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  #51  
Old 03-11-2019, 08:07 PM
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clydepepper clydepepper is offline
Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
When I was 9 years old, I obtained Harmon Killebrew's autograph in person during spring training. Harmon was a 20 year old bonus baby at the time.

I bet he wondered why a nine year old punk wanted his autograph.

The nine year old punk had similar thoughts about if this 20 year old was a legit major leaguer.

His autograph was quite nice though and worth keeping. Still have it


That's great, Frank. The only thing I've kept that long is a mole.

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  #52  
Old 03-13-2019, 07:41 AM
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Jeff Lowe
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Default Can’t believe no one said :

Mike Schmidt , my late and great friend Bob Brown wrote about it extensively.
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  #53  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:50 PM
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Jason Simonds
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
Almost nothing about the public perception of Cobb is true. He did beat up a guy without fingers, but his entire team supported him doing so. They even refused to play a game after he was suspended and fined for doing it.

Many of Ron Artest’s teammates defended him. Not sure it makes the situation any better.

Many of the stories about Cobb are true, but some of the facts are questioned. “Yes, Cobb assaulted a bell boy, but not because he was black (as if that’s important).” “Yes, Cobb beat the crap out of a cripple, but he was missing seven fingers, not both hands (as if that makes the situation less appalling).”

Ty Cobb was a prick. A ‘troubled beauty’ sure, but also a prick. He was responsible for some of the game’s ugliest moments.
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  #54  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:54 PM
packs packs is offline
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Many of Ron Artest’s teammates defended him. Not sure it makes the situation any better.

Many of the stories about Cobb are true, but some of the facts are questioned. “Yes, Cobb assaulted a bell boy, but not because he was black (as if that’s important).” “Yes, Cobb beat the crap out of a cripple, but he was missing seven fingers, not both hands (as if that makes the situation less appalling).”

Ty Cobb was a prick. A ‘troubled beauty’ sure, but also a prick. He was responsible for some of the game’s ugliest moments.
If you're citing events in Al Stump's book none of them hold any water. What are your sources for these moments?
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  #55  
Old 03-13-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
If you're citing events in Al Stump's book none of them hold any water. What are your sources for these moments?


Leerhsen's book, A Terrible Beauty. He puts in so much effort to dispel the notion that Cobb is racist and that Stump’s book exaggerated that he doesn’t realize he still paints a fairly aweful picture.

Last edited by jhs5120; 03-13-2019 at 01:16 PM.
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  #56  
Old 03-13-2019, 02:05 PM
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None of these discussions make any sense except in light of a supernatural belief in contracausal free will. Just sayin'.
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  #57  
Old 03-13-2019, 02:30 PM
BruceinGa BruceinGa is offline
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Another vote for Reggie Jackson!
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  #58  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:25 PM
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Default Great story and comment, Doug-

People are complicated-

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Originally Posted by doug.goodman View Post
My Frank Robinson story is the opposite :

In late 1981 or 1982, I was standing (hunched over my treasure, really) in the rain outside the players parking lot at Candlestick after a rained out Giants game when he drove past me, then stopped and backed up.

He rolled down his window and asked "What are you doing standing there?"

"I was hoping I could get you to sign this baseball" I told him, as I reached it into his car to avoid the wet, and pointed out that it already had Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and a few other HR hitters of note.

"This is a nice ball", he said "what if I just drive away with it?" he chuckled.

"Please don't" I said, as the rain came down a bit harder.

He smiled as he found a good spot on the ball, signed a beautiful signature, carefully handed it back to me avoiding the rain, and said "thank you, now get out of the rain".

"Thank you!", I said and headed to my car to make the 93 mile drive home.

****

I now work for famous people for a living, and I see both sides of it on a daily basis, both of my current bosses have reputations that may have earned them mention in this thread had they been baseball players.

Both are unquestionably HOF caliber in their chosen professions.

Both are among the nicest people I know, although after a combined 17 years working for them, I might have a few "horror" stories, also.

My point is, for every horror story, there is often a story with the opposite point, but frequently it's the horror stories that circulate the most.

