Just a Little Concerned About This.....

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by travrosty

find out this shlub's name through a reverse address check online and post it for everybody to see. he shouldnt be able to remain anonymous.

Just tried it, doesn't show to be a good address in google maps or whitepages.com.

[Tcards-Please]

Greg,

So you returned a card to an address that doesn't exist. I would think with that information, Paypal would refund your money since they are the ones who gave you the address. What happens now when what you mailed can't be delivered? How long is paypal going to make you jump through hoops?

I just don't understand how paypal didn't immediately side with you since the card that was advertised by the seller belonged to someone else. So they know you couldn't have received that card regardless of what card you actually received.

Hope it all works out for you.

r/
Frank

[Clutch-Hitter]

Thanks Frank,

My wife just spoke to them again and verified the address for the third time (three separate calls throughout the day). She told the employee that the address did not seem to exist. The PP person said if he refuses it or it is a bad address I will get refunded.

I've been told during two different calls since this started that customers do not have to return counterfeit cards. Because we talk to someone different during each call, my wife asked why we had to return it and was told people always have to return no matter what.

About ready to catch a plane, would be well worth the expense.

[Clutch-Hitter]

And I doubt his name is Rose. Sleeveless yeah, Rose no.

[Clutch-Hitter]

I kept the package it came in. The postage label reads 92544, but the return zip was 92583.

[jimq]

This shows up as his painting business in helmut ca, phone #951-487-5095. The zip for this address is the 92544. This address is his house, pictured at the link below

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=27070%...cbp=12,0,0,0,0

[Clutch-Hitter]

Thanks,
The address Paypal gave me is not that one

[jimq]

Well I'm sure it's all ok now. The guy wouldn't cheat anybody, he's a minister with his own church.

http://lightoflovechapel.webs.com/apps/members/

There is a paypal button to donate, I guess if you donate $.01 you could see if it's the same account, and prove to paypal that the address you're using is correct!

[iggyman]

Wow! What a headache, but hang in there. I had a similar situation, but it was resolved quickly and to my satisfaction. Last month, I purchased on eBay what I assumed to be a 1934 Butterfinger Babe Ruth card/premium. When the card arrived it was an obvious counterfeit (laser printer copy). The seller did not accept returns, so I quickly opened a case and simply stated that the item was not as described, and was not a baseball card (seller only described the item as an old Babe Ruth baseball card). A few days later, eBay sent me a prepaid UPS link which I used to ship the card back. Refund was issued (by eBay) once the card arrived back at the sellers house. I did not have to incur any return shipping charges, nor did I need to know where the seller lived (it almost felt like I was using Amazon).

In your situation, I'm not sure why eBay did not do the same? Perhaps, my seller agreed to take the card back and that made things alot easier? I now feel very fortunate.

Good luck!

Lovely Day...

[Tsaiko]

Originally Posted by jimq

Well I'm sure it's all ok now. The guy wouldn't cheat anybody, he's a minister with his own church.

http://lightoflovechapel.webs.com/apps/members/

There is a paypal button to donate, I guess if you donate $.01 you could see if it's the same account, and prove to paypal that the address you're using is correct!

Great Caesar's Ghost, this guy has more scams than Madoff.

If I were to bet, I'd bet that that address, with the kid and soccer mom mini van in front, is the home of his ex wife, whom he owes child support to, going back six years. But he still visits his kid so he can pick up his mail.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Amazing. Hopefully they have law enforcement.

Iggy, I only used Paypal and was misinformed/lied to at least four times.

[Clutch-Hitter]

And Iggy, an auction with a fake Butterfinger Ruth ended within the last few days and sounds like maybe the same. His info said some sort of advertising was on the back.

And by the way, I used Bill Me Later for the last time for this, so maybe that's why the customer service was so poor. The extra 1% cash back isn't worth it.

[iggyman]

I don't want to derail this thread but......yep, that was the same Ruth card; with the exception that he used a much better picture this time, which made it easy to tell it was a reprint. The last pic was taken from the Effiel tower. For the record, he used a different eBay-id with this second try. I never bothered with a bookmark. Hopefully, the Ruth card did not sell for much.

Anyways, I'm certain that paypal will give you a full refund once your much more sophisticated scammer gets his reprint back. The only cause for concern is the return address, somehow you really need to verify it's correct.

