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  #11  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:37 PM
bigfish bigfish is offline
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Default tough hofer

Deacon White
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  #12  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:38 PM
Misunderestimated Misunderestimated is offline
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I've been at this for (too) many years and I have found the hardest to be:
Negro Leaguers, Pioneers/early stars and certain non-players. Some do not even have cards issued from during their careers.

Here is a list of some of the most difficult from each category.

Negro Leaguers generally require international Cuban and sometimes Puerto Rican or Mexican issue.
There are people who know much much more than I do about this and I hope they will share there wisdom. Here is my gloss on the harder ones that are out there: Pete Hill (only a few exist), Andy Cooper, Biz Mackey (basically one issue), Oscar Charleston (not nearly as rare but very very expensive), Jose Mendez, Christobal Torriente and "Pop" Lloyd
These are generally thousands of dollars in any condition and they are not likely to be found in "high grade."

Significantly, many of the great Negro League players do not have cards issued in any "sets" during their careers and these include Josh Gibson. There was a card issued soon after he died in 1950-51 by Toleteros (sp?) that has been celebrated.

Pioneers/ Pre-1887 greats - A.G. Spaulding, George Wright, and Candy Cummings are all very hard to find and the best bets are CDVs and "team cards." These are also thousands of dollars. There is a one-of-a-kind G&B card from the later 1880's of Spalding from his years as an Exec./Owner.

After 1887 individuals cards exist for just about everyone who played in the majors. The earlier players are harder to find -- such as Bid McPhee and Deacon White.

FYI : Jesse Burkett generally requires a bit of a cheat to get a career card -- the T204 was issued after he finished in the majors and for whatever reason he is not in the Mayos or the Fan Craze sets. There are some very rare premiums of him and a one-of-a-kind "Just So" card.

Of the last group -- umpires execs etc.. Some of the most difficult that were issued during their careers are:
Barney Dreyfuss long-time owner of the Pirates who shows up in a Tip Top Bread set from 1910 commemorating his team's success the year before.
AL Founder Ban Johnson - He's in the Fan Craze set but that's about it.
Umpire Billy Evans - only in the 1922 Exhibit set;
Umpire Bill McGowan -- in a card set issued by his umpire school in the 1949-50 and I think (not sure) something called the Safe-T set.
Manager Joe McCarthy is not particularly easy to locate. For whatever reason he was not given his own card in any of the major sets during his illustrious career. Strictly speaking the only card (as opposed to stamp or button or coin) of McCarthy card is in the 1936 World Wide Gum Card set.
Umpire Hank O'Day has a card as a player in the Old Judge set (before he became an umpire)... He was a lousy player.
Manager Frank Selee has a one-of-a-kind card from a game set issued in 1904: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=75560...
===
Also, I learned that there are cards of recent HOF inductee John Schuerholz from his tenure as the Royals GM (team issues "photo-cards" from the early 1980's) before he went on to greater fame as the GM of the Braves.. If any one has one I could use one.

Last edited by Misunderestimated; 06-10-2018 at 07:46 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:39 PM
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ruth_rookie ruth_rookie is offline
Jason “the bambino” Babin
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Default Shoeless Joe

Finding a mid-grade Joe Jackson has proven to be a daunting task for me. Heck, he’s even difficult to find in low grade. Although he’s not in the Hall, he arguably should be (from a statistical standpoint anyway). But that’s opening up a whole other can of worms.

Last edited by ruth_rookie; 06-10-2018 at 12:42 PM.
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  #14  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:42 PM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
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Originally Posted by ruth_rookie View Post
Finding a mid-grade Joe Jackson has proven to be a daunting task for me. Heck, he’s even difficult to find in low grade. Although he’s not in the Hall, he arguably should be.
Maybe Joe Jackson will be pardoned, and then elected to the Hall.
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  #15  
Old 06-10-2018, 01:24 PM
judsonhamlin judsonhamlin is online now
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Doesn't McCarthy pop up in T5 and one of the Colgans/Tin Top/Red Border sets?
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  #16  
Old 06-10-2018, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by brianp-beme View Post
Here is what I posted on my thoughts (with narrower focus) on this last year. It is from this thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=219783&page=2


I will approach this question from a narrowed perspective, because it is within the following guidelines that I have always collected, which is based upon availability of pre-War2 cards. (20th century Pre-1942 cards, for crying out loud).

When I set my self-imposed guidelines, I eliminated all players whose careers were mostly in the 19th century, due to expense. I also eliminated almost all of the executives, broadcasters, etc. due to the lack of availability. Also due to the lack of availability I removed all of the Negro League players. What remains are 20th century HOF players whose careers were mostly before World War 2. The following are the ones I always considered tougher to track down Pre-WW2 cards due to the player being in fewer popular sets during their playing/managing careers.

Big Names:

Honus Wagner - in a decent amount of sets, but less frequently seen because of his absence in almost all the tobacco issues

Eddie Plank - not in that many sets, and incredibly tough in the most popular (T206)

Lou Gehrig - in some more commonly issued earlier 1930's sets, but still not as many as you would think based upon his status


Others:

Willie Keeler: 1910 era cards at the end of his career

Jimmy Collins: in fewer sets than Keeler

Jake Beckley: thankfully in T206 set, otherwise not much available

Elmer Flick: in fewer sets than Keeler

Hugh Duffy: at end of playing career during 1910 era

Joe Kelley: at end of playing career

George Davis: not in many sets

Joe McGinnity: at end of career in 1910

Addie Joss: untimely death in 1911

Jack Chesbro: thankfully in T206 set, otherwise not much available

Gabby Hartnett: in E120, and 1933 Goudey, otherwise surprisingly not in many of the prominent 30's issues (other Goudey, Diamond Star, Play Ball)

