1921 Shotwell Babe Ruth on News

[Orioles1954]

Guy believes he bought a legit 1921 Shotwell Babe Ruth from Action Sportscards in Sparks, Nevada. I actually used to frequent that place. I bought some E94s from him for about $50 bucks a piece. However, this looks like an obvious fake.


https://abc30.com/sports/visalia-man...lions/5124901/

[Throttlesteer]

Fake for sure. It has light "artifacts" of the same flaws from the known PSA 1.5 example.

[GregZakwin]

Last week, this guy called the shop I just stopped working full-time at and said his grandmother left him this card when she passed. I'm guessing the guy he said examined it is my boss. I love that the story has already changed.

[Leon]

If the spots match up on the one known, to this one, that is a red flag. I didn't compare it but other than that it does look ok from the scan. The edges are awfully white though. I think some more Shotwells will come out in the future. But that is a total guess.

[packs]

I love that this guy has been "collecting since he was a kid" but has no idea PSA or SGC exists and instead takes what could be a "million dollar card" to an antiques store. That's what I'd do if I found a Picasso. I'd take it to the local guy.

[Orioles1954]

I found the first Shotwell (Jacobson) to be cataloged in late 2007. It was in a stack of other E121s and came from a midwestern collection. They are 100% identical to other E121s. The borders appear bleach white, a jagged cut (inconsistent with 1920s printing methods) and the foundation almost appears thick. The only saving grace to the guy's story is that he got it from Action Sportscards in Sparks. The owner is not the brightest bulb in the batch and I could easily see him selling a $1000 card for ten bucks.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I found the first Shotwell (Jacobson) to be cataloged in late 2007. It was in a stack of other E121s and came from a midwestern collection. They are 100% identical to other E121s. The borders appear bleach white, a jagged cut (inconsistent with 1920s printing methods) and the foundation almost appears thick. The only saving grace to the guy's story is that he got it from Action Sportscards in Sparks. The owner is not the brightest bulb in the batch and I could easily see him selling a $1000 card for ten bucks.

or a $60,000 card for $2?

correction...$2 million card for $2?????

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Leon

If the spots match up on the one known, to this one, that is a red flag. I didn't compare it but other than that it does look ok from the scan. The edges are awfully white though. I think some more Shotwells will come out in the future. But that is a total guess.

Most stuff should match on anything manufactured.


But whoever did it didn't remove the small tear at the right before printing it. So the tear is printed in.


Always nice when there's only one real one to compare to and that one has a clearly unique feature.

[Throttlesteer]

[Orioles1954]

Also notice the gray background on the original vs. the bleached out fake.

[Leon]

Nice comparison, thanks

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

[quinnsryche]

I was told it was graded authentic today? By who? Anyone have any further info?

[timzcardz]

Gotta have faith

[Throttlesteer]

Amazing how quiet the national news media is considering the coverage this received. Beckett should have posted a grade by now if this was genuine.

[Atari]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Also notice the gray background on the original vs. the bleached out fake.

Good eye! Here's a portion of a 1200dpi scan of our 1921 Babe Ruth Herpolsheimer backed card....



I wonder if the modern printer used for that "possible" fake shotwell made the background too muddy or something and they foolishly opted to just remove it entirely?

[Atari]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

Amazing how quiet the national news media is considering the coverage this received. Beckett should have posted a grade by now if this was genuine.

The good part of that $2 "million dollar card" story is it prompted my uncle to get me to learn more about the stack of Herpolsheimer's he was sitting on. Maybe that could be the bright-side follow-up story here?

[Leon]

Why are folks saying the Shotwell is a possible fake? It is a 100% fake. Period.

It is nothing other than fake. I guess some folks don't understand what a fingerprint is?

[Atari]

Originally Posted by Leon

Why are folks saying the Shotwell is a possible fake? It is a 100% fake. Period.

It is nothing other than fake. I guess some folks don't understand what a fingerprint is?

Just CYA / CMA in case the guy is marketing the story as much as possible before the grading/authenticating (or worse, never gets it authenticated because "reasons"). Time will tell.

But yeah I'm with you... appears that the tear was reprinted and the background...just removed?

Can't wait to see the results of the authenticating.

In general though, I would think artifacts of course can exist on the plates during printing and be consistent across more than a few impressions of the same cards before the press operator cleans things up. But that $2 shotwell does look fake to me IMO.

[Leon]

Of course printing plate issues happen across multiple cards. We frequently discuss it here. On the other hand, uniquely known Ruth cards don't have the same tears or creases, centering etc... You would likely win Powerball twice before that happens. All my 1/2 cent of thought and free of charge.

Originally Posted by Atari

Just CYA / CMA in case the guy is marketing the story as much as possible before the grading/authenticating (or worse, never gets it authenticated because "reasons"). Time will tell.

But yeah I'm with you... appears that the tear was reprinted and the background...just removed?

Can't wait to see the results of the authenticating.

In general though, I would think artifacts of course can exist on the plates during printing and be consistent across more than a few impressions of the same cards before the press operator cleans things up. But that $2 shotwell does look fake to me IMO.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by Leon

Why are folks saying the Shotwell is a possible fake? It is a 100% fake. Period.

It is nothing other than fake. I guess some folks don't understand what a fingerprint is?

