Your thoughts on catalogues for Vintage Card auctions

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Posted By: leon

I know I get a ton of catalogues in the mail and I do usually look at them. Are they still necessary though in this day of the internet? I look on line far more than I look at catalogues. Also, in auctions are call backs still necessary with the way the bidding is done nowadays? best regards

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Posted By: JimCrandell

I look at every catalog I get which are all of the auction houses except recently Mastronet. I have never looked online at auctions. When I bid I call in.

Have never used call back feature either--have believed that because these guys who run the auction houses are honest guys it was okay to leave "top all" bids.

Jim

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Posted By: chris bland

If you are looking to start your own auction house, you might want to use both catalogs and the internet to start out with, to ensure maximum visibility...

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Posted By: Rich Klein

AND if you ever lose internet connection, or it becomes hard to reference on-line after an auction is concluded, you can always refer back to them to make your own records.

And Leon, if you are eliminating catalogs from your collection, I'd be happy to pick up any and all for my collection that I might need -- we can talk about that at lunch today --

Regards
Rich

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Posted By: Matt

Understanding the expense that goes into paginating, publishing and shipping an auction I would venture many of us would have little issue with the auction house doing away with the catalog, if those savings were passed on to us/the consignor in the form of a significantly lower buyer's premium.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Yikes--no catalogs--for those of us that travel non-stop they are essential. I can spend a whole 3-hour plane trip looking at a catalog. How about getting rid of listing them on the internet and go back to phone-only auctions.

Interesting to hear that people collect catalogs. I throw miost of mine away.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Here's how the catalog helps them in more ways than one. My brother was flipping through one of my Mastro catalogs last year and saw an auction for a couple of old gas powered cars (Tether cars) so he signed up for the auction bid on them and won. He never would have even known about the auction if he hadn't been flipping through my catalog.

I keep all my catalogs neatly ordered by year and company on a bookshelf. I have probably 200+ auction catalogs and they make for a great reference and research tool...beyond all the flowery writing there is a lot of history in those books.

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Posted By: Matt

Dan & Jim - I don't think anyone is suggesting the catalogs are worthless; the question is are they still worth enough to justify the incredible cost it takes to produce them. I would suggest that in the age of the internet they are not.

If you could have a 10% BP, I think you could find something else to read on the plane.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I'm guessing my brother isn't the first person to sign up for Mastro auctions after having seen a catalog. That IMO makes it reasonable for the auction companies to continue producing catalogs. I guarantee you if they stop producing them and only rely on the online avenue they will not pass the savings on to the bidders.

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Posted By: Matt

Dan: "I guarantee you if they stop producing them and only rely on the online avenue they will not pass the savings on to the bidders."

If that's the case then of course they should keep them - why wouldn't I want them to produce a catalog if it isn't costing me anything? To save the rain forest?

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Posted By: DJ

I'm with Jim on this one. I don't ever go directly to online auctions without referring to the catalogs itself first. At least for me, catalogs are essential and I probably spend at least an hour flipping through per. I understand that it's a large suspense, but it makes the decision process a lot easier for me and allows me to write in each one what I want (I'm at times a bottom fedder) to pay and at the end, attech the prices realized list to it. I also collect them. I have about 400 of them.

DJ

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Okay....I thought the premise was that they stop producing and pass on the savings to us. That'll happen about the time gasoline goes back to $1.50/gallon, and OJ finds the real killer(s) of his ex-wife and Ron Goldman.

Not to mention the big auction houses have got some kind of pissing match going on about the circulation numbers of the catalogs which helps them attract consignors.

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Posted By: Matt

Dan - that was my premise. I don't see this as being an actual question worth discussing if it doesn't save me anything if they stop making the catalogs. However, if the savings would be passed on, then I think it is a great topic for debate.

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

"Are they still necessary though in this day of the internet?"

To me they are. I can go through them A LOT faster than on the internet.


"Also, in auctions are call backs still necessary with the way the bidding is done nowadays?"

Yes. If I'm not comfortable leaving a max bid (or even if I'm comfortable doing it but want to KNOW I've been topped before deciding not to raise my bid) and want to go to sleep before the auction ends, I can knowing that if I'm topped I'll be called.

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Posted By: Joe D.

The catalogs offer a value added. They are more of an investment than an expense.

I guarantee there would be more bids in an auction that prints a catalog / than there would be if the same auction did not have a catalog. More bids = more revenue.