Ross Youngs: short career, mostly featured in strip sets

Casey Stengel: not in many of the common sets

Wilbert Robinson: surprisingly in MORE sets than expected

Stan Coveleskie: career falls in the 1917-1932 'dead zone' card era

Bill Southworth: seems to be overlooked in most sets

Charles Comiskey: executive, but featured in prominent sets like Cracker Jack and Sporting News

Branch Rickey: fortunately featured in Cracker Jacks and V100 sets

Bill McKechnie: in limited sets

Ducky Medwick: missing from early 30's sets, and most Goudey issues

Luke Appling: mostly mid to late 30's sets

Billy Herman: besides 33 Goudey, not in many sets

Fred Lindstrom: overlooked in most 30's sets

Al Lopez: not in many sets

Dizzy Dean: short career cut short his card appearances
To me the hardest ones were George Sisler and Harry Heilmann. They weren't in the t sets or cracker jacks and missed 33 Goudey. Also Grover Alexander even though he was in CJ, not many other sets. Also, I agree with Ducky Medwick, not in 33-34 Goudey, but in Diamond Stars and 38 Goudey.

I wouldn't call anyone in t206 or 33 Goudey or Topps or Bowman sets had to get. They may have few cards, but they are plentiful. My list doesn't include 19th century players, negro league's players who didn't get a Topps or Bowman or some nonplayer Hofers.
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  #17  
Old 06-10-2018, 02:18 PM
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triwak triwak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misunderestimated View Post
I've been at this for (too) many years and I have found the hardest to be:
Negro Leaguers, Pioneers/early stars and certain non-players. Some do not even have cards issued from during their careers.

Here is a list of some of the most difficult from each category.

Negro Leaguers generally require international Cuban and sometimes Puerto Rican or Mexican issue.
There are people who know much much more than I do about this and I hope they will share there wisdom. Here is my gloss on the harder ones that are out there: Pete Hill (only a few exist), Andy Cooper, Biz Mackey (basically one issue), Oscar Charleston (not nearly as rare but very very expensive), Jose Mendez, Christobal Torriente and "Pop" Lloyd
These are generally thousands of dollars in any condition and they are not likely to be found in "high grade."

Significantly, many of the great Negro League players do not have cards issued in any "sets" during their careers and these include Josh Gibson. There was a card issued soon after he died in 1950-51 by Toleteros (sp?) that has been celebrated.

Pioneers/ Pre-1887 greats - A.G. Spaulding, George Wright, and Candy Cummings are all very hard to find and the best bets are "team cards." These are also thousands of dollars.

After 1887 individuals cards exist for just about everyone who played in the majors. The earlier players are harder to find -- such as Bid McPhee and Deacon White.

FYI : Jesse Burkett generally requires a bit of a cheat to get a career card -- the T204 was issued after he finished in the majors and for whatever reason he is not in the Mayos or the Fan Craze sets. There are some very rare premiums of him and a one-of-a-kind "Just So" card.

Of the last group -- umpires execs etc.. Some of the most difficult that were issued during their careers are:
Barney Dreyfuss long-time owner of the Pirates who shows up in a set from Tip Top Bread set from 1910 commemorating his team's success the year before.
AL Founder Ban Johnson - He's in the Fan Craze set but that's about it.
Umpire Billy Evans - only in the 1922 Exhibit set;
Umpire Bill McGowan -- in a card set issued by his umpire school in the 1949-50 and I think (not sure) something called the Safe-T set.
Manager Joe McCarthy is not particularly easy to locate. For whatever reason he was not given his own card in any of the major sets during his illustrious career. Strictly speaking the only card (as opposed to stamp or button or coin) of McCarthy card is in the 1936 World Wide Gum Card set.
Umpire Hank O'Day has a card as a player in the Old Judge set (before he became an umpire)... He was a lousy player.
Manager Frank Selee has a one-of-a-kind card from a game set issued in 1904: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=75560...
===
Also, I learned that there are cards of recent HOF inductee John Schuerholz from his tenure as the Royals GM (team issues "photo-cards" from the early 1980's) before he went on to greater fame as the GM of the Braves.. If any one has one I could use one.
+ 1 This is a pretty accurate analysis. Definitely Negro Leaguers and executives.

Last edited by triwak; 06-10-2018 at 02:18 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-10-2018, 02:37 PM
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mechanicalman mechanicalman is offline
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Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
What about 20th century? Would it be the guys who played between 15 Cracker Jack and 33 Goudey. Most 19th century Hofers are going to be tough due to how few cards were produced prior to t206.
I’m not sure how rare they are but I’ve found it difficult to find cards I like of dudes who played in this era like Sisler or Heilmann.
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  #19  
Old 06-10-2018, 02:45 PM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
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Originally Posted by mechanicalman View Post
I’m not sure how rare they are but I’ve found it difficult to find cards I like of dudes who played in this era like Sisler or Heilmann.
Both of them have very nice Exhibit cards IMO, I forget which ones, maybe the 22 Eastern Exhibits? I dislike for the most part the small black and white issues with the full body poses and only a teeny tiny head. Which describes several Alexander cards.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-10-2018 at 02:46 PM.
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  #20  
Old 06-10-2018, 02:54 PM
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brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Both of them have very nice Exhibit cards IMO, I forget which ones, maybe the 22 Eastern Exhibits? I dislike for the most part the small black and white issues with the full body poses and only a teeny tiny head. Which describes several Alexander cards.
If you want a close up of his unhappy face, there is always his 1930 W517 card.

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