PWCC is alive and well

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Goodsport40

Legal type question:

If the authorities are able to prove that Moser and Brent knowingly committed fraud by selling altered items as authentic(at higher grades due to trimming, etc.) would each item sold be considered one count of fraud each?

My apologies if this has been covered in another thread. Thanks.

Not a legal answer, but if each incident was a separate count of fraud, you would need a team of mathematicians with advanced degrees to tally the total. Believe it or not I have a BS in Mathematics and would volunteer........

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I think I’ve got the hang of it. How am I doing?

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Not a legal answer, but if each incident was a separate count of fraud, you would need a team of mathematicians with advanced degrees to tally the total. Believe it or not I have a Degree in BS and would volunteer........

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I think I’ve got the hang of it. How am I doing?

Fixed that for you, Frank.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by bocabirdman

fixed that for you, frank.

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[Goodsport40]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

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Lol. That is what I thought. We all want quick action against the guilty parties, but it appears this may take some time.

[Johnny630]

Pay back restitution for the bad cards......some probation/community service, maybe some home detention....that's about all I see coming from this.....
there is a deal behind each and every courthouse door

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Pay back restitution for a small percentage of the bad cards......some probation/community service, maybe some home detention....that's about all I see coming from this.....
there is a deal behind each and every courthouse door

Fixed it for you.
We'll see what happens, I guess. I am glad at least some significant amount has been repaid, in the meantime.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Fixed it for you.
We'll see what happens, I guess. I am glad at least some significant amount has been repaid, in the meantime.

yup it's peanuts in the grand scheme of things....the same crap will always be in this industry....it's a shame....

[CuriousGeorge]

Johnny, believe me I get it and feel your pain, but do you really think this is very different than many other industries? Unfortunately this is how it often works in the world and while this one digs a little deeper because it’s what we know and love, it’s likely just another scam in another business to the people investigating it.

Originally Posted by Johnny630

yup it's peanuts in the grand scheme of things....the same crap will always be in this industry....it's a shame....

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Johnny, believe me I get it and feel your pain, but do you really think this is very different than many other industries? Unfortunately this is how it often works in the world and while this one digs a little deeper because it’s what we know and love, it’s likely just another scam in another business to the people investigating it.

Wow.....I don’t know how to reply to that.....

[CuriousGeorge]

You don’t need to respond but unfortunately it’s sad and true. Corruption is everywhere. The mayor of NYC sells out his office to donors. The governor of NY’s best friends are in jail for taking and making bribes but he of course knew nothing. It sucks but this is life. If TPG are going to have relaxed restrictions as to how they grade cards, unscrupulous people are going to try and exploit it. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Wow.....I don’t know how to reply to that.....

[barrysloate]

No politics please. Net54 is a politics free zone.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

yup it's peanuts in the grand scheme of things....the same crap will always be in this industry hobby....it's a shame....

Freudian slip?

[Yankees1964]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Thoughts on my second and third points

In the past couple of years I was involved with the FBI on with a fraud/theft investigation of a non profit that I am on the board of directors for. It was incredible to me at the time how slow the investigation was going. About six months into it, I had a discussion with the Agent in Charge and asked her why the heck it was taking so long when we clearly had identified what happened and knew who the offender was. She told me that they are slow and methodical on purpose. She told me that every "i" is dotted and every "t" is crossed before they move with any indictments. She chuckled and told me that this is why you rarely see the FBI lose a case. There were so many times that I thought nothing was going on and yet below the surface there were a dozen or more people working on it. If they truly are investigating PWCC and or PSA or anyone else, they won't know it till the FBI wants them to.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

It amazes me how persistent you guys are. Talking about the same things. Same lines over and over between the 5-10 guys.

It's because we stand for something. guys like you didn't even want to believe from the start how deep and how long this scam show has been running.

We are doing this believe it or not for idiots just like you martian that can't understand normal thinking. So there is a record of it, on the inter web.