Lovely Day...

[Clutch-Hitter]

Thanks Iggy.
--------------------------------

Sleeveless is a minister. That's nice. Their law enforcement is likely familiar with sleeveless and company but to be sure, I'm going to give them a buzz.

You know, identity theft here in Alabama can be prosecuted in the victim's JD or in the suspect's. If something like that existed for this type crime, we likely wouldn't see as much of it. There may be something like that already

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Clutch-Hitter

I've been told during two different calls since this started that customers do not have to return counterfeit cards.

Greg,

I'm sorry this happened to you and I feel sure PayPal will give you your money back, but I don't understand why they would tell you that counterfeit cards don't have to be returned. If that were true, what would keep scammers from claiming they received a "counterfeit" card from a seller and expect their money back from PayPal without having to return the card? Makes no sense. That said, I would have drawn a moustache and some eye glasses on the card with a Sharpee and returned it like that.

David

[Clutch-Hitter]

David,

It makes absolutely no sense. Based on what Iggy said, I should have communicated with Ebay instead of Paypal. Paypal lied to us multiple times, or at least said things they didn't follow through with. Another has been added since, a male employee told my wife the day we were ordered to ship the evidence that he would forward all email communications to us, but he didn't, He also said Paypal sent a message with the seller's address on the 11th. If they did, I couldn't find it even though I'm a bit obsessive about details like that. The fact that I used bill me later may further verify that I should not have communicated solely with Paypal, and in fact, Paypal said my bill me later was a 'guest account,' which seemed to indicate it was less significant.

It looks like there's no such address for the one he provided, but their PD has a heads up on the receiver of evidence, forged instruments and such. They were surprisingly receptive.

And here's a bit of information I must have learned from TV:

He sent the card in a screw down holder, which is comprised of a smooth surface inside and out. The use of such requires specific vertical pressure, therefore what the felon did was seal his fingerprints inside the screw down. He also sealed the fingerprints on the card inside the screwed down plastic.

Further, when a person uses tape, it's almost impossible to avoid handling the sticky side, and fingerprints cling to the sticky side better than most surfaces (you may know this from taping packages). Therefore, when he placed tape on the package, which contained his fingerprints on the sticky, downward facing side, and then placed the tape downward on the package, he trapped his identifying information on the envelope.

I have several examples of his, a family member's, a co-felon's, etc fingerprints, and it's going to be interesting watching him or his acquaintance explain how they managed to appear in central Alabama. A knowledgeable friend with the proper equipment helped, which primarily included photographing the evidence with a scale, which is apparently equal to actually lifting them. The scale enabled him to resize the prints on a 1/1 scale. They're beautiful.

There have been many cases of construction workers taking advantage of the elderly and/or single women, and he's possibly been pegged for that as well. We'll see.

I'm in contact with some people there and offered to fly over there if needed and to fly back for a court appearance. I figure it's only the right thing to do, especially for all the existing and/or potential victims there.

There may be an interesting event in the next few days, will keep y'all updated.

edited to say: Or maybe sooner
Expected Delivery By:
May 22, 2012
Delivery Confirmation™

[Leon]

And don't forget anything that goes through the mail can involve the US Postal Inspectors. They have way more authority than some folks are aware of. Their authority is Federal so they can cross some boundaries (I think) that local law enforcement might not be able to.

[Clutch-Hitter]

ahead of schedule

Out for Delivery
May 21, 2012, 7:42 am
SAN JACINTO, CA 92583

[glchen]

Good luck, Greg. Based on my experience, getting claims through ebay is much better than paypal also. You would think that it would be the same since they are the same company, but it's not the case.

[HBroll]

Yes Gary is right. Going through eBay is much easier than PayPal in my experience too. Same company but they have very different ways of handling things. Good luck Greg.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Leon

And don't forget anything that goes through the mail can involve the US Postal Inspectors. They have way more authority than some folks are aware of. Their authority is Federal so they can cross some boundaries (I think) that local law enforcement might not be able to.

Plus there's no statute of limitations on postal crimes. In theory they could come after someone 20 years from now for misusuing a priority box....Not that they'd bother over one or two.

The stuff I learn at the stamp club
(We have a local PM of a large facility give a talk about some aspect of the mail once a year)

Steve B

[Clutch-Hitter]

.....Please ship the items listed as "Granted" below back to the seller. The
items should be in their original condition and you are responsible for
shipping and handling costs.

