Looking for a 2nd example of the T206 Cobb (bat off shoulder) / Black LENOX card

[tedzan]

The Cobb (bat off shoulder) is a favorite subject for many Cobb collectors. It is found with over 20 different T-brand backs in the white-bordered series of Tobacco cards.

The T206 Cobb (bat off shoulder) is reportedly "confirmed" with a Black LENOX back. But, many long-time T206 collectors say they have not seen this front/back combo.
However, several Brown LENOX cards of this Cobb have been confirmed. Therefore, prompting this question.... Was a Brown LENOX Cobb originally mistaken for a Black
LENOX Cobb ? ?

So, with all the "T206 power" on this forum, can we resolve this mystery ?

OK guys, especially you Cobb collectors, please chime in with your inputs regarding this front/back combo. Also, feel free to show off your Cobb (bat off shoulder) cards
with any one of their various T-brand backs







TED Z
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[jcmtiger]

Not mine for long, at REA.

Joe

[sreader3]

Here's mine Ted.

I can't offer any help on the Cobb Lenox Black/Brown question. Art Martineau might shed some light. Or David Hall?

Scot

[unamuzd1]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Here's mine Ted.

I can't offer any help on the Cobb Lenox Black/Brown question. Art Martineau might shed some light. Or David Hall?

Scot

That is an absolutely stunning card, Scot.

[Jeffrompa]

That really has some *pop* .

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Here's mine Ted.

I can't offer any help on the Cobb Lenox Black/Brown question. Art Martineau might shed some light. Or David Hall?

Scot

What a great looking card!! It just pops....

[Tyler]

One of my favorites, for sure.

[tedzan]

Joe, Scot, and Tyler

Some good looking Cobb's.

Thanks for displaying them.


And, the black LENOX regarding this Cobb still continues to remain a mystery.


TED Z
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[sreader3]

Thanks guys -- registration and upper left corner aren't ideal but those are petty complaints.

[jmb]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Here's mine Ted.

I can't offer any help on the Cobb Lenox Black/Brown question. Art Martineau might shed some light. Or David Hall?

Scot

That PSA5 is W W !

[MVSNYC]

Scot- great Cobb...is it your scanner that makes it look photoshopped? the colors are very smooth, like it's been airbrushed.

[sreader3]

Hi Michael,

I used "Auto-Denoise" function on my scanning software.

I don't know if that counts as "photoshopped" in your book.

Scanner: Canon CanoScan 8800F

Scot

(Not hoping to start a conversation on scanning here . . . .)

[MVSNYC]

Hi Scot, was just merely asking if that was the way the card appeared in person, or rather a result of a scanner setting...seems like the latter. Again, stunning card, nonetheless.

ETA- no need to discuss beyond this post.

[sreader3]

Michael,

I have found that my scanner under default settings doesn't capture how my cards look "in-person" at all.

So I think your "in-person" v. "scanner settings" is a false dichotomy.

But whatever.

Scot

[CMIZ5290]

IMO, it does not exist....

[tedzan]

OK, do we conclude that this Cobb was never printed with the Black LENOX back....or, that there just isn't any interest here regarding this front/back combo ?

Honestly guys, I really don't understand why there have not been more responses from the T206 expertise on this forum regarding this subject ? ?

Let's give this thread one more try. A friendly bump with the Cobb (bat off shoulder) from my all-SOVEREIGN set.


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TED Z
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[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Michael,

I have found that my scanner under default settings doesn't capture how my cards look "in-person" at all.

So I think your "in-person" v. "scanner settings" is a false dichotomy.

But whatever.

Scot

good info Scot...

[Sean]

Sorry Ted, but I don't have one, and I've never seen one.

[mattsey9]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Thanks guys -- registration and upper left corner aren't ideal but those are petty complaints.

That's like being married to Raquel Welch and being mad that she can't cook!

Beautiful card!

[tedzan]

It has been a week since I posted this thread, and I'm surprised that there are so few responses. So, I'm beginning to suspect that the T206 Cobb (bat off shoulder) card
does NOT exist with a Black LENOX back. However, I am a persistent dude, therefore......