Without a doubt. I think the "possible" piece is a bit tongue in cheek. A stumbled across this from the other Anson. Great stuff, as always.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...baseball-card/

[Santo10Fan]

A friend of mine brought this story to my attention, and my radar was up right away. Once I saw the local TV news report though it was all over. This guy is full of crap and basically seems to have made reporters appear just to get his kids on TV. That's old school. My silver lining take is, this type of publicity for the hobby is good publicity. Just like my friend, many people will take the story at face value and assume that those kind of rare cards are still floating around. I don't think many people will stick around to find out whether the card passed muster or not. That's for the best, because the attention will be on cool prewar cards, and it may get people interested without having to find out in the end the card is in fact exactly what was intended to be sold-a reprint.

[Throttlesteer]

This is getting painful. https://abc30.com/sports/visalia-man...-card/5158849/

[ctownboy]

Seems like this guy needs to get in touch with the two guys from Cincinnati that have their "T 206 Wagner"......

David

[shagrotn77]

My God, that article is poorly written.

[MW1]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Seems like this guy needs to get in touch with the two guys from Cincinnati that have their "T 206 Wagner"......

David

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Leon]

They are waiting to hear from the experts before they make their next move. I am just sitting here laughing thinking about their next move to the trash can.
Here is the other one of the 2 real Shotwell's known...

[callou2131]

This guy has to be related to Jason Mars, or they are putting lead in the water in sparks nevada.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Since any grading would be done at the 1 day service level, I wonder what they are waiting for.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Since any grading would be done at the 1 day service level, I wonder what they are waiting for.

Another 15 minutes of fame

[ctownboy]

I think somebody should offer to have the card graded on live TV. If it comes back as real then the guy gets $250 K, $300 K or whatever a reasonable price should be for the card. It it comes back as fake then the current owner must BURN the card.

That might put an end to some of these stories....

David

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

Another 15 minutes of fame

Or a last gasp hope that some rube millionaire comes out of the woodwork and buys this for a million dollars + like an utter jackass completly ignorant of what the deal is.

I guess it could happen. Many fools with money waiting to part with it.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I don't understand that new article at all. So he needed Lorenzo Ball to write a big check, but he only paid $2 for the card?

[Santo10Fan]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

This is getting painful. https://abc30.com/sports/visalia-man...-card/5158849/

Saying that "no one has proven this is a fake" is the reddest of red flags. I'm not sure who Ball is lecturing when he is trying to argue that a card featuring a baseball player isn't a baseball card, but "memorabilia". Yes, it was in fact made for a game. That game is baseball. If he was serious about authentication, he could get it done and slabbed right quick. If Ball ever shows up on this message board, I will be happy to tell him the exact steps to take to get this thing resolved. But not before he discloses exactly which auction houses he has spoken to.

[Leon]

To paraphrase, "I just hope it's a good deal". Brilliant strategy.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Or a last gasp hope that some rube millionaire comes out of the woodwork and buys this for a million dollars + like an utter jackass completly ignorant of what the deal is.

I guess it could happen. Many fools with money waiting to part with it.

[yanksfan09]

Lol...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/real-visa...034805485.html

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by yanksfan09

Lol...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/real-visa...034805485.html

Hmmm wonder which “auction place back east” told him the card will open at $1.5 million and sell for $4.5 million. Let’s assume it wasn’t REA because, well, you know. Who’s left?

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Hmmm wonder which “auction place back east” told him the card will open at $1.5 million and sell for $4.5 million. Let’s assume it wasn’t REA because, well, you know. Who’s left?

It needs to be on the wall at Yankee stadium next to Ruth’s jersey, or was it bad. Heck, I don’t remember
He says he doesn’t have to sell it because he has other high end cards to sell. (And oh my, they are high end!)
And I wonder what those plastic cases are around his other high end cards? Maybe that might lend a clue as to how to seek authentication? Maybe? Nope, let’s call an anthropology professor. Sounds about right. Check the pulp!
Great way to start the morning. Extremely entertaining!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Fresno State Anthropology professor John Pryor studies items such as Native American artifacts. Baseball cards are new to him but he analyzed the lab results of the Babe Ruth card.

There you go.

[calvindog]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but this story sounds eerily like the two guys with the fake Wagner. Didn’t they also get a lab to authenticate the age of the card instead of letting PSA or SGC have at it?

[packs]

Who was the expert who put a 4.5 million dollar tag on it?

[Yastrzemski Sports]

I thought he would have gone away by now. He’s really trying for 20 minutes here.

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but this story sounds eerily like the two guys with the fake Wagner. Didn’t they also get a lab to authenticate the age of the card instead of letting PSA or SGC have at it?

That's what it's reminded me of from the start. If the card was authentic there would be no need to seek out local news stations and "forensic analysists" that can help give credibility to it.

You would just send it in to PSA or SGC and then off to a major auction house.

But, we all know that. It is entertaining though, and he's certainly getting attention.

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by packs

Who was the expert who put a 4.5 million dollar tag on it?

Don't worry, the bidding will start around a meager 1.5 mil.

[pokerplyr80]

That same story keeps getting better:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/real-visa...034805485.html

Now it's confirmed to be authentic, not by psa or sgc, but by an anthropologist. Oh and now the value is up to $4.5 million. Not at all surprising given the trash passed off as news on that site. I really should stay off of it.

[barrysloate]

There are so many things wrong with this story that you don't know where to begin.

[JoeDfan]

That is crazy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Duplicate thread.

[mechanicalman]

I would hope GMA would get a crack at authenticating it.

[barrysloate]

We have two threads discussing this at the same time. Maybe they should be merged.

[pokerplyr80]

Sorry guys I didn't notice the old thread had been bumped.