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#101
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That is indeed what it says.
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#102
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Wait a minute, are you calling them liars? You know Cabron is bad word in Cuba right? You don't want to known as Cabron.
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#103
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Ha!
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#104
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very interesting discussion about these cards. I am not an expert on Cuban cards, just a modest collector. I don't think I would be confident in paying for these. I bet someone who read this thread is bidding on them though.
Does anyone think the availability of Cuban cards will increase once Castro is long gone ? I just wonder sometimes what the market would be like if Cubans had internet access and more freedom |
#105
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There's only one bid for all 4 individual cards and the amateur lot and they happen to be the same guy.
Also the bids were placed two days ago, one day before this thread exploded on here. I'd be very surprised if someone who has read this thread will end up actually placing a bid on any of the cards, there's just too many holes in the story. Steve |
#106
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Not sure Steve.... I am on the fence... the other ones that I have seen SEEM and FEEL real .... the same reflective metallic look of the Aguilitas and Nacionales, which seems to be a stretch to replicate in the modern day world of "card fraud"...
They could be a homage to Almendares players of a few years before.... but.... The whole "COULD" and "MAYBE" thing will certainly compress things, but what if they are real? Will be interesting to see what happens in these auctions at the very least.... Al |
#107
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Quote:
http://filmphotographyproject.com/co...gelatin-prints That said, I am not rendering an opinion on these cards as I don't believe I have ever even touched a Cuban card.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
#108
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You should bid on them Al if you think they might be good, you're the only one on here that has actually seen them in person so that can only help you in your decision.
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#109
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Al
Remember the Nacionales cards I almost acquired a few years ago that were determined by experts to be fakes? So why did Beckett grade them at the National a few years ago if they weren't real, other than they have no experience in handling Cubans, especially 20's issues. There was also a fake Cooper and Oms in that group as well that were graded. |
#110
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Quote:
__________________
Leon Luckey |
#111
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It's a fake Leon. The owner of the cards knew they were fake but still decided to take a chance, brought them to the National in Baltimore and had them graded by the one major grading company that has had no experience in grading Cubans.
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#112
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Then the guy had the balls to come back to me and asked me for more money because he said with them being graded it only adds to the value of the cards.
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#113
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Quote:
-Ryan |
#114
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Thanks for backing my story up my brother, I appreciate it!
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#115
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Quote:
__________________
Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 03-08-2014 at 11:02 AM. |
#116
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Very human. Very fake. They blew it. No "if." I think you know me well enough, Leon, to know that I would not speak with such conviction unless I was absolutely certain. -Ryan |
#117
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End the stupid embargo now! I can go to a store and buy a shirt made in Vietnam and we lost a f****n war to them!
Maybe Net54 can do what 60 years of American government couldn't... Last edited by Scocs; 03-08-2014 at 11:19 AM. |
#118
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Anyone who has touched hundreds of these cards know that the Mendez is fake. Zero doubt. I have never seen a fake Cuban card in an SGC or PSA HOLDER... I have seen a bunch where I disagree with the grades and a couple of "short" Aguilitas that were given grades by PSA that should have gotten Authentics, but yet to see an outright fake in a holder. Beckett also used to slab Tomas Gutierrez cards that were cut from the album, not sure if they still do, but watch out for those...
Fundamentally the cards discussed in this thread look and fell a lot better than that Mendez that was in Baltimore... It is the back, the dating, the stats and the pictures that are most problematic to me. |
#119
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Quote:
__________________
Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 03-08-2014 at 12:08 PM. |
#120
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Don't have the card in front of me... But
Sine of the things that I (think that) I recall were the photo was kind of pasted onto a frame a la the punches instead if integrated into a a seemless card (punches are the only ones pasted onto a piece of paper)..,The coloring was not "black enough" .. The photo was "over processed". From what I recall even the back was wrong (color or font)... Steve and / or Ryan can probably correct any of my assertions here, but it has been a few years since I saw that card.
