say it ain't so joe...

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Posted By: MVSNYC

i wanted to get some opinions here...i have a 1919 WS game 1 ticket stub, and it got me thinking, what might be the approximate number of specimens in existence? paid attendance for the game was 30,511...how many were thrown away, ripped-up, lost, etc?...

i know that scot reader, ted, and brian w. have often contemplated and given estimates for T206's in existence...how about we give it a try for WS tix stubs, could be fun.

regards,
michael


p.s. the most mezmorizing (sp?) artifact i saw yesterday at the HOF was shoeless joe's 1919 home jersey...i must have stood in front of it for 20 minutes, just envisioning joe floating thru the outfield in it...wow! i read that it came originally from the halper collection.

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Posted By: John S

Scrapbooking and memento saving were popular during this era. But with that said probably 20,000 of those tickets never left the ballpark that day. 95% of the remaining tickets probably were lost or disposed of...my guess, 250 or so remaing.

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Posted By: Lee

Since people didn't know the significance of the game until much later, then I'd say a lot of tickets were thrown away Vs. if this was a known significant game (Such as Mantle's 500th HR) as the event happened. I'd estimate 0.5% or less, maybe a hundred and a half tickets at the very most left in existance.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Not everybody gets to go to a WS game. And the opening game infers to me a higher level of interest than most other games. So, I'd say that a few percent were held onto as momentos.

But that was almost 100 years ago. And with the top drawer in a dresser being cleaned out at least every 30 years, that would be 3+ cleanings by different generations of people. And figuring that those typically in charge of cleaning duties are not commonly also sports fans, the attrition factor for even a meaningful stub is high because meaningful is in the eye of the beholder.

So, that works out to be 30,511 attendees x 3% tickets saved x 3 cleanings each presenting a 5% survival liklihood = your stub does not exist. (0.1 stubs exist)

So I guess that the cleaners were less efficient than I thought, or one heard of the Blacksox.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I would guess that there are probably 500-1000 still in existence. The game was in Cincinnati and since they won the ticket might have been saved by more people. I would guess that many still reside in family scrapbooks with the owners having little knowledge of it's $$$ value.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

joe's 1919 home jersey, joe's glove & ray schalk's cap from the HOF...

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Posted By: Brett

Heres some more :

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Posted By: MVSNYC

cool...where does the Cleveland jersey reside?

the Sox jersey is the identical one now in the HOF

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Posted By: boxingcardman

The attendee in 1919 may have retained a keepsake, but his kid probably saw an old dusty scrapbook as junk and threw it out. I keep a ticket stub from the 1976 series and wouldn't sell it because every time I see it I recall going to the game with my father; after I'm dead I expect my kid will sell it just like the rest of my memorabilia and cards. It doesn't have any emotional resonance to her. 40-50 years ago, when the stuff was worthless, I'm sure the kids just junked the items.

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Posted By: Clint

In 1913 Kansas had an exhibition game between the White Sox and Giants as part of the World Tour. This was like a World Series Game for Kansas as players from other teams were allowed to play. Christy Mathewson, Buck Weaver, Jim Thorpe, Hal Chase and Sam Crawford were there. The paid attendance was listed as 2026 and so far only 4 tickets are known.

So basing my guess on this I would say that between 400-600 tickets for game one exist.

On a side note if Joe Jackson isn't allowed in the Hall of Fame why do they allow his uniform, bat and etcetera to be displayed.

-Clint

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Posted By: MVSNYC

clint- interesting question regarding joe's stuff in the Hall...

i guess they realize he is a huge draw, and was a very important figure in the game...

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

They have all kinds of stuff at Cooperstown that belonged to Pete Rose, Hal Chase and others who are banned from baseball. They just can't be enshrined if they have been banned. They are still a part of the history of the game and keeping the history of the game is the mission of the hall's museum.