NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 06-09-2018, 09:04 PM
Vintageclout Vintageclout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 290
Default Best Season

Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Gibson was 22-9 with 13 shutouts and .853 WHIP. Pedro only started 29 games and pitched less than 220 innings. Johnson pitched 346 innings and won 7 more games than Pedro pitched. Pedro isn't in the discussion with guys that pitched 50%+ more innings.
I believe Gibson had a stretch in 1968 whete he gave up only 2 earned runs in 98 innings. That’s absolutely unfathomable!!!!

Last edited by Vintageclout; 06-09-2018 at 09:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-09-2018, 09:06 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,252
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintageclout View Post
I believe Gibson had a stretch in 1968 whete he gave up only 2 earned runs in 98 innings. That’s absolutely unfathomable!!!!
And knowing how Gibson was, he was probably pissed off that he allowed those.
__________________
Buy high, sell low.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-09-2018, 09:07 PM
kcohen's Avatar
kcohen kcohen is offline
Ke.n K0hen
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 705
Default

Ron Guidry 1978 in the discussion
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-09-2018, 09:18 PM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,201
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintageclout View Post
I believe Gibson had a stretch in 1968 whete he gave up only 2 earned runs in 98 innings. That’s absolutely unfathomable!!!!
Those 2 runs were scored on a wild pitch that was catchable and a bloop double. In addition to 13 shutouts, Gibson pitched 11 games where he allowed only 1 run including 2 where the run was unearned.

For the live ball era, I would take Koufax's 1965 season when you factor in his World Series MVP performance.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-09-2018, 09:27 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,252
Default

The Big Unit's 372 K season.
__________________
Buy high, sell low.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-09-2018, 09:46 PM
earlywynnfan's Avatar
earlywynnfan earlywynnfan is offline
Ke.n Su.lik
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,426
Default

How has nobody brought up Lefty Grove in 1931?? The absolute height of the hitters' era, he goes 31-4!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-09-2018, 09:53 PM
Vintageclout Vintageclout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 290
Default Best Season Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Those 2 runs were scored on a wild pitch that was catchable and a bloop double. In addition to 13 shutouts, Gibson pitched 11 games where he allowed only 1 run including 2 where the run was unearned.

For the live ball era, I would take Koufax's 1965 season when you factor in his World Series MVP performance.
Here is my issue with Post-1990 great starting pitchers. They seldom finished what they started. Not to say that’s their fault because the game has changed to a relief pitcher fest. Consider as great as Pedro’s 1999 & 2000 seasons were, he only completed 12 games out of 58 starts, or a meager 21% of his games. Make no mistake about it, the TOUGHEST outs in baseball are the final 3-6 outs, and starting pitchers simply don’t have to get them anymore. Those are the outs that cause the most stress on the arm (in any tight ball game), and at this juncture, starters can simply gas up for 6/7 innings and give the ball up to the next guy. In 1968, Gibson completed 28 of his 34 starts and as you stated, gave up 1 or 0 runs in 24 of those 34 starts. You can adjust Pedro’s stats all you want with sabermettics, but even sabermetrics doesn’t measure the superiority of a pitcher that gets all 27 outs. That’s a MAJOR piece of analysis that Bill Jsmes has left on the table. Personally, due to his fragile size, I simply don’t think Pedro could have handled the innings workload of a Gibson, Seaver, Carlton, etc. just my two cents.

With that in mind and as a quick analogy, look how critical a great relief pitcher has been weighted over the past 30+ years. If a legendary pitcher such as Mariano Rivera was so valuable to a team’s success (which he was), then imagine how great pre-1980 HOF pitchers truly were because in reality and by today’s standards, they were literally “saving their own wins”! There is NO substitute for the value of a starting pitcher who completes what he starts which is why comparing starters from the past 30+ years versus their pre-1990 (give or take) peers is becoming a near-imposdible comparison.

Last edited by Vintageclout; 06-09-2018 at 09:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-09-2018, 10:02 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,252
Default

The game has changed. Judgments have been made that for the most part a team is better off using the bullpen even when the starter is going strong. It's not the pitchers' fault or a case of they don't make em like they used to. If the great pitchers of today had lived earlier, they would have been pitching complete games. Maybe someone like Pedro who was unusually small for a flamethrower is an exception, but in general there is no reason at all to suppose pitchers in general were better back then.
__________________
Buy high, sell low.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-09-2018 at 10:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-09-2018, 10:09 PM
Vintageclout Vintageclout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 290
Default Great Pitcher Stats

Piggybacking off of my last post, Pedro Martinez pitched 18 years and averaged only 157+ innings pitched per season. During his sensational 5-year stretch he had one 241 inning season (his most ever), one 230 inning year and 3 seasons with less than 220 innings. Minimal workload for sure for a team’s ace in the A.L. where there is no pinch hitting for a pitcher. Once again, Pedro was a truly spectacular pitcher but I’ll take the “other” spectacular pitcher who either gets me thru 8 innings or completes what he starts. A MAJOR difference between the two.

Last edited by Vintageclout; 06-09-2018 at 10:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-09-2018, 10:13 PM
SullyV SullyV is offline
Rob Sullivan
member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 14
Default 1995

I believe that the best modern day season is Greg Maddux's 1995 season. 19-2, 1.63 ERA, 10CG and 3 shutouts, only 23 walks and 1 wild pitch. Pedro Martinez can't hold a candle to that.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:21 AM.


ebay GSB