NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-11-2018, 11:21 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,197
Default Help with this Ruth photo

I received an email from a person asking for help with this photo. Here is the email I received. I questioned it being Ruth but she is adamant. It resembles him but I haven't seen him have a slumping stance like that before. A follow up question was answered with the emblem on Ruth's jersey being a buffalo. Any help will be appreciated.

My name is Lisa R(....)I have an old photo of Babe Ruth that belonged to my grandmother. I was wondering if you might be able to tell me more about it. I've been looking through his photos for quite a long while and have not even found the farming team logo anywhere. The first black man playing ball is in the background as well as Bill summers and Charles Philippe. Interested to see if it might be worth something. My great grandmother used to cook for the Yankees on Sundays, not sure quiet how old it might be, and possibly might be an original,my grandmother was born in 1919 and I found it amongst her scrap book pages. If you might be able to help me or point me to someone who might, it would mean a lot to me.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1207161232.jpg (73.6 KB, 184 views)
File Type: jpg 1207161234b.jpg (77.7 KB, 183 views)
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-11-2018, 11:41 AM
Bicem's Avatar
Bicem Bicem is online now
Jeff 'Prize-ner'
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,051
Default

Babe Ruth?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-11-2018, 11:48 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicem View Post
Babe Ruth?
Yes, Babe Ruth?
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-11-2018, 11:52 AM
irv's Avatar
irv irv is offline
D@le Irv*n
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 6,662
Default

Imo, that guy looks nothing like Babe Ruth. Was there anyone else who was referred to as "Babe" back in the day?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-11-2018, 11:54 AM
Dewey's Avatar
Dewey Dewey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 744
Default

Doesn't look like Ruth to me. My hunch is if we can get a better look at the remainder of the slug that the last word might be the player's name and it doesn't look like Ruth either.

It reads something like (The) umpires Summers (and ...) talk over (old) times (with) Dasson (?).
__________________
42 Collection: Jackie Robinson, Branch Rickey and the People Who Shaped the Story https://www.flickr.com/photos/158992...57668696860149

Last edited by Dewey; 03-11-2018 at 11:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-11-2018, 11:57 AM
yanksfan09's Avatar
yanksfan09 yanksfan09 is offline
_Er!ck*L.ew1n_
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 1,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
Imo, that guy looks nothing like Babe Ruth. Was there anyone else who was referred to as "Babe" back in the day?
I agree, looks nothing like Ruth to me. I have no idea who it may be though.
__________________
Er1ck.L. ---D381 seeker http://www.flickr.com/photos/30236659@N04/sets/
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-11-2018, 12:31 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,651
Default

Just guessing...

"Umpires Bummer and ..... talk over old times with Dawson.."
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-11-2018, 01:09 PM
khkco4bls khkco4bls is offline
Kevin O'Gara
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: long island
Posts: 1,696
Default

That is not Babe Ruth
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-11-2018, 02:17 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,197
Default

Thanks guys. The person emailing has been watching this thread. It is their belief it still is. Here is a little better close up of that pic..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg babe.jpg (61.2 KB, 154 views)
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-11-2018, 02:22 PM
Forever Young's Avatar
Forever Young Forever Young is offline
Weingarten's Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Fargo, ND
Posts: 2,056
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Thanks guys. The person emailing has been watching this thread. It is their belief it still is. Here is a little better close up of that pic..
Hi person of interest. Unfortunately, the percentage that this is Babe Ruth is ZERO.
__________________
[I]"When you photograph people in colour you photograph their clothes. But when you photograph people in B&W, you photograph their souls."
~Ted Grant


Www.weingartensvintage.com

https://www.facebook.com/WeingartensVintage

http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...ben-weingarten

ALWAYS BUYING BABE RUTH RED SOX TYPE 1 PHOTOGRAPHS--->To add to my collection
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-11-2018, 02:29 PM
Bpm0014's Avatar
Bpm0014 Bpm0014 is offline
Brendan Mullen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,847
Default

100% not Babe Ruth. Could be his brother Bob Ruth tho...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-11-2018, 02:40 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,651
Default

Please post a better scan of the caption and I will research
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-11-2018, 02:52 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,899
Default

A young William Bendix...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-11-2018, 02:55 PM
Steve D's Avatar
Steve D Steve D is offline
5t3v3...D4.w50n
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,884
Default

The umpire on the left appears to be (as mentioned in the OP), Bill Summers, who was an American League umpire from 1933-1959, and had a card in 1955 Bowman:




He apparently umpired in the Eastern League from 1921-1932. The Buffalo Bisons were an Eastern League team.

