How did this Paige RC end up in this holder?

[Snowman]

Has anyone else seen this card yet? This Satchel Paige RC on eBay is absolutely bonkers! There are multiple large creases on it (I count at least 4), the corners are super rounded, the back is covered in wax, and the edges look like they were cut with a pocket knife. How on earth did this make its way into an SGC 5 holder?

[parkplace33]

It was probably reslabbed from an older holder. Gift grade back in the day.

Anyone know why SGC, when it reslabs a card, gives it a different cert number. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

[JustinD]

I have an extraordinarily hard time believing that's not sheet cut (and poorly).

It also peaks my curiosity on the stain as I think it's remnant from a printer's dumpster and am intrigued as to what that is. Maybe picked up a wax stain in storage all those years sitting on an old wrapper or a bad storage method?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

It was probably reslabbed from an older holder. Gift grade back in the day.

Anyone know why SGC, when it reslabs a card, gives it a different cert number. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

It was graded in June 2023

They change the cert number because they changed how they assign certs and how many digits those certs have.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I have an extraordinarily hard time believing that's not sheet cut (and poorly).

It also peaks my curiosity on the stain as I think it's remnant from a printer's dumpster and am intrigued as to what that is. Maybe picked up a wax stain in storage all those years sitting on an old wrapper or a bad storage method?

The wax stain suggests that it was pack pulled. It just looked horribly trimmed to me. I don't think it's an old cert reholder either. There has never been a time in their history that they would have assigned a 4 to this card, let a lone a 5. This should be "AUTHENTIC - Evidence of Trimming". But even if they give it a numeric grade, it should be 2 at best. With that many creases, PSA is giving it a 1 or 1.5 (and that's ignoring the botched edges).

[bnorth]

It's actually part of a new program. They grade the card on its potential grade after some work to clean/improve it has happened. Sometimes they forget to add the (PG) Potential Grade qualifier. Just a clerical error, nothing to see here.

[brianp-beme]

How did this Paige RC end up in this holder?

I don't claim to be that smart, but I do believe a SGC worker placed the card between the two plastic sides of the holder before it was taken to the encapsulating machine at the SGC facility.


Brian (this is not my grandparent's graded 5 Paige card, that's for sure)

[raulus]

Just spitballing here...

I wonder if this is a case of the ole' switcheroo. Hard to know for sure, but maybe another card from the same order was graded 5, and this one was graded 2, but when they put them into the slabs, they mixed them up.

Had this happen a few months ago with PSA, where the PSA 3 card ended up in the PSA 1 slab, and vice-versa.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It's actually part of a new program. They grade the card on its potential grade after some work to clean/improve it has happened. Sometimes they forget to add the (PG) Potential Grade qualifier. Just a clerical error, nothing to see here.

Now that was funny!

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I have an extraordinarily hard time believing that's not sheet cut (and poorly).

It also peaks my curiosity on the stain as I think it's remnant from a printer's dumpster and am intrigued as to what that is. Maybe picked up a wax stain in storage all those years sitting on an old wrapper or a bad storage method?

Poorly cut for sure. But if sheet cut, it would not come out bat-eared like that, would it?

BTW, I believe it is "pique your interest". Although it is probably a mute point.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Johnny630]

Can this possibly be a non legit holder ? Frosted and swapped out flip something is wrong SGC wouldn’t grade this a 5 call Foreman

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Can this possibly be a non legit holder ? Frosted and swapped out flip something is wrong SGC wouldn’t grade this a 5 call Foreman

Those are the SGC scans from their website.

This is one of the most, if not the most, baffling over grades I've ever seen. It just doesn't make sense at all to me. There's just no way any grader misses the flaws on this card. And for a card this iconic and rare to get that treatment is just wild. I get how this stuff happens on lower end cards, but a 48 Leaf Paige RC? Yikes!

The creases aren't even the worst part. That cut is the most obvious hack job I've ever seen, shy of someone just completely cutting the entire borders off a card. It's definitely not sheet cut.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Those are the SGC scans from their website.

This is one of the most, if not the most, baffling over grades I've ever seen. It just doesn't make sense at all to me. There's just no way any grader misses the flaws on this card. And for a card this iconic and rare to get that treatment is just wild. I get how this stuff happens on lower end cards, but a 48 Leaf Paige RC? Yikes!

The creases aren't even the worst part. That cut is the most obvious hack job I've ever seen, shy of someone just completely cutting the entire borders off a card. It's definitely not sheet cut.

If that’s that case and I totally believe you SGC should be ashamed of this example…reach out and make it right. We all know they have people that read this that work there ect hopefully straightens this out.