These cards on auction "look real" and if you read the post in Spanish the expert in Cuban comes to the conclusion based on the silver shining present at an angle that are common on a few of the Cuban issues from the 1920s... Something that the Mendez in Baltimore clearly did not have Not sure if that helps Leon.
__________________
Al Jurgela Looking for: 1910 Punch (Plank) 50 Hage's Dairy (Minoso) All Oscar Charleston Cards Rare Soccer cards Rare Boxing cards |
#121
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Quote:
__________________
Leon Luckey |
#122
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Thanks Al (Ryan, Steve and others) for sharing what to look for in these. As a type collector who would love to land a few, it's good to know from those in the know how to be better-informed buyers. BTW, your SGC registry sets are fantastic. Hope you don't mind, but I downloaded all the Billiken scans for my virtual collection, which is as close as I will come to actually owning the set. I see where Cesar's site says the cards can be found with La Moda backs--with what frequency are these encountered, if I may ask?
__________________
If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other. - Ulysses S. Grant, military commander, 18th US President. |
#123
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Ok, Spanish speakers: what does the J, V, C, and H mean on the backs of these cards? Obviously, Ave is average.....
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#124
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I have a theory but it needs some historical research. Clearly, on the backs of these cards, the V stands for at bats and the H stands for hits. If you do the math, you get the average. Now, J must stand for games played then ("juegos?). Now, there is no way they only played 6, 8, or 9 games during a Cuban season, so what if.....
....these 4 Almendares cards were indeed issued in 1922, but honored the 1911 and 1915 teams that played games against professional American baseball clubs? It would make sense then that the stats should only reflect 6-9 games, right? And why Pedroso would have his batting stats rather than pitching stats since he probably hit in the games he pitched and the games he did not.... Can someone verify that in 1911 and 1915, the Cuban Almendares club played games against MLB competition in Cuba? |
#125
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If only we could lose a war to Cuba...
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... |
#126
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Todd,
Here's a scan of Cueto with a La Moda back that I picked up years ago. For some reason, they are almost always found trimmed. I don't have a real good grasp on their frequency vis a vis the regular billiken back, but I would guesstimate that they show up at a rate of about 10% or less of the normal back. Ryan can correct me if I'm way off. |
#127
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Priveate message that manny sent me
03-07-2014, 03:29 PM
mannybb24's Avatar mannybb24 mannybb24 is offline Steve Peissig Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Somewhere in Americaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Posts: 206 Default Apology -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just wanted to privately apologize to you all for questioning the legitimacy of your cards. I am "Manny" from EBay and I was the first and maybe only one to give you a hard time about them being fake. I have run into quite a few fakes over the years and that for sure these were yet again not real. But if Rolando and Ryan say they are authentic then I only have to believe them and go by what they say. Again, sorry for the troubles and good luck with your auctions, I hope they bring in lots of money for you and your family. Also please tell Rolando he has an amazing collection, I am very envious of him and glad he was able to communicate with us American collectors. Saludos Steve |
#128
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I blocked him to bid in ebay and that is what he wrote me
Private Message: Re: Apology
Yesterday, 03:22 PM mannybb24's Avatar mannybb24 mannybb24 is offline Steve Peissig Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Somewhere in Americaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Posts: 206 Default Re: Apology -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm glad you unblocked me, I pay really well for Cuban cards that I need, no question. I have never bought Cuban cards for $20 and sold them for $2000 either, I have been collecting for only 5-6 years by that time I have paid thousands of dollars and have never made any money. I am just a collector, not a dealer. Thank you again for showing Rolando and his collection, very beautiful cards. Steve |
#129
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The privates messages sugges that is not telling his real intention when he write
There's only one bid for all 4 individual cards and the amateur lot and they happen to be the same guy.