Dufusas like yourself will still continue to pop and play the corporate PSA game all the while try to silence truth tellers. Did your cards pop, oh boy, they're popping, I'm so excited. pop goes the weasel. You were wrong from the beginning and you are wrong now, WAKE UP dummie. It's a scam.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

It's because we stand for something. guys like you didn't even want to believe from the start how deep and how long this scam show has been running.

We are doing this believe it or not for idiots just like you martian that can't understand normal thinking. So there is a record of it, on the inter web.

Dufusas like yourself will still continue to pop and play the corporate PSA game all the while try to silence truth tellers. Did your cards pop, oh boy, they're popping, I'm so excited. pop goes the weasel. You were wrong from the beginning and you are wrong now, WAKE UP dummie. It's a scam.

While I understand your frustration, THE WHOLE HOBBY ISN'T A SCAM!!!! If you think it is, maybe you should take up needlepoint? It's safer.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

It's because we stand for something. guys like you didn't even want to believe from the start how deep and how long this scam show has been running.

We are doing this believe it or not for idiots just like you martian that can't understand normal thinking. So there is a record of it, on the inter web.

Dufusas like yourself will still continue to pop and play the corporate PSA game all the while try to silence truth tellers. Did your cards pop, oh boy, they're popping, I'm so excited. pop goes the weasel. You were wrong from the beginning and you are wrong now, WAKE UP dummie. It's a scam.

Maybe Peter Nash wrote "Pop Goes the Weasel" about a PSA submission gone wrong?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

It's because we stand for something. guys like you didn't even want to believe from the start how deep and how long this scam show has been running.

We are doing this believe it or not for idiots just like you martian that can't understand normal thinking. So there is a record of it, on the inter web.

Dufusas like yourself will still continue to pop and play the corporate PSA game all the while try to silence truth tellers. Did your cards pop, oh boy, they're popping, I'm so excited. pop goes the weasel. You were wrong from the beginning and you are wrong now, WAKE UP dummie. It's a scam.

What is truly amazing is that every time PWCC is the topic Goudey77 (Martin) crawls out from some rock somewhere and defends PWCC. He is on the payroll and it is obvious.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

You mean the game where each of us gets to set our own rules of how to play, and can then change those rules, or change the game being played entirely, based on what we decide is in our own, or our clients, or our shareholders, or [insert interested/related party name here] self-interest?

I'm not trying to be malicious or attacking, please don't read it that way. I'm smiling while I type. But, that was kind of a throw away line.

And, one other thing. I guess if we don't like it, we can just do what Joe O says and basically "take our ball home". Don't Get Cheated - Yep, now that line was PERFECT!

[CuriousGeorge]

I will take that in the spirit in which it was given and I do appreciate that, but my point is really that in any industry there will always be people trying to game the system if given the opportunity. So for me the question is why were the Brent’s and Moser’s and apparently many others allowed to get away with this for so long when they never should have been able to if TPG’s of the world were doing their jobs even remotely correctly? To me as much as I may dislike what Brent and the rest have done, it is the PSA’s and the like perhaps who are the far bigger problem. It’s cute that Orlando and Sloan are laughing now, but as they say, he who laughs last, laughs best.

Originally Posted by bounce

You mean the game where each of us gets to set our own rules of how to play, and can then change those rules, or change the game being played entirely, based on what we decide is in our own, or our clients, or our shareholders, or [insert interested/related party name here] self-interest?

I'm not trying to be malicious or attacking, please don't read it that way. I'm smiling while I type. But, that was kind of a throw away line.

And, one other thing. I guess if we don't like it, we can just do what Joe O says and basically "take our ball home". Don't Get Cheated - Yep, now that line was PERFECT!

[Johnny630]

If PSA doesn’t take some accountability/responsibility In this the industry will never been the same....Well it will continue to be the same just more corrupt.....Agree on one point, industry is loaded with crumb bums