160783078432: Hank Greenberg 1938 Goudey #253 Baseball Card
Outcome: granted

Seller's address:
1486 raphael ct
san jacinto, CA 92583
United States

Once you've shipped the item(s), please log in to your PayPal account and
visit the Resolution Center to provide online tracking information for the
package.

This tracking information is necessary because it confirms that the package
was delivered.....



LINK to tracking https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfi...50000387554315

[Clutch-Hitter]

The fake card returned to my mail box yesterday

My wife called and asked for ebay. They said they could not help because Paypal was working it
- ebay asked my wife for the address the felon provided and confirmed that the one linked to his ebay account was different than the one he provided as a return address.
- therefore, because they are one and the same, ebay/paypal knowingly had me spend money sending the fake card to an address that doesn't exist. Or are they the same?
- I received a message from Paypal yesterday, after the card returned, demanding we provide proof of shipping by May #### or else the case would be closed with no refund. Yes, the date was comprised of pound signs.
- I emailed pictures of the returned package, including postage marks , etc to Paypal and am waiting to hear back.

[rainier2004]

Greg:

All I can say is that situation you're in absolutely sucks. Good for you being tough about getting your money back. Not a knock or derail here, but its ironic ther is a ethical debate thread on pp/ebay at the moment. I wonder how much time their CEOs think about ethical treatment towards their dollars, I mean customers.

[slidekellyslide]

I sometimes think that Paypal must pick people at random to put through the ringer.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Greg:

All I can say is that situation you're in absolutely sucks. Good for you being tough about getting your money back. Not a knock or derail here, but its ironic ther is a ethical debate thread on pp/ebay at the moment. I wonder how much time their CEOs think about ethical treatment towards their dollars, I mean customers.

I know of at least one.

This week we had a car mounted bike rack fail causing damage to the customers bikes. Even though the problem was unusual, and they feel the rack may have been overoaded (It wasn't) Allen racks is covering all the repairs. And they want the broken rack back so they can improve it. The whole thing was handled personally by the owner/ceo.

And we're not even a really big shop.

Steve B

[Clutch-Hitter]

I have until the end of today to jump through their next hoop or else the felon keeps the cash. They will not accept an email with images, so the scans have to be uploaded in their resolution center. Had to call and remind them that there is no case in their resolution center because of the "guest" account. They said fax the images. From my experience, scans do not appear on the other end very well when faxed, but we'll see. The deadlines they provide for victims of felonious crimes are interesting...I took a survey a few minutes ago that will hopefully get to somebody rational over there.

Steven, I did notice that. My opinion on the ethics thing with Paypal is biased/tainted at the moment so I did not comment in that thread. I have no respect for that business at the moment.

In general, I usually view things this way: it's different to judge a company/business' ethics versus an individual's. And it's not up to one individual to monitor another individual's ethics; that's on the other individual. Get the plank out of your own eye so to speak.

How many people per year get ripped off on ebay, just in our tiny section? I've learned through this process that they supposedly have a counterfeit team, but I'm only deducting that from what I was told, which was amidst lies. I haven't been contacted by the counterfeit team. So, if they do have one, how easy would it be to pull all questionable listings? Easy IMO. But they don't; they wait for somebody outside like us to point them out. If they have one, they do nothing apparently, easy job. That's just our section. It's a haven for felons who have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Their profit percentages far exceed those of honest sellers. Nothing to lose, no accountability, no consequences...this thread proves that beyond a reasonable doubt. Who holds them accountable? Which leader in that company?

Phil did start a good topic

It's much better to just send a check and not allow them to collect fees on gifts either.

[Clutch-Hitter]

The point I made about how many people get scammed per year on ebay, and how it's overtly allowed to happen, was my attempt to agree with Steve about how the dollars are more important to them than customers. For me, this is obvious in this current ordeal.

I had a lengthy response in Phil's thread yesterday that I cancelled due to my current thinking, not sure it was how I feel in general. I've been pissed for more than a month now. I've tried to look at this objectively but still can't make sense of making me pay in money, time, hassle, etc.

Steve B, was that a Paypal related thing you mentioned?