The internet is wonderful for finding the stuff you already want. It is also very good at allowing you to ignore everything else.

The catalogs are very good at showing you everything - including the things you never knew you wanted.
The catalogs are very good at creating increased interest in all items.
The catalogs are always on - much more portable and transferrable.

When auction houses set up at a show... should they hand out links to their auction website?
or a catalog



If auction houses stopped printing catalogs - that action would do three things:
- - directly decrease bidding.
- - eliminate an effective 'future-consignment' sales tool
- - make the auction house more like eBay.


With Leon's question in mind - I find it ironic - that we all collect printed items (cards). Heck, maybe we should all start collecting scans instead?

(yes I am a printer)



edited: spelling - probably missed a bunch more.

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Posted By: Phil Garry

I prefer the catalogues over the internet descriptions on all large auctions (over 100 lots) because the catalogue is much easier on the eyes than looking at the computer for hours.

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Posted By: Wesley

When I only search using auction websites, I inevitably miss items that I am interested in so I always flip through the auction catalogs. To ensure maximum visability, auctionhouses do need catalogs and a large circulation list. Otherwise, what differentiates an internet auction from ebay aside from higher buyer premiums and less participants?

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Posted By: Matt

Wes - reputation and quality of items.

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Posted By: Alan

I LOVE the auction catalogs. The bigger, the better !!! Since I can't afford the stuff in the catalog, at least I can have the catalog !!!

What separates the auction houses apart from ebay is, among other things, is the beautiful color catalog. The quality of the catalog is a critical point. You'd be suprised how many bidders that I know of that don't bother with the auction houses' websites, but will bid by phone or fax from going thru the catalogs.

I have always thought that the large auction catalogs should have some kind of index, either at the front or the back of the catalog. Many of us save the catalogs for research purposes. Trying to locate an item without remembering which auction catalog it was in is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

At shows, I just love when the staff (of the auction houses) are handing out their catalogs at their booths

Alan

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Posted By: Cat

I normally just look at the website and then call Wes to see what I missed.

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Posted By: barry arnold

Leon, I absolute love the catalogs.
The internet is a very,very distant 2nd.

best,

barry

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Posted By: Mark Steinberg

Not much left to add, but really agree with Jim (for those of us who travel...) Those 3 hour flights are much more enjoyable with a Catalogue to keep me company.

Also agree with Corey, that I can flip through the Catalogue much faster than double-clicking a thousand times, to earmark what I might bid on.

The classic case is with Hunts (where multiple lots are NOT pictured on a single-page) To view each lot individually online would take a few hours. But to flip through the book (and identify what you might pursue) only takes a matter of minutes.

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Posted By: JimB

I think print catalogs are a must. I find what I am interested in with the print catalogs. I don't want to spend hours in front of the computer searching through hundreds or thousands of lots. All the decent auction houses have print catalogs for a reason.
JimB

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Posted By: Matt

"All the decent auction houses have print catalogs for a reason."

The reason is because that's how they've been doing it from before the internet was around.

You could have said the same thing about being able to phone in bids on auctions - all the major auction houses allowed it. Now, some are experimenting with internet only auctions.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Matt,

Internet only? Really?

Which ones?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

The only "Internet Only" auction without a catalog that I can think of is Leland's. At least I don't think they have catalogs for those auctions.

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Posted By: Matt

JimC - Mastro's current offering is "internet only" in the sense that they are not accepting bids any other way (they even wrote "internet only" on the catalog they sent out ). If you read the post I was responding to, it will make sense in context.

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Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

Looks like I'm in the minority here. I am pretty much internet only and then I might look at the printed catalog if I even have one. The last five auctions I bid on I did all research by internet, heck I didnt even know a couple had catalogs.

All my bids have been done on the internet (I have only been bidding for the last 3 years) and I have yet to make a phone bid much less a phone call back.

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Posted By: JK

Hunt Auctions - worst website in the business. Their catalog is essential.

Whoever suggested that the auction houses put an index in the catalogs - great idea.

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

All I know is they are great reading when your on the throne.
I can stay in there for hours with one.

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Posted By: leon

Me too butt (sic) my doctor says that causes hemorrhoids. Great opinions so far.....thanks and keep them coming....

