1910 E-UNC

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

I have never seen this card with the basepath before only the complete cut out version.


Very cool item..

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

doesn't a board member own the blue version w/o the diamond?

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Posted By: dan mckee

Wonkaticket owns the blue with no diamond that he got from me. I own an Evers with diamond in my type set. I have seen them over the years. They are a very tough candy box card.

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Posted By: Wesley

I believe Wonka has the blue E-unc Matty.



Were these cards cut from the cover of a notebook?

(Dan just answered my question as I was typing it. Have you seen a full candy box, Dan?)

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

other known players besides Matty and Evers?

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

I posted the wrong set here is the correct one.

Cobb
Collins
Evers
Mathewson
Wagner
Young

There are 6 total in the set and I have these 3 images.

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Posted By: dan mckee

No I haven't Wes. I have had mine sine the 1970s and someone told me it was from a Candy Box. Lew Lipset may know the brand. Dan.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Bobby, thank GOD there is no Johnson in this issue!

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Posted By: JimB

Cool cards. Are all the images identical to E98s?
JimB

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Posted By: Glen V

Years back Festberg(?) auctioned off two to these with the full square panels - not die cut down to the bases. I'll look for the catalog tonight, unless someone else happens to have one and can post a scan.

Here's the Evers (not mine):

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Posted By: George

The picture in the "Cy Young" card cannot be Cy Young, because Cy was right-handed. I think it might be Irving Young. Irving Young was sometimes called "Young Cy Young."

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Posted By: peter ullman

george...you're correct...a few e cards depict irv instead of cy...oops!

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Posted By: Jim VB

The picture is the same one used for Irv Young in the T206 set.

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Posted By: John

Dan & Wes are correct I own the blue version without the base path design, and now as of this evening I own the red with design. These are super tough to come by I was thrilled to see the Matty with design I think the 2 will make a nice pair.

I have to wonder on the Cobb, Dan have you or anyone else even seen the Cobb? I dont remember seeing that card ever Dan do you? Bobby have you seen it???

Also in sort of a six degrees of Barry Sloate twist. The original blue below was sold raw in a Sloate auction because Barry couldnt get any grading company to slab it. Dan managed to educate SGC and the below example was graded and given a numerical grade of 40. They even went as far as to call out without base path design. Now the red example I just bought from Toby was only given the AUTH grade and they didnt bother to call out on the grading slip With Base Path Design.LOL do these guys ever really learn. They have only ever seen two the red and the blue not real hard to make a note for future grading IMO.




P.S. Speaking of Barry just got home from overseas and my winnings are on my desk before Ive even had a chance to DHL the check. Barry you're a class act. Also since its Sarnos old card lets just not pay him and split the money over drinks he wont care Sarno's loaded! (just kidding Mike)

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

Congrats on the pickup John, makes a great compliment piece to your blue Matty.

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Posted By: James Gallo

Are the card parts both the same size.

Any clue how these were issued. I assume that the ones without the bases didn't just have them cut off?

Very neat cards.

James Gallo

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

Wondo you got him to drop $750 on the BIN, great deal and very nice pick up.

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Posted By: JimB

Jim VB,
That image is also used on the E98 "Cy Young". So far all of the images depicted are from the same source as the E98s.
JimB

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Posted By: barrysloate

I know John, we have Sarno over a barrel, don't we?



I'm glad the blue Matty got graded but I admit that was a sore point with me. It was actually my consignor who drove over to SGC's office with the card only to get turned down by them. So of course when I later saw it slabbed, I was pretty upset. Hey, that's life.

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Posted By: dstudeba

In my SCD 2000 big book they show an entire panel for the Matty. There are 4 baseballs on the corners as I recall. It is under 1910 UNC Candy or something like that. Not to be confused with the notebook cover 1910 UNC which I see SGC is now grading as a strip card.....

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Posted By: Joe D.

John -

Glad to see you grabbed the red one.

Now that you have both.... I don't mind saying -
I prefer the cut of the blue one to the red one.

I'm not going to call either one right or wrong.... just a preference.