Also the bids were placed two days ago, one day before this thread exploded on here. I'd be very surprised if someone who has read this thread will end up actually placing a bid on any of the cards, there's just too many holes in the story. Steve I BLOCKEN HIM AGAIN AFTER THOSE WORDS. |
#130
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I prefere to sell the cards in bad price that sell them to ryan or steve
THEY ARE SUGGESTING THAT CARDS ARE BAD TO GET THEM. I SHOW THE PRIVATE MESSAGE OF STEVE TO PROOF THAT. THEY ARE NOT PARANOID ABOUT THE CARDS.
but I demonstrate that RYAN is not the guy who know more about Cuban cards. I show the opinion of Rolando Sanchez himself and now Ryan refuse to keep his word that said in this forum that he will accept what Rolando said. his owns words were "if Rolando said they are originals i will accept it" but now he said NO. I am sure of two things,1- CARDS ARA ORIGINALS, NOT FAKES 2- As Ryan said "ROLANDO IS THE LEADING EXPERT IN CUBAN BASEBALL CARDS" |
#131
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I now kinda wished I hadn't opened up this can of worms....
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#132
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Ummmm okay, so I apologized to these guys and tried being really nice to them but now they're mad at me for what now?
Last edited by mannybb24; 03-09-2014 at 08:16 PM. |
#133
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Okay Ernesto, you asked for it. I don't have time right now, but I have A LOT more to say about these cards and their seller. Like "Ana," running your mouth is showing everyone more about who you are than any person you choose to attack. I was going to post more about these anyway, but now you've brought out the cabrón in me and I will be less delicate in how I speak about you.
And by the way, I have no problem calling Rolando the leading authority on Cuban baseball cards because (A) He is Cuban and lives in Cuba, and (B) He has had more cards go through his hands than me. I never said he knows more about Cuban baseball cards than me, because I don't believe that's the case. There are several card issues that I know about and have in my personal collection that he has never seen or heard of before. He has not been my only source for Cuban baseball cards. Rolando is an expert and it is disappointing to me that he has gotten dragged into this because of you, Ernesto. Or "Ana." Or whatever alias or new eBay ID you are using today. Later, I'll post a link to thread about some fake cards similar to these that I believe you may have been involved with. I busted the scam here on Net54 and was called all kinds of names and had plenty of accusations made against me, none of which were true. I can't find the thread right now, but trust me, I will. From now on, Ernesto, don't call me Ryan. You call me Pinche Cabrón. |
#134
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I guess I can't have an opinion or have the slightest doubt about these cards, my bad.
That's okay that they blocked me if they feel the need to do so, I think I'll survive. Too bad they think I'm such a bad guy though........... |
#135
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Quote:
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#136
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Ernesto partner Punch Aguilitas
I just called to Ernesto to told him about it.It is so tired, every day new things about the cards.
It should be easier. My name is Victor Martinez Jr.I growth looking to my father selling/buying cuban stuff.This world is awesome. My father bought some years ago Cuban Card well known as Polar ,He listed these on ebay,some people said that they were fake ,even Rolando and it was true,my father accepted it and sold all of them as fake.Later, He bought the biggest lot of Cuban card that I saw in my life with Punch,Billiken,etc, he sold all of them on ebay in great prices.I hope some of you remember that.I would like to say that we are dealers, we are humans,nothing is absolute in collection world, but we have good intentions, we do not do fake cards, please do not say that because is false and not intelligent.We want this world be clean ,is better for us. When we bought these romeo and julieta card did an small party celebrating this business,because cuban card is one of the best things in cuban stuff.We had to pay good prices and competition is strong like everywhere for find good items.I feel bad with that situation.I do not expected that!! I guaranteed these card are original,unfortunately you can see these in your hands.I am pretty sure if you could see these will not have any doubt. Ryan el cabron, please do not threatens we born in CUBA we are used to the worse.Please is funny!! Best regards, Victor |
#137
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Well, it's pretty strange that Steve apoligizes to Ernesto/Victor, gets insulted and blocked from bidding on the cards in question on Ebay -- now I just checked the Ebay listing and Steve is listed on the site and thanked for actually apologizing in the first place!