Thanks again for all the help

[Clutch-Hitter]

The library charged 3.00 to fax three pages, so the total hassle this week is at 5.80. The felon's total spent is 0.00 and total time invested is probably five minutes since the very beginning, which is the amount of time his reply to them took. Reverand sleeveless...

I'd bet they're still not satisfied even though I gave them what they wanted again.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Clutch-Hitter

The point I made about how many people get scammed per year on ebay, and how it's overtly allowed to happen, was my attempt to agree with Steve about how the dollars are more important to them than customers. For me, this is obvious in this current ordeal.

I had a lengthy response in Phil's thread yesterday that I cancelled due to my current thinking, not sure it was how I feel in general. I've been pissed for more than a month now. I've tried to look at this objectively but still can't make sense of making me pay in money, time, hassle, etc.

Steve B, was that a Paypal related thing you mentioned?

Thanks again for all the help

No, totally unrelated to Paypal or Ebay.

The post I responded to wondered about the lack of business owners who actually cared about their customers as customers. And since I had a recent experience with one who did I figured I'd mention it.

I have no doubt that Paypal/ebay is clueless and buried under convoluted "rules" they need to give the clueless minimum wage drones they hire some guidance.

And sadly while it would be more effective to set the local law and /or the postal inspectors on the seller it will also be difficult to get them interested in looking into it.

Steve B

[carrigansghost]

The minimum wage drones need to be guided by the overprices middle management that is over them. The problem in business today is the middle management and not the "minimum wage clones".

Rawn

[Wite3]

Just FYI,
Hemet Sheriff might be able to help...

951-776-1099
800-950-2444

He should be reported just for his different scams if nothing else and might already be on their radar.

Joshua

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by steve B

The post I responded to wondered about the lack of business owners who actually cared about their customers as customers. And since I had a recent experience with one who did I figured I'd mention it.
Steve B

Steve B. - I have faith in lots of business owners and even bigger businesses. I questioned ebay/pp CEO's and ethics only, and as Greg and I found out, the written word can imply wrong things here. I know GREAT business owners...that is who I try to conduct my business with.

[rjackson44]

Take him to court

[steve B]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Steve B. - I have faith in lots of business owners and even bigger businesses. I questioned ebay/pp CEO's and ethics only, and as Greg and I found out, the written word can imply wrong things here. I know GREAT business owners...that is who I try to conduct my business with.

Ah, my mistake.

The Allen rack guy is still one of the good ones.

Steve B

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by steve B

I have no doubt that Paypal/ebay is clueless and buried under convoluted "rules" they need to give the clueless minimum wage drones they hire some guidance.

Steve B

Just out of respect lets leave the name calling of the employees down. We all have jobs that we have/had that we had to do within the confines of the supervisors even when we disagreed with the decisions handed down to us.

I have a family member who works in the Fraud department at Paypal and has been there for a very long time. I have heard complaints from their side about things within Paypal, but also from customers.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Just out of respect lets leave the name calling of the employees down. We all have jobs that we have/had that we had to do within the confines of the supervisors even when we disagreed with the decisions handed down to us.

I have a family member who works in the Fraud department at Paypal and has been there for a very long time. I have heard complaints from their side about things within Paypal, but also from customers.

Hey Andy,

First, make no mistake about it; I'm a drone to Paypal the business and have possibly been referred to with name calling and judgements in private by Paypal individuals. So because "drone" is name calling, is it better, worse, or the same to use that word in private versus public? It's impossible individualize the word because it inherently implies the business is comprised of ...., which would be a viewpoint/observation, with any negative aspect directed toward the business. However, it's much easier to pin point me, tag me with the label. Sorry, one would have to be very, very sensitive to individualize that adjective, however mild it is, to himself or herself in this context. Steve did appear to be correctly criticizing the management anyway.

Although you'd only be accepting my word on this, I spoke to everyone, except one female, with respect and kindness. The one female was rude, and I told her so. The other people I spoke to apparently said whatever it took to get off the phone since there were so many things that turned out to be lies. You don't have to know me personally to realize what happened here, so since we're individualizing Paypal workers now, maybe your family member who works in fraud can explain why the felon still has my money? I'm going to call him felon, because he is, until I have my money back. Or at least some insight...you dropped in to criticize in the form of some sort of duty, confronting the bully sort of speak. He was never here, so feel free to enlighten us on the process by which these fraud investigations unfold. Thanks

The few times I heard my wife speaking to them, I wondered how she was managing to be so nice, so that answers that.

