anything along the lines of "That SOB better not try to be an elementary school teacher/camp counselor/teen coach." Because that makes a hell of a lot more sense, IMHO, than "He'd better not throw a baseball and get rich and famous."

Is someone with a sealed juvenile record considered a convicted felon? I was under the impression they are not.