Doug
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  #59  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:26 PM
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Todd Schultz
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Default Bigger Jerks Than Joey Belle in the Hall of Fame

sorry I'm late to the thread, but I always thought Albert Belle was a bigger jerk than Joey Belle.
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  #60  
Old 03-13-2019, 07:08 PM
Paul S Paul S is offline
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What we need is a sabremetric that compares jerks across eras.
(leaving it open-ended here - write your own below
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  #61  
Old 03-15-2019, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhs5120 View Post
Leerhsen's book, A Terrible Beauty. He puts in so much effort to dispel the notion that Cobb is racist and that Stump’s book exaggerated that he doesn’t realize he still paints a fairly aweful picture.
He also claims that Cobb once got a home run on a bunt. He's not exactly credible.


Tim Hornbaker is the guy to read re:Cobb
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  #62  
Old 03-15-2019, 01:21 AM
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Maybe he changed as he got old, but just read or listen to Glory of Their Times and you'll know that Cobb had a bad character/personality reputation with his contemporaries.
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  #63  
Old 03-15-2019, 08:12 AM
packs packs is offline
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In terms of Cobb's myth vs reality, it only takes a little bit of research to see for yourself that he was in no way the racist hate monger he's made out to be. For one, his great grandfather preached against slavery in the Confederate South during the Confederacy, second, his father was an advocate for the education of African Americans and other under-served communities and Cobb himself would go on to establish a fund for that very purpose, which still exists today. Lastly, here's a contemporary quote from Cobb in 1952, well before the Civil Rights era:

"The Negro should be accepted wholeheartedly, and not grudgingly," he said. "The Negro has the right to play professional baseball and whose [sic] to say he has not?"

Last edited by packs; 03-15-2019 at 08:17 AM.
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  #64  
Old 03-15-2019, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
In terms of Cobb's myth vs reality, it only takes a little bit of research to see for yourself that he was in no way the racist hate monger he's made out to be. For one, his great grandfather preached against slavery in the Confederate South during the Confederacy, second, his father was an advocate for the education of African Americans and other under-served communities and Cobb himself would go on to establish a fund for that very purpose, which still exists today. Lastly, here's a contemporary quote from Cobb in 1952, well before the Civil Rights era:

"The Negro should be accepted wholeheartedly, and not grudgingly," he said. "The Negro has the right to play professional baseball and whose [sic] to say he has not?"
Also I have read that there is no evidence that the bellhop he beat up -- a key piece of the racist claim -- was black.
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  #65  
Old 03-15-2019, 10:10 AM
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Years ago I visited Royston, GA and met an old doctor there who was a close personal friend of Cobb in the forties and fifties. He only spoke highly of him and his contributions to the community, Cobb’s hometown.

He was the driver of the regional Cobb Health system, which included the hospital in Royston. The medical services available to all in the Cobb system were a legacy that he and the community cherished.

He supported the youth baseball in the community as well.

He profited from Coca Cola, but didn’t run away from Royston with his wealth.
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  #66  
Old 03-19-2019, 03:25 PM
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There are certainly lots of different type stories about Cobb. Much of what has been taken for granted over the years doesn't jive with some first hand accounts. People are complicated. (Tim N said that ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
Years ago I visited Royston, GA and met an old doctor there who was a close personal friend of Cobb in the forties and fifties. He only spoke highly of him and his contributions to the community, Cobb’s hometown.

He was the driver of the regional Cobb Health system, which included the hospital in Royston. The medical services available to all in the Cobb system were a legacy that he and the community cherished.

He supported the youth baseball in the community as well.

He profited from Coca Cola, but didn’t run away from Royston with his wealth.
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  #67  
Old 03-20-2019, 03:13 AM
Mark17 Mark17 is offline
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Maybe he changed as he got old, but just read or listen to Glory of Their Times and you'll know that Cobb had a bad character/personality reputation with his contemporaries.
According to some. But others said Cobb never spiked anyone intentionally unless they were blocking his path to the base, which Joe Wood, in defense of Cobb, said was just common sense.