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

I have to agree with Joe, I would cut the red one to match the blue if it were me.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I would leave the red one as is. That's blasphemy to cut it down.

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Posted By: jdrum

I wouldn't cut it, it looks great and certainly more unique.

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Posted By: leon

Forget about it losing half it's value if you cut it down, I agree it would be blasphemy. Personally I wouldn't consider buying one that is all the way cut down but I would consider (and did) buying the one with the base paths still on it......great card!!

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

I'd cut it down in a second, I just personally think it looks a lot nicer that way, but I like square cards. I'd also cut down a type 2 e107 that had odd or wavy borders, it's already hand cut, why not improve the appearance?

I also don't think it goes from being a $2000 card to a $1000 card by losing the odd looking diamond background. Still a rare card either way.

Again, just my opinion, Im sure a lot of people think it looks better with the diamond.

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Posted By: leon

With all due respect...the card would absolutely lose half it's value if it were cut down...trust me on this....you can also ask the buyer or the seller...If it's not 50% it's close.....but to each their own and when you own a card you can do what you want with it....regards

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Posted By: bigfish

I agree with Leon. More is better in this case......It makes a nice match to the Matty blue you have.

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

well, if that's truly the case ignore what I just said

how about this... if I didn't care about the value or knew I would never sell it... I would cut it down.

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

so where did you find the card Toby?

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Posted By: John

I can add some info to the debate at hand...I paid Dan 1k for the blue a few years back and just paid 2k for the red. So Leon would be dead on at the 50% mark...

However I can see where Jeff is coming from the clean cut of the Blue makes it look very nice. I can also see his point on the hand cut E107 Type 2 I cant tell you how many I've looked at only to get the urge to grab a razor and a straight edge...LOL

But I cant cut it I just paid to have the diamond shape now it looks I'm on the hunt for a full panel...LOL

Also why does SGC grade some hand cuts like mine above with a numerical grade and others AuthAny hand cut card should get AUTH. IMO

P.S. Edited to add I've done a few deals with Toby now even sold a few cards to Toby and all the transactions have been great. Thanks again Toby.

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

The only real way to find out values is to put both on ebay and see the results. Let me know when the auctions are up.

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Posted By: bigfish

Jon,

Always a pleasure buying/selling/trading with you. Very honest and fair to deal with. I appreciate that and feel free to return the card if you do not like it. I offer that to anyone who is unhappy with a deal.

The Matty came from a type collection. The man bought it in an antique store 10 years ago. Very tough to find and I hope you can find the full panel. That would be cool. I bet Dan is hiding one with the Drum his owes me!!!

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Posted By: Joe D.

to clarify: I wouldn't go as far as cutting the red.

But I do like the cut of the blue better.


To me - That just means, 100 years ago, the kid who cut his blue box of candy had better taste than the kid who cut his red box of candy.

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Posted By: John

Toby Im sure there will be no need to return it. The only reason would be if the cutting was uneven and you didnt cut it originally. LOL

Guess at that point Id have to track down the original scissor guy and have some choice words!

Lloyd theres a Mr. Wonkticket here to see you. Something about some cutting you did 98 yrs ago. He looks pretty upset and is demanding some sort of refund?

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Posted By: David Smith

Cutting one of these cards down now, (or any card this old, for that matter) in my opinion, is just plain stupid.



If the person who bought the candy waaaaaay back then didn't want the card to be cut down, they didn't cut it down. Why change things now?



Look, the white S74 silks were MEANT to have their paper backing removed and were supposed to be used for sewing purposes. Now, almost 100 years later, how many people are trying to reattach backs to silks which have had them removed? Why are they doing this? Because of MONEY!! Along the smae lines, how much are silks with needle holes in them worth compared to silks will no needle holes in them? Much less. The point is, collectors NOW are trying to get the best condition and most original silk (or card) that they can and are willing to pay BIG bucks to do it.



Another example would be the W555 cards and the original box that Mastro had for sale recently. How much are just the plain cards selling for? How much are the plain cards selling for which have larger borders? How much did the complete box sell for?