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Posted By: MVSNYC

there is something very romantic & dramatic about flipping thru a major Mastro's or REA auction catalog...pieces that command full pages, or a full spread, with a gate-fold, etc...are very compelling, and make the items seem special. that is NOT captured on the internet, especially since all of the second & third tier auction houses use the identical interface/navigation these days, the only thing that distinguishes them from one to the other is the logo at the top of the website...

i remember back in the day, late 80's/early 90's, when Leland's put together the finest catalogs with very well photographed items, made them seem larger than life, and very special...

one of the best catalogs (which were tuff to get) was from Mastro's live auction last summer, it IS a book, great lay-out and exteremely dramatic photography...

and as Jim pointed-out, for those of us who travel a lot, there is nothing like flipping thru a brand-new auction catalog on a plane...and envision holding that special piece of cardboard or memorablia in your hand.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I killed a whole flight to Tokyo last spring going through Mastro and REA, but I had to haul them back at the end.

For a top-flight auction, a printed catalogue is a must but for an auction that only has reasonably common items with no elaborate write ups, it could probably be done without. Without an associated catalogue, however, the internet-only web site should have a print feature that can print a handy summary of the lots and a few pictures for the busy travellers among us.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

between a catalog and a BP of 20% or no catalog and a reduced BP, I'd eschew the catalog. Otherwise, why would I want to benefit the auction house financially?

At this point, in this market, I think a major player needs something in writing.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Mark

The latest SCP/Sothebys Auction was "Internet only" bidding as well (although there was still a nice Catalogue). I bet we see some of the lower and mid-tier auctions eventually abanding their catalogs.

Would absolutely hate to see this happen with the REAs, Mastro's, Leland's and Hunt's of the world. It was quite a thrill to see a few of my consigned Pennants featured on the front cover of the Mastro Catalogue a few years back.

It's always a special day when those arrive on the front doorstep. Everything else comes to an abrupt halt, all incoming calls go to voice-mail, and I tell the kids to "scram" for at least an hour!

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Posted By: Ricky Y

I still enjoy the catalogues. Especially the ones from REA..they are like history books for me. It allows me to look at them more carefully at my own leisure while contemplating whether to bid or not....its hard to do that while you're looking at it on PC.

Ricky Y

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Posted By: Joann

I think everyone is right.

Def need catalogs for all of the eloquent reasons mentioned. You can see the whole scope and breadth of an auction, and quickly take in items you would never even know existed - even non-sports. There is no way you can cover it so fast via internet - too much endless clicking and loading. There is just something elegant about having it all right there.

You can also get people to flip through the catalog that would never, ever do so on the net. It's mezmerizing to anyone that has it in his hands.

And it is ultimately portable.

OTOH, I think the 'net helps too. You can browse a catalog for eye-catchers, but if you want to find Detroit items or E93's or female player items you have to lay eyes on each lot and sometimes even read the description. Internet search function = bingo.

The 'net portion is also better b/c the My Bid and Track Lot functions are by far - by far! - the easiest and most efficient way to see a lot of targeting interest info in one place. You can easily track things you are marginally interested in just by clicking on the track tab.

So in my opinion, the best houses would have both. And they do. An eye pleasing catalog that favors casual browsing and the ability to spread a wider word. The 'net to target in on areas of specific interest once they have a person's attention.

J

(Must be something about airport bars that draws me to Net54. Orlando this time. Here since Sunday, and in New Orleans for two days before that. NO is a neat town. Not many places you can order a $27 cow diaphram in a restaurant. lol. It was pretty good.)

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Posted By: robert a

They come in handy when one's researching a set.

Rob

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Posted By: JimB

"Hunt Auctions - worst website in the business. Their catalog is essential."

I can't say how many times I missed things in their auction because of their website. I also had the hardest time getting their catalog, but I got the last one.
JimB

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

I like a good catalog. I keep most of them. Anything that gets me AWAY from my computer is a plus.

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Totally anecdotal: For years I receieved Leland's auctions and sometimes placed bids in their auctions. Presumably not enough, though, because I stopped receiving their catalogs. I've not placed a bid in any of their auctions since I stopped receiving their catalogs, simply because their auctions ceased to be "top of mind" to me. The catalogs accomplished that. I know Leland's has their auctions online, and I see the reminders on this board, but not being able to sit down and browse through their offerings at my leisure -- away from a computer -- obviously has impacted me as a customer.

Sidebar: Anyone who thinks that consignment fees and buyer's penalties would be lowered if the catalogs were done away with is living in a dream world.

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Posted By: MikeU

Personally, I love the catalogues. Look through them and decide what to go after and then go directly to the website and bid. I absolutely hate weeding through a website without a catalogue, particularly Hunt Auctions.