[Smanzari]

Maybe the scan is just hitting the perfectly? I do buy/sell a fair share of cards and have been noticing an increase of cards appear to be "pressed" like a comic. The creases that are pressed out are still visible, but you really, really have to look closely and get it under the right light to catch it -- maybe that's what's happening here? Grader sees the card in hand and it appears clean, but then when it is scanned the issues are highlighted as the "right light" hit it

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Smanzari

Maybe the scan is just hitting the perfectly? I do buy/sell a fair share of cards and have been noticing an increase of cards appear to be "pressed" like a comic. The creases that are pressed out are still visible, but you really, really have to look closely and get it under the right light to catch it -- maybe that's what's happening here? Grader sees the card in hand and it appears clean, but then when it is scanned the issues are highlighted as the "right light" hit it

Respectfully, No they can’t be that bad of graders, nah SGC is better then that Scott and Dave are Sharp as Tact’s...Possibly the person who slabs the card put the wrong flip in the slab accidentally and someone may have a one that is or an authentic card but should really be a 5.

Could that be a possibility ?

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Respectfully, No they can’t be that bad of graders, nah SGC is better then that Scott and Dave are Sharp as Tact’s...Possibly the person who slabs the card put the wrong flip in the slab accidentally and someone may have a one that is or an authentic card but should really be a 5.



Could that be a possibility ?

Better guess than they missed four creases and a trim job, I think.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Bliggity]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Respectfully, No they can’t be that bad of graders, nah SGC is better then that Scott and Dave are Sharp as Tact’s...Possibly the person who slabs the card put the wrong flip in the slab accidentally and someone may have a one that is or an authentic card but should really be a 5.

Could that be a possibility ?

Yup, seems likely to be a mechanical error.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Better guess than they missed four creases and a trim job, I think.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Bliggity

Yup, seems likely to be a mechanical error.

How about the highest graded SGC T206 Wagner?


https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...hlight=Ireland

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Better guess than they missed four creases and a trim job, I think.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

The crazy thing is even if they missed the creases and the edges, they're still not giving it a 5 with those corners.

I think they either printed the wrong label by accident, or someone on the inside's bank account just got bigger.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Pat R

How about the highest graded SGC T206 Wagner?


https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...hlight=Ireland

Are you saying the Paige was a deliberate overgrade as the Wagner seems to have been?

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[bbcard1]

If you knew show subbed it, I'll bet you'd understand the grade.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by raulus

Just spitballing here...

I wonder if this is a case of the ole' switcheroo. Hard to know for sure, but maybe another card from the same order was graded 5, and this one was graded 2, but when they put them into the slabs, they mixed them up.

Had this happen a few months ago with PSA, where the PSA 3 card ended up in the PSA 1 slab, and vice-versa.

I had the same thing happen with 2 T205 Chase variations. They got the variations right but the grades backwards. Was very confusing to explain, but they did get it right eventually. So if a less than honest person got two back with the grades reversed and kept the ugly one in the 5 holder and then resubmitted the nice one after cracking it from the 2 holder, voila, for one extra grading fee they make thousands of extra dollars.

[Fred]

Bottom line - does anybody think that someone will pay the $$$ that go along with the same card correctly graded? Or is it believed that people will actually draw that line in the sand and this time say - NO WAY.

I see it and I see at most a "2" but believe if it ended up in an AUTH holder, I could easily understand why.

Do TPGs take pictures or scan cards for cards like this that have a certain $$ threshold? If so, it'd be interesting to see that picture from SGC.

How many graders review a card? I can't believe two people could come up with the same conclusion on that grade.

If SGC wanted, could they pull the cert and cancel it without the owners consent? What happens when a circumstance like that comes up?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Fred

Bottom line - does anybody think that someone will pay the $$$ that go along with the same card correctly graded? Or is it believed that people will actually draw that line in the sand and this time say - NO WAY.

Now if it was in a PSA holder…

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by raulus

Now if it was in a PSA holder…

It would be an 8 all day!

[gunboat82]

Give me some Kurt's and a tortillon, and I'll have those edges plumb in no time.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Fred

Do TPGs take pictures or scan cards for cards like this that have a certain $$ threshold? If so, it'd be interesting to see that picture from SGC.

Fred - if I understood the above commentary correctly, the above scans are from SGC.

I'm not sure what SGC's policy is for scanning cards. My understanding is that PSA scans just about everything (maybe even everything) these days. There was a window of time when PSA only scanned cards that were submitted above a certain service level, but if I remember correctly, they've lowered that standard to start scanning everything.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Poorly cut for sure. But if sheet cut, it would not come out bat-eared like that, would it?

BTW, I believe it is "pique your interest". Although it is probably a mute point.