Steve B, thank you again for your help in my dealings with both the felon and Paypal, with the latter promising false hopes of protection while continuing to behave contrary to their marketing scheme.

Respectfully

Thanks everybody for the help. I've learned what the word monopoly means.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Did y'all see this video featuring "pastor" Rose?

http://lightoflovechapel.webs.com/ap...channel-4-news

[Clutch-Hitter]

Here's Rose's fellow "pastor"

http://pastordonroberthunt.webs.com/

Check out the pictures of children in need (his kid dressed for the occasion eating ice cream?) at the bottom and the picture of the outreach executive director, Seba Rose. Must be his wife, what a blatant felon!

http://lightoflovechapel.webs.com/

[Clutch-Hitter]

This guy needs to be on the news again

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Just out of respect lets leave the name calling of the employees down. We all have jobs that we have/had that we had to do within the confines of the supervisors even when we disagreed with the decisions handed down to us.

I have a family member who works in the Fraud department at Paypal and has been there for a very long time. I have heard complaints from their side about things within Paypal, but also from customers.

I can see your point, but how then to politely describe the people I've been unfortunate enough to deal with the few times I've needed to call either Ebay or Paypal? I'm sure there's a few intelligent dedicated employees there, but I've never talked to any of them.

I've had the same sort of experience, only with less money involved. Promised a lot, nothing delivered.
Had to explain the problem multiple times to multiple people who seemed incapable of even understanding the problem.
Been promised "a $20 credit for the nuisance of being on the phone for over an hour" twice---Still waiting for that.

it is entirely possible that they're stuck with bad rules by bad management, but the impression is they're merely going through the motions and trying to make quota on the number of calls "handled".


Steve B

[RUSH2112]

Time for you to get nasty and post any information you have about this guy.

email address - phone number - address ect.

I already have his pic saved on my desktop.

[CharleyBrown]

I would send an email to guy stating that, unless he rectifies the situation within 24 hours, you will be contacting everybody that lives near him within a 3 block radius to inform them that he is a thief. To make my point clear, I would copy/paste every single person's name, phone #, and address in the email.

It may seem ridiculous, but some people are blatant thieves online, but would hate to be humiliated in their community. Every time that I've been in a similar situation, I've had the money returned to me within the stated time period.

[Tsaiko]

Originally Posted by CharleyBrown

I would send an email to guy stating that, unless he rectifies the situation within 24 hours, you will be contacting everybody that lives near him within a 3 block radius to inform them that he is a thief. To make my point clear, I would copy/paste every single person's name, phone #, and address in the email.

It may seem ridiculous, but some people are blatant thieves online, but would hate to be humiliated in their community. Every time that I've been in a similar situation, I've had the money returned to me within the stated time period.

There's a company that provides this type of service in California.
http://www.alibisnpaybacks.com/

[UOFLfan7]

I can't believe the guy who sent you that card had the guts to post a pic of a real PSA graded card on Ebay, and then send you a completely different card that even says reprint on the back.
Defiently should get your money back, and don't let up. Best of luck to you!

[Clutch-Hitter]

Won the case a few days ago and received a message from Paypal stating they'd refund the money if they could recover it from his account, otherwise they'd place limits on his account.

Just noticed I received a credit to my account for the full amount.

Fellas, I appreciate everything. Thanks Leon.

[HBroll]

Great news! Glad to hear you got a full refund!

[rainier2004]

The good guys win won

[ibuysportsephemera]

Awesome, congrats!

Jeff

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Clutch-Hitter

Won the case a few days ago and received a message from Paypal stating they'd refund the money if they could recover it from his account, otherwise they'd place limits on his account.

Just noticed I received a credit to my account for the full amount.

Fellas, I appreciate everything. Thanks Leon.

Glad it worked out. Paypal can be good even though we hear a lot of bad stuff. Several weeks ago I filed a claim against our old hosting company of Net54baseball, Global Gold Inc. They were too incompetent to do what I paid them to do and I never used their cloud service, yet paid around $1300 for a year of it in advance. A few weeks ago Paypal refunded my full amount to me. The hosting company didn't dispute it at all but still Paypal got my money back when I couldn't. I had already tried contacting the company (in the UK) first and they were completely unresponsive.