Who was better, who would you take, Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays?

[tedzan]

That is an age old question as to who was the better ballplayer. As a an avid BB fan since 1947, I have been fortunate to see all three of them play
from their rookie year to their retirement.

As a Yankees fan, obviously I favor Mickey. In retrospect, all three were great in their inimitable way.

However, for sheer drama, Mantle leads the pack. Events like seeing the Mick hitting a 565-foot HR that cleared the CF wall at old Griffith Stadium
is incomparable.

Or, seeing Mickey hit a Grand-Slam in the 1953 World Series to beat the Dodgers is something the other two guys never did.

Or, when Mickey ran down Gil Hodges' drive to the Monuments in deep left-center field of Yankee Stadium in the 5th game of the 1956 World Series
to preserve Don Larsen's Perfect game.

I leave you guys with this question......
Whose "footsteps" did Willie or the Duke replace ?

Mickey stepped into the footsteps of a "LEGEND"....and, trust me that is one of the toughest things in BB to do and to succeed ! !

There is only one other ballplayer (since WWII) that has accomplished that fete (excuse the pun).....Can you name him ? ?


TED Z
__________________________________________________ ______________________
LOOKING FOR these T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set

AMES....CAMNITZ....CRAWFORD (bat)....DOYLE (port)....JORDAN (bat)....MARQUARD
McGRAW (port-cap).....McQUILLAN (bat).....TINKER (bat off).....WILTSE (port-cap)

[itjclarke]

Yaz?

[tedzan]

Yes, it's Yaz.

I could be wrong; but, I think Yaz and Mickey are the only guys to replace "LEGENDS" in BB and succeed to the extent that they did.


TED Z

[the 'stache]

The area where Mays wins the argument is his defense. Otherwise, if we're talking offensive production, the "clearly Mays was better" argument is specious at best. Not so fast.

Consider the 162 game averages for their careers:

Mays .302 AVG, 36 HR, 103 RBI, .384 OBP, .557 SLG, .941 OPS, OPS+ 156
Mantle .298, 36 HR, 102 RBI, .421 OBP, .557 SLG, .977 OPS, OPS+ 172

Mantle won three MVP Awards
Mays won two

Mantle won the 1956 Triple Crown. Mays never led the league in RBI, so he never won the Triple Crown

Mantle, though he played four fewer seasons, won more home run titles, four to three

Each player won the batting title once

Mays led his league in runs scored twice. Mantle five times

Mays walked over 100 times in a seasons once, in 1971 when he led the league. Mantle walked over 100 times in a season on ten separate occasions, leading his league five times. Conversely, Mays never led the league in strike outs, and only struck out 100 or more in a seasons once. Mantle struck out over 100 eight times, leading the league in whiffs five times.

Mays led his league in OPS + six times. Mantle led in OPS+ eight times.

Though Mays hit more career home runs, he averaged a homer every 16.48 at bats. Mantle averaged a home run every 15.11 at bats.

When their OPS is adjusted by the ballparks they played in, Mantle clearly comes out on top.

Mays was the far better base stealer, and there's no comparison. But oddly enough, Mantle was the more successful base stealer by the percentages. Mays stole 338 bases in 441 tries (76.64%). Mantle stole 153 bases in 191 attempts (80.10%).

The one thing to keep in mind about Mantle is that he tore his knee up as a rookie tripping over a sprinkler head in the 1951 World Series. He was never the same after that. When he came into the league, Mantle was the fastest man in the league bar none. In a foot race, he'd have left Willie Mays in the dust. That affected his base stealing, as well as his defense. Now, I can't hold that against Willie Mays. There's something to be said about staying relatively healthy, and playing longer. But Mantle's knee injury was not due to negligence on his part. His late-night carousing had nothing to do with that injury, at least.

If I were forced to pick one player of the two, I'd pick Mantle by the slimmest of margins. In his prime, he was the better player. He was not as decorated in the field, but Mantle managed to hit 536 home runs with injuries that would have kept most players off the field. How he managed to do that is a question that will float around in the back of my head until the day they bury me.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

2 of the best of all time, but I would have to go with the Mick...

Hey Kev,

Can You still Start the Poll Option?
I would really Like to See who the Crowd will Roar Louder for!

May a NeW Thread!?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by irishdenny

Hey Kev,

Can You still Start the Poll Option?
I would really Like to See who the Crowd will Roar Louder for!

May a NeW Thread!?

I agree with the poll. not sure I know how to do it however!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

As a Yankees fan, obviously I favor Mickey. In retrospect, all three were great in their inimitable way.

However, for sheer drama, Mantle leads the pack. Events like seeing the Mick hitting a 565-foot HR that cleared the CF wall at old Griffith Stadium
is incomparable.

Or, seeing Mickey hit a Grand-Slam in the 1953 World Series to beat the Dodgers is something the other two guys never did.

Or, when Mickey ran down Gil Hodges' drive to the Monuments in deep left-center field of Yankee Stadium in the 5th game of the 1956 World Series
to preserve Don Larsen's Perfect game.

Furthermore, I could run-up this thread to 200 posts re-telling the excitement generated by Mickey Mantle (which I saw in person or on TV). I'll just add this event......

Probably, the most tremendous HR hit by Mickey occurred 50 years ago (next month) at Yankee Stadium. In the 11th inning vs the Kansas City A's, Mick blasted a HR
that hit the RF facade 102 feet above the field. The point of impact was 363 feet from Home Plate. Some witnesses claimed the trajectory of the ball was still rising
upon impact. Others said it had reached it's apex. In any event, had this drive cleared the Stadium's roof, it was projected that it would have traveled 600+ feet.

I have the May 23rd 1963 New York News front page depiction of this event....but, it is somewhere in my archives and I have not yet found it. Perhaps some one on
this forum has the picture of this blast (or a link to it).



Their personalities at signing events............


............................ FRIENDLY .................................................. SOUR-PUSS .............................................. A REAL GENTLEMAN






TED Z
__________________________________________________ ______________________
LOOKING FOR these T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set

AMES....CAMNITZ....CRAWFORD (bat)....DOYLE (port)....JORDAN (bat)....MARQUARD
McGRAW (port-cap).....McQUILLAN (bat).....TINKER (bat off).....WILTSE (port-cap)

[Jlighter]

Here you go Mr. Z.

http://www.hittrackeronline.com/historic.php?id=1963_3

[Exhibitman]

Another way to parse the issue is to ask who you would sign to a long-term contract as a free agent.

And WTF:

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Another way to parse the issue is to ask who you would sign to a long-term contract as a free agent.

Depends upon which part of their respective career and how long the contract. I think Bonilla got the best of both of them!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Here you go Mr. Z.

http://www.hittrackeronline.com/historic.php?id=1963_3

Thanks for the link, Jake

I've read thru all 100+ posts in this thread. Lots, and lots of numbers. However Jake, crunching all these stats cannot really tell the story of these two great players,
as anyone who actually saw them play can. I was very fortunate as a kid, growing up near New York City, during the late 1940's and the decade of the 1950's when
the Yankees, Dodgers, and Giants dominated the BB scene. Furthermore, when you reach my age, your memory starts regressing back to your youth....and, most of
those great BB years from my youth are very clear in my mind.







TED Z

__________________________________________________ ______________________
LOOKING FOR these T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set

AMES....CAMNITZ....CRAWFORD (bat)....DOYLE (port)....JORDAN (bat)....MARQUARD
McGRAW (port-cap).....McQUILLAN (bat).....TINKER (bat off).....WILTSE (port-cap)