See a pattern developing? Items that are closer in condition to how they were originally produced are rarer, more collectible and often times more valuable. Like the guys on the Barrett Jackson auto auctions often say, a car can be restored 100 times but it is only original ONCE.



If the people who owned these items waaaaay back then wanted to take the knife to them, they would have. To cut them down NOW, just to make them look better, is idiotic to me.



David

Edited to add,

For another example, look what happened when someone butchered a Just So actress card so they could use the bottom advertising part to restore the Burkett card a few years ago. Look at how much it cost them to do it, the furor that erupted over it and then the price realized when the Frankencard sold. Was it REALLY worth the time, effort and destruction of ANOTHER card to restore the Burkett card? I didn't think so then and I don't think so now. But, obviously, what I thought really didn't matter to the person who owned the card.

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Posted By: leon

As the underbidder on the full W555 box I an tell you it went for a lot. It was me and one other guy from about 15k to 25k'ish....when I dropped out. I just couldn't pull the trigger to go higher.....

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Posted By: dan mckee

You grading fanatics are crossing the line now. These were meant to be cut with the diamond intact. I was there in 1910.

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Posted By: Joe D.

Dan -

I don't know.... if you were actually around then, you would know that the Boston NL is the toughest T200.

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Posted By: Anonymous

That is a 1913 issue Joe, I died in 1912!

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Posted By: Jerry

Did you go down with the Titanic.

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Posted By: Joe D.

"That is a 1913 issue Joe, I died in 1912!"

haha.
Well.... I'm glad you made it back.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Count me in the "Cutting is blasphemy" camp.
JimB

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Posted By: David Smith

Thanks for the info Leon. I knew the complete, uncut box went for MUCH more than any individual card cut from a box has ever gone for, I was just too lazy to look it up.

So, the uncut box just proves my point.

Back in the day, the INTENT for items like the cards shown above, the W555 box and the white S74 silks were for them to be used one way and the value derived from them came from that use.

Today, the value derived from these items comes from them NOT being used the way they were intended back then. Again, this is proven by the W555 box going for $25,000 dollars; a far greater multiple than any individual W555 card has ever sold for.

It is proven when white S74 silks with the paper backing still intact routinely sell for more than white S74 silks without the paper backing. Furthur proof is gained when it is shown sellers have reattached the paper backing to an S74 silk, most likely doing so in the hopes that it 1) wont be discovered and 2) the sales price will increase.

Lastly, it is proven when a 1910 Unc Mathewson without the diamond sells for half the price of one with the diamond. Based on that and the sales price of the complete W555 box, just think what a complete, uncut 1910 Unc candy box with Mathewson on it might sell for?

No, doing things NOW to cards and other items which were initially supposed to be done 90 to 100 years ago simply doesn't make sense. This is especially true if it is just because the new owner doesn't like the asthetic looks of the item.

If THAT is the case, then why not just pass on the item and get one that looks the way you want? Doing that would save the prospective new owner the time it takes to do the butcher work on the item and also the money it takes to buy the item.

To me, those who want to butcher the card just because they don't like the looks of the diamond around it is similiar to a wealthy art collector having the Mona Lisa stolen, adding it to his collection and then cutting out parts of the painting which he doesn't particularly care for.

Why take the time, effort and money to do that when there are alternative options?

Just my two cents,

David

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Posted By: brian p

Awhile back I had picked up a W515 strip with Babe Ruth real cheap which I really was tempted to cut out the nice Babe Ruth portion so that I could add it to my W515 individual card collection, but just couldn't do it...I eventually gave up and sold the thing. I know these strips were designed to be cut down as evidenced by the dashed lines between subjects, but if it had made it that long without someone slicing it up, it sure didn't make sense to me to be the greedy bastard to do it (of course the guy who bought it from me might have done so and now Babe rests in an airtight coffin...)

Brian

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Posted By: John

Just in thanks Toby, and FYI no knife dates will be set while in my hands..LOL

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

John, I'm glad you got the red one, too.