Cobb did a lot of good things for people, that is not in dispute. As far as his sins, I have always believed Cobb deserves some slack, given his circumstance (his mother killing his father in what some said was murder.) Overall I think the good in Cobb outweighs the bad.
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  #68  
Old 03-20-2019, 07:28 AM
Hot Springs Bathers Hot Springs Bathers is offline
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There is a ton of revisionist history surrounding Cobb, As a historian you have to weigh first-hand accounts ahead of theory. Cobb was a very complicated person and not a real good person. The people that want to cleanse the image get very passionate about it but the first-hand accounts are not pleasant.
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  #69  
Old 03-20-2019, 08:19 AM
packs packs is offline
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Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers View Post
There is a ton of revisionist history surrounding Cobb, As a historian you have to weigh first-hand accounts ahead of theory. Cobb was a very complicated person and not a real good person. The people that want to cleanse the image get very passionate about it but the first-hand accounts are not pleasant.
While first hand accounts are important, historians are also aware of bias. Sam Crawford hated Cobb, so can his stories about the man be taken at face value? How do you talk about people you don't like?

Side note, when Cobb died they found copies of a ton of letters he'd written to people lobbying for Crawford's induction into the HOF.
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  #70  
Old 03-20-2019, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
Years ago I visited Royston, GA and met an old doctor there who was a close personal friend of Cobb in the forties and fifties. He only spoke highly of him and his contributions to the community, Cobb’s hometown.

He was the driver of the regional Cobb Health system, which included the hospital in Royston. The medical services available to all in the Cobb system were a legacy that he and the community cherished.

He supported the youth baseball in the community as well.

He profited from Coca Cola, but didn’t run away from Royston with his wealth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
There are certainly lots of different type stories about Cobb. Much of what has been taken for granted over the years doesn't jive with some first hand accounts. People are complicated. (Tim N said that ).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark17 View Post
According to some. But others said Cobb never spiked anyone intentionally unless they were blocking his path to the base, which Joe Wood, in defense of Cobb, said was just common sense.

Cobb did a lot of good things for people, that is not in dispute. As far as his sins, I have always believed Cobb deserves some slack, given his circumstance (his mother killing his father in what some said was murder.) Overall I think the good in Cobb outweighs the bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers View Post
There is a ton of revisionist history surrounding Cobb, As a historian you have to weigh first-hand accounts ahead of theory. Cobb was a very complicated person and not a real good person. The people that want to cleanse the image get very passionate about it but the first-hand accounts are not pleasant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
While first hand accounts are important, historians are also aware of bias. Sam Crawford hated Cobb, so can his stories about the man be taken at face value? How do you talk about people you don't like?

Side note, when Cobb died they found copies of a ton of letters he'd written to people lobbying for Crawford's induction into the HOF.


Interestingly I also met Al Stump and was less than impressed. Competitive ballplayers who consider base running a contact sport at any base stretch the rules perhaps and are considered "dirty" by some (Hello Manny (Machado)), but behavior inside the lines does not necessarily relate to their character outside the lines.

Albert "Joey" Belle gets votes in these threads for the hall for his career inside the lines, as does Pete Rose and the like. Where to draw the line for character outside the lines is the real question.

Few would suggest that Ty Cobb should be removed from the Hall of Fame. After all, where is the Belle Health System? Is there a Belle Hospital and Medical Center in Shreveport, Louisiana? I don't know. I only drove through Shreveport once without stopping in 1972 long before little Albert was conceived.
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  #71  
Old 03-20-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
I only drove through Shreveport once without stopping in 1972 long before little Albert was conceived.
Oddly, he turned 6 that year.
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  #72  
Old 03-20-2019, 09:44 AM
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Oddly, he turned 6 that year.
Ooops, I guess I didn't drive by his elementary school in 1972.
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Last edited by frankbmd; 03-20-2019 at 09:45 AM.
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  #73  
Old 03-20-2019, 10:45 AM
Huysmans Huysmans is offline
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Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers View Post
There is a ton of revisionist history surrounding Cobb, As a historian you have to weigh first-hand accounts ahead of theory. Cobb was a very complicated person and not a real good person. The people that want to cleanse the image get very passionate about it but the first-hand accounts are not pleasant.
In modern, social media driven society, when it comes to judging people of the past, sanctimony is the order of the day. The irony is that people who claim to be "good", seem to go out of their way to try and find - and even publicize - only the bad in others, regardless of how truthful it is.
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