REWARD......I am offering $200 to any one on this forum who can produce a T206 Cobb (bat off shoulder) / Black LENOX card....or, verifiable proof thereof.


Meanwhile, please continue to show us your Cobb (bat off shoulder) cards with their various T-brand backs.

I'll continue here with this Cobb from my SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #42 (overprint) sub-set.



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TED Z
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[tedzan]

WOW !

Even with a serious REWARD of $200, there are no responses to this request. Yes, I (and at least 14 other long-time T206
collectors) do NOT believe this front / back combo was printed.

But, we are not certain of this. For we can never be sure what surprises The Monster still has in store for us.


Anyhow, feel free to post your Cobb (bat off shoulder) cards here, especially those with tougher backs.


Here is an OLD MILL from my T206 collection......

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TED Z
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[frankbmd]

Ted,

If I photographed myself standing in front of a mirror holding my cobb to expose both sides simultaneously, would that constitute verifiable proof or simply pornography.

IMAGE - deleted

[tedzan]

I've been trying to solve this Cobb/LENOX mystery for some time now.

Your humor here made me smile.....THANKS.


Frank....if in your numerous travels you are in Pennsylvania, you are very welcome to check-in to the "Hotel Zanidakis".

And,
you can check-out anytime you like. But, you can never leave



TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Error in posting.

[tedzan]

Here is my PIEDMONT Cobb from my all-PIEDMONT set. It is the 5th and the last of my Cobb's with this pose. So, this
may be my last bump of this thread. Perhaps, this time some one in Net54-land will chime in and solve this mystery.

I really do not understand why there have not been many more meaningful inputs to the question regarding this Cobb
with (or without) a Black LENOX back ?

I find this to be very strange....given the "T206 power" that resides in this forum ! ?



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T-Rex TED
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[rebelsart]

Posted again in this thread is the T206 Ty Cobb, bat off, with Black Lenox back.
Art

[egbeachley]

I don't see the prior post. But isn't that what Ted is looking for?

Note to Ted: I don't post on these threads since I don't have anything to add. But that doesn't mean I'm not following or interested. I'm sure there are others like me.

[rebelsart]

Eric:
I posted this image in another thread. Here is the link:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=216722

Art

[Sean]

Hey Art, are you still working on a Tigers master set?

[4815162342]

Bam! Time to pay up, Ted!

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

I don't see the prior post. But isn't that what Ted is looking for?

Note to Ted: I don't post on these threads since I don't have anything to add. But that doesn't mean I'm not following or interested. I'm sure there are others like me.

There are many of us in the same boat, I'm sure.

Yeah, looks like one has been posted.

[rebelsart]

Hi Sean,
Yes still working on the T206 Detroit players with different backs.

Art

[Pat R]

Thanks for posting the Cobb, Art.


For the record t206resource already had the black Lenox Cobb listed as
confirmed.

http://t206resource.com/Checklist.ht...ToDetails=True

[MW1]

Originally Posted by rebelsart

Posted again in this thread is the T206 Ty Cobb, bat off, with Black Lenox back.
Art

Looks re-backed to me.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by MW1

Looks re-backed to me.

I had the same thought...

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by MW1

Looks re-backed to me.

Originally Posted by Leon

I had the same thought...

Michael W. and Leon

The last time this Cobb/LENOX was seen was in 2003. This date is well within the timeframe (1999 - 2006) of when that "rash" of "re-backed" (I refer to them as RE-FRONTED,
since this best describes how those T206 fakes were actually implemented) appeared in the hobby.

And, as you well know, we were able to detect those RE-FRONTED fakes since the majority of them had impossible front/back combos. However, those fakes were so sharp that
even the Grading Company's were fooled.

I don't think that this Cobb/LENOX card fits into the RE-FRONTED category. Every one of those RE-FRONTED fakes were professionally produced to grade at least a VgEx to ExMt
condition.

Anyhow, feel free to explain why you think this card appears to be "re-backed".