Steve
__________________
Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox

Last edited by Steve D; 03-11-2018 at 03:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-11-2018, 03:05 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,087
Default

The only remote possibility I can find for the event in the photo. I didn't dig deep enough to see about Dawson or whatever that name actually is.

http://ampoleagle.com/babe-ruth-play...-p3671-124.htm

Joe Dawson vaguely resembles the player shown, but wasn't even in the minors until after these games.
Summers, of course was a minor league umpire at the time, but I didn't dig deep enough to see if he might have done a barnstorming game.
The game does seem to have been against a negro league team, so there's maybe something in the story.

Neat Photo, but not Ruth, even if he played in the game.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-11-2018, 03:07 PM
Sophiedog Sophiedog is offline
Cha.rles He.nry
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 362
Default

The only thing true about that story is she fed those 3
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-11-2018, 03:21 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,087
Default

Memories change over several years, it's really common. The main points usually stick, but the details drift. I've even tried to track down stuff I "knew" I was involved with in a certain year, only to find out I was a year off.

The closeup does look a lot more like him, but I haven't seen a pic of Ruth smiling like that, and even in pics from before 1920 he looks more wrinkly. I guess that can change or be hidden by the focus?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-11-2018, 03:29 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,651
Default

Absolutely not Babe's front teeth.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-11-2018, 03:35 PM
Butch7999's Avatar
Butch7999 Butch7999 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 980
Default

That's Babe Ruth, just like we're all three of the Alou Bothers.

Buffalo left the Eastern League after 1911, and while we won't yet swear to it, we're pretty sure
that buffalo head on the absolutely-not-Babe-Ruth-guy's jersey was never used as the logo for
any Buffalo team, Eastern League, Federal League, International League, nor American Association.

Possibly the Texas League Houston Buffaloes of 1907-58...
__________________
-- the three idiots at
Baseball Games
https://baseballgames.dreamhosters.com/
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/baseballgames/

Successful transactions with: bocabirdman, GrayGhost, jimivintage,
Oneofthree67, orioles93, quinnsryche, thecatspajamas, ValKehl

Last edited by Butch7999; 03-11-2018 at 03:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-11-2018, 04:31 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,197
Default

So ya'll are saying there's a chance? Here is a blow up of the caption, anyway.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ruth2.jpg (39.0 KB, 124 views)
__________________
Leon Luckey

Last edited by Leon; 03-11-2018 at 04:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-11-2018, 05:06 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,651
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
So ya'll are saying there's a chance? Here is a blow up of the caption, anyway.
That looks more like 'Deacon' than 'Dawson'
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-11-2018, 05:27 PM
Butch7999's Avatar
Butch7999 Butch7999 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 980
Default

It does say "Deacon," not that the fact that the absolutely-not-Babe-Ruth-guy's name is actually
typed out right there on the label is likely to change the lady's mind.
There are a few dozen guys with the surname Deacon and the nickname "Deacon" listed at
https://www.baseball-reference.com/s...acon&pid=&idx= , but few fit the era of the photo
and none have much if any resemblance to not-Babe-Ruth.
Also, given the monospace typewriter font, the second ump's name has to be three or at most four letters long,
so "Charles Philippe" has to be another misremembered item, assuming the label bears accurate information.
__________________
-- the three idiots at
Baseball Games
https://baseballgames.dreamhosters.com/
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/baseballgames/

Successful transactions with: bocabirdman, GrayGhost, jimivintage,
Oneofthree67, orioles93, quinnsryche, thecatspajamas, ValKehl
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:24 PM
nolemmings's Avatar
nolemmings nolemmings is offline
Todd Schultz
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,720
Default

Wow, all sorts of confusion here, except for the fact that it is clearly not Babe Ruth.

The player is "Deacon" according to the slug, but it is not Charles "Deacon" Phillippe, who was done pitching in 1911 at age 39 and out of baseball altogether not long thereafter--well before Summers would have been umpiring at really any level. It also looks nothing like Deacon Phillippe, so where the lady got Charles Phillippe is a mystery.

It is possibly a retired player brought back for an old timer's game, as the caption hints they're talking about "old" times. He could even be wearing the contemporary uniform of a Buffalo or Bison team, having outgrown the threads of his playing days. That still doesn't help us know which Deacon it is, however.