Lol, yes I "de-frenched" the saying as it always has vexed my logic for as long as I can remember. In my my early college French the etymology has piqued as a poke or annoyance, It never flows right in my head to be annoyed to the point of interest. To me, and I know it's wrong and will fall on my sword, it in Americanized English does "peak" it in my mind. Wayyyy to much info on a what is essentially a personal preference (and wrong to any English teacher),

As for bat ears, my thought is that would be pretending a more advanced attempt to deceived when these were never meant too. I collect 1948 Bowman Basketball grayback errors, and early Bowman errors in general. These are all dumpster scrap and in lore from locals near the printer would be handed out from the back door to neighborhood kids. Uncut Bowman is, in my mind, some of the most common scrap in vintage. while many sheets survived, the majority were trimmed with scissors by kids and absolutely look it. Many of them have been retrimmed to clean it up a bit but finding a hack job, especially with the 48 basketball is commonplace.

I am not saying that a poor trim is not a possibility. The card exhibits some signs of kid cuts with the width of the card at the top and that the trim does absolutely nothing to have improved the card. Why trim to make it worse, or are you trimming to make it an individual card?. I agree the wax causes doubt in my mind and why I pointed it as the confusing factor.

I am not sure if Leaf was printed in the same facility, but I have seen a good quantity of scrap as well for that series. There have been several uncut 48 leaf boxing and baseball sheets that have popped up that the kids scissors didn't get to.

It's not a big whoop, I just posted my thoughts...people can take or leave it, lol.

[Smarti5051]

Not sure who owns this card, but if the comments above trashing every aspect of the card make you so sad you are about to throw it away, please let me know where you live. I would happily dig through the trash for it and add it to my sad collection. I can't speak to the grade, but just looking at the card, it looks good enough for me to enjoy it.

[tjisonline]

the card is currently up for sale. i would also take this card in a heart beat but the seller is asking $95,599.00 or Best Offer.

while believe in capitalism, something seems off w/ the card in that sgc 5 holder. plus for nearly $100k asking, one would expect far better pics in the listing. again, something seems off.

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

Not sure who owns this card, but if the comments above trashing every aspect of the card make you so sad you are about to throw it away, please let me know where you live. I would happily dig through the trash for it and add it to my sad collection. I can't speak to the grade, but just looking at the card, it looks good enough for me to enjoy it.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by tjisonline

the card is currently up for sale. i would also take this card in a heart beat but the seller is asking $95,599.00 or Best Offer.

while believe in capitalism, something seems off w/ the card in that sgc 5 holder. plus for nearly $100k asking, one would expect far better pics in the listing. again, something seems off.

Practically giving it away!

[samosa4u]

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Respectfully, No they can’t be that bad of graders, nah SGC is better then that Scott and Dave are Sharp as Tact’s...Possibly the person who slabs the card put the wrong flip in the slab accidentally and someone may have a one that is or an authentic card but should really be a 5.

Could that be a possibility ?

Could be a simple labeling switch mistake. I just had these two cards graded by them and could see where if they were grading multiple identical cards, labels could be switched. I sent a couple of T218’s one time that they put the wrong labels on the wrong golfers. Had to send that back to get it corrected.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Those are the SGC scans from their website.

This is one of the most, if not the most, baffling over grades I've ever seen. It just doesn't make sense at all to me. There's just no way any grader misses the flaws on this card. And for a card this iconic and rare to get that treatment is just wild. I get how this stuff happens on lower end cards, but a 48 Leaf Paige RC? Yikes!

The creases aren't even the worst part. That cut is the most obvious hack job I've ever seen, shy of someone just completely cutting the entire borders off a card. It's definitely not sheet cut.

I've seen worse in terms of altered cards in numbered slabs. The perforated CJ Connie Mack and the heavily recolored 1933 Goudy Ruth were both given number grades by PSA, and both were far worse off than this.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I've seen worse in terms of altered cards in numbered slabs. The perforated CJ Connie Mack and the heavily recolored 1933 Goudy Ruth were both given number grades by PSA, and both were far worse off than this.

Right, but those number grades were at least close to what their condition would have otherwise been, had they not been altered. I think that's what I mean here when I say the most baffling overgrade I've seen. It should have been caught as trimmed, but setting that aside, this card is a 2 at most. It's just wild to see it sitting in a 5 holder.

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Respectfully, No they can’t be that bad of graders, nah SGC is better then that Scott and Dave are Sharp as Tact’s...Possibly the person who slabs the card put the wrong flip in the slab accidentally and someone may have a one that is or an authentic card but should really be a 5.

Could that be a possibility ?

This seems like the simplest, and most likely answer. Unfortunately SGC doesn't use up their cert numbers sequentially, so it's not as easy as checking the #s on either side of this one.

[jsfriedm]

How about this grade?: https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=169704

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

How about this grade?: https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=169704

That's pretty consistent with how PSA has graded these historically. It's at least a 3 today, and could still 4 if you had a kind grader.

[Leon]

and that is why one 4 is not the same as another 4...and when I hear "what is the comp", I cringe...

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

How about this grade?: https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=169704