TED Z
.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Michael W. and Leon

The last time this Cobb/LENOX was seen was in 2003.

Ted, I'm confused. I thought that the point of this thread was that you didn't know if the Cobb/Lenox existed. So what do you mean by "the last time (it) was seen was in 2003"?

[ullmandds]

He is implying the one seen in 2003 was fake.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Ted, I'm confused. I thought that the point of this thread was that you didn't know if the Cobb/Lenox existed. So what do you mean by "the last time (it) was seen was in 2003?

Sean

I shall try to un-confuse you. This is the 36th year that I have been collecting T206's; and, until Art posted this Cobb (bat off shoulder) with a black LENOX back....I had not seen one.

Art told me that this Cobb first appeared at least 15 years ago. And, that these f/b scans of this Cobb date back to 2003. That is the last time this Cobb has been seen.


TED Z
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[ullmandds]

Apparently I was confused as well

[The Nasty Nati]

...so did someone just win $200?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Sean

I shall try to un-confuse you. This is the 36th year that I have been collecting T206's; and, until Art posted this Cobb (bat off shoulder) with a black LENOX back....I had not seen one.

Art told me that this Cobb first appeared approx. 15 years ago. And, that these f/b scans of this Cobb date back to 2003. That is the last time this Cobb has been seen.


TED Z
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Oh, so you didn't mean that it was seen by you. Okay, I get it.

[Pat R]

You never know when a certain card might show up. Just before I joined this forum I confirmed the last unconfirmed Cycle 460 (Schaefer). I had owned
this card for 7 years and didn't even know it was unconfirmed. Around a year later another one showed up and now there are 5 that I know of (might be 4
one could be a crossover).

[RCMcKenzie]

To me, the card looks consistently worn. Beckett is as good as PSA and SGC and I think they would see a 2-part card. Plus, I think Art would know if it were 2 cards glued together. I think he won $200.. Nice card...Rob

[Pat R]

I agree with you Rob. I don't know how anyone could tell that a card is
re-backed from a low resolution scan.

[tedzan]

Hey guys,

Regarding the "Re-Fronted" T206 cards....the more than a dozen of them that were in circulation several years ago....were all graded (either by PSA or SGC).

So, you cannot depend on the Grading Company's to screen out these T206 fakes. The guy(s) who created these fakes were very professional paper restorers
and their workmanship was very high quality.

Fortunately, for us T206 dudes....this guy(s) were not knowledgeable of the legitimate T206 front/back combinations; therefore, we detected they were fakes.


Anyhow, I'm confident that the Cobb / LENOX card that Art posted here is legitimate; and, the REWARD has been mailed to Art.


TED Z
.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

To me, the card looks consistently worn. Beckett is as good as PSA and SGC and I think they would see a 2-part card. Plus, I think Art would know if it were 2 cards glued together. I think he won $200.. Nice card...Rob

I think BVG is as good as PSA or SGC too. However, they all make mistakes. I have seen a Red Cobb Drum in a BVG holder that was rebacked but graded. I don't think anyone said they know for sure that this card is rebacked. But to me, and at least one other fairly experienced person, it has the look.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Fortunately, for us T206 dudes....this guy(s) were not knowledgeable of the legitimate T206 front/back combinations; therefore, we detected they were fakes.





TED Z
.

Does this include the Mathewson/ Red Hindu card that turned out to be a re-backed fake?

[tedzan]

The Matty (portrait) / red HINDU was one of the first fakes (circa....2000) that alerted us to the numerous re-fronted T206's. If I recall correctly, SGC graded this fake.

Then dozens of these fakes followed and most were good enough that PSA and SGC graded them.

One of the last re-fronted fakes to be detected was back in 2012. A Green Cobb with a CYCLE 350. PSA graded this Cobb. Subsequently, it sold at an auction for $3000 !

Link to thread......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...cycle+350+back


TED Z
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[ullmandds]

so whomever made/commissioned these rebacked fakes seem to have been quite savvy to the "feasibility" of different front/back t206 combos, huh?