Finally, I'm confused as to how the lady's grandmother even came upon the picture as part of her familiarity with either Ruth or the Yankees. If she was born in 1919, she would have been 15 when Babe last played in New York and not real likely to have cooked for the team then.
__________________
If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other. - Ulysses S. Grant, military commander, 18th US President.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-12-2018, 01:00 AM
Butch7999's Avatar
Butch7999 Butch7999 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 980
Default

Todd, given the ambiguity of Lisa's grammar, maybe we're reading it wrong, sort of like a verbal version
of those novelty drawings that one stares at first seeing, say, an old crone's face but then after a minute
it's the back of a young lady's head, but...

Anyway, our take is that "Lisa R," who's assuming absolutely-not-Babe-Ruth is the Babe and at the center of the photo,
wrote "The first black man playing ball is in the background as well as Bill summers and Charles Philippe."
Then the label appears to state "Umpires Summers (and Xxx) talk over (old) times with Deacon."

So we figure she meant that she thinks Summers (who may possibly actually be, or might maybe not be)
umpire Bill Summers and "Charles Philippe" are the umps flanking definitely-not-Babe, whom the label seems to indicate
is some guy named or nicknamed "Deacon." It's maybe a total coincidence that a "Deacon" and a "Phillippe"
are both somehow connected to this photo (if only in Lisa's or her grandma's mind), but we're not really getting
a suggestion that Deacon Phillippe is alleged to be in any way involved -- except, of course, that Deacon Phillippe
was in fact Charles Louis "Deacon" Phillippe, so there is or was maybe some conflation of names in grandma's
memory.

At any rate, again, we're 99.9% certain that "Deacon"/not-Babe is not wearing a style of uniform ever worn
by any Buffalo Bison team. A slightly better than cursory search of unis worn by Texas League Houston Buffaloes
also failed to turn up any match to that buffalo-head logo, but more expert eyes might yet find something there...

ETA: we already have the uncomfortable feeling that, even if the photo experts, facial recognition experts, and
baseball history experts on this board combine to positively identify every guy in the photo and the venue and
date the picture was taken, within a couple of months the pic will be available on eBay as a photo of Babe Ruth
with Deacon Phillippe.
__________________
-- the three idiots at
Baseball Games
https://baseballgames.dreamhosters.com/
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/baseballgames/

Successful transactions with: bocabirdman, GrayGhost, jimivintage,
Oneofthree67, orioles93, quinnsryche, thecatspajamas, ValKehl

Last edited by Butch7999; 03-12-2018 at 01:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:29 AM
mr2686 mr2686 is offline
Mike Rich@rds0n
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ca
Posts: 3,169
Default

I'll chime in here and say it's definitely not Ruth. Almost every photo I've ever seen of Ruth "smiling" is more of a "grin" with his top lip almost covering his teeth. This photo is a flat out big smile. Also, it just doesn't look like him.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:49 AM
Sophiedog Sophiedog is offline
Cha.rles He.nry
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 362
Default

Definately not Babe Ruth
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:52 AM
Bpm0014's Avatar
Bpm0014 Bpm0014 is offline
Brendan Mullen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,847
Default

I can't believe people are even debating whether this is Ruth haha
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:34 AM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,651
Default

I must be on everyone's ignore list

Deacon's front two teeth are NOT Babe Ruth's front two teeth - his right front tooth is chipped whereas I believe Babe died with all enamel intact. You can also google 'Babe Ruth' 'smiling' and find pictures that show his front teeth, in case you don't have me on 'ignore' and just don't believe me. This is not a matter of 'he does not look like Babe' - this is definite forensic evidence.

I'm curious who the player actually is.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:47 AM
Dewey's Avatar
Dewey Dewey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bpm0014 View Post
I can't believe people are even debating whether this is Ruth haha
Not one person in this thread is debating anything of the sort. The debate rests solely in the mind of the someone who likely wants to sell it or keep a fond memory of her grandma.
__________________
42 Collection: Jackie Robinson, Branch Rickey and the People Who Shaped the Story https://www.flickr.com/photos/158992...57668696860149
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Photo guys-heads up- fake Babe Ruth Red Sox photo eBay Forever Young Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 4 10-18-2016 07:29 PM
Looking for a photo credit - Babe Ruth photo Greenmonster Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 0 02-17-2015 10:13 AM
Ty Cobb signed photo, Munson locker tag, Ruth photo negative, and more joshn Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 0 05-02-2011 11:56 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:21 AM.


ebay GSB