Is this a language thing or a bizarre reality thing? |
#138
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Quote:
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#139
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Cards backside Letters and numbers
J...............Games
V...............at bat C...............runs H...............hits Fielding A...............assists E................errors |
#140
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Cards
For some of you this is a game, for us is our world,business, and the way to get a plate of food for the table.For this reason is sad to hear that people who know nothing of baseball say are fake.Anyway,The world is free and everybody can tell what you want.
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#141
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cards
We do not sure about good intentions of some buyers.I am personally confused about some attitudes.
It looks like a war!!, we tried to convince you and another guys saying are not good.We want to earn money, other I do not know.I am happy to found these because are really rarest and some of them nobody had seen before. We have the biggest post right now on net54. |
#142
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Quote:
Quote:
Now it's Victor? You should have just stopped talking at some point. I don't know if it's different in Cuba but when I hear someone over-explaining, I think they are lying. Last edited by Jaybird; 03-10-2014 at 12:56 AM. |
#143
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I am confused (and don't feel like going back and reading through every post thoroughly to see if I missed something).
Early in this thread, I thought the cards were said to have been found in Spain and that the seller was also in Spain. When the seller said that Rolando could authenticate these cards, they also said Rolando was in Cuba but that they could get him on the phone the next day at 3P.M. and Rolando could help to straighten things out. Voila, the next day, Rolando is not only on the phone but he is in the picture with he seller and he has the cards in his hands. Now, here is where my confusion comes in. If Rolando is in Cuba one day but the seller shows him holding the cards the next day, did Rolando fly to Spain overnight? Or were the pictures just of Orlando (with the seller) holding different cards at a different time? David |
#144
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I think Spain is the conduit through which things flow if you get my drift....
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#145
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Found it
I found the link the the thread about the fake cards from 2005: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=79499
Notice the familiar pattern of attacking me personally, calling me Mr. Ryan, discussing what I've bought in the past, using several aliases and different names, etc. I suspect that it's possible the people that tried to pass off those fakes as real are the same people we're dealing with now. One of the first red flags for me was when I look a "seller's other auctions" on ebay and saw all those fountain pens. EXACTLY what the seller of the previous fakes ("Polar") specialized in on ebay. And suddenly there's a newer eBay account with a feedback rating of only 41, who also specializes in fountain pens and items from Cuba, just like the Polar seller. And they come on Net54 and sound exactly like the previous scammers and use the same tactics such as personally attacking me. It still doesn't mean that these are fake. It's possible for real cards to be discovered by unethical people. But the seller's current behavior probably isn't building anyone's confidence about the legitimacy of these cards. There are other red flags I will post about shortly, but anyone who reads that entire thread about the fake Polar cards will find it extremely similar to this one. -Ryan |
#146
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Quote:
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#147
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I would think Cuban sets would be a target for card forgers (not saying these cards are the work of a forger, for clarity) because relatively little would be known about them. Therefore it would be hard to tell a fake card from a fantasy card from an authentic card from an undiscovered or scarcely seen set.
Last edited by packs; 03-10-2014 at 12:21 PM. |
#148
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Quote:
And a bit of clarification on the old Blue Eyes Wagner that the 2 African American guys are trying to sell. That card does have a real back so the paper and everything tests out fine. Then when the front is examined the story falls apart....
__________________
Leon Luckey |
#149
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Here's another thing about repros (fakes). They always show less of the image than the original. They are always cropped in to avoid showing the edges or borders of the card they are copied from. In this case, they are all the same images from the Punch cards but are noticeably cropped from those images. Not definitive, just another question mark.
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#150
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I never sold fakes card in fontainpens
check my feedback, I never sold fakes baseball cards with my old partner fountainpens. I sold the Aguilitas second series album, but never sold fakes POLAR or any other cards.
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