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  #101  
Old 03-07-2019, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
For a player with a short career to go in the hall it has to be spectacular. Sandy has 3 cy and an mvp to go with 3 ws rings. Joey has no MVP awards. No World Series. He was caught using a corked bat. He was a huge slugger and had a very nice career. I would agree that he should be strongly considered for the HOF. But I think Maris, Mattingly and Murphy belong first. They were all the best players in baseball at one point in their careers. Belle was not.
His surly disposition undoubtedly cost him MVP votes. The guy finished EIGHTH one year while hitting .328 with 49 homers and 152 RBI. Led the league in slugging, OPS, OPS+ and total bases. EIGHTH. Finished 2nd behind Mo Vaughn in 1995 despite: higher batting average (.317 vs .300), more homers (50 vs 39), same RBI (126), higher OBP (.401 vs .388), higher slugging (.690 vs .575), higher OPS (1.091 vs .963), higher WAR (7.0 vs 4.3).

Belle played 10 full seasons and parts of two more. AVERAGED 40 homers every 162 games. OPS+ of 144. Those are ridiculous, high-level, elite numbers.

Nope, he didn't win an MVP or World Series. But he outperformed guys who did.
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  #102  
Old 03-07-2019, 06:46 PM
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Even mentioning how many WS someone played in as a factor in their Hall-worthiness is absurd. How many did Ernie Banks play in? Stan Musial? Ted Williams for God's sake? On the other side of the ledger there are double digit mediocre guys on the 20s through 50s Yankees who probably played in 5+.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-07-2019 at 06:47 PM.
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  #103  
Old 03-07-2019, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Even mentioning how many WS someone played in as a factor in their Hall-worthiness is absurd. How many did Ernie Banks play in? Stan Musial? Ted Williams for God's sake? On the other side of the ledger there are double digit mediocre guys on the 20s through 50s Yankees who probably played in 5+.
Charlie Silvera was in six, won five, and spent all but one inning of it on the bench.
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  #104  
Old 03-07-2019, 10:27 PM
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It’s not absurd. It’s part of the player’s accomplishments and in some cases may make a difference. For example, when Curt Schilling eventually gets inducted it will be largely because of his 3 ws rings.

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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Even mentioning how many WS someone played in as a factor in their Hall-worthiness is absurd. How many did Ernie Banks play in? Stan Musial? Ted Williams for God's sake? On the other side of the ledger there are double digit mediocre guys on the 20s through 50s Yankees who probably played in 5+.
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  #105  
Old 03-08-2019, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
It’s not absurd. It’s part of the player’s accomplishments and in some cases may make a difference. For example, when Curt Schilling eventually gets inducted it will be largely because of his 3 ws rings.
Maris hit .217 in the WS even with his stellar 1967 performance. He was well under .200 for NY. I agree if you play particularly well, it helps, but not just being on a winning team. Schilling was 11-2 2.23 postseason. Yes, that will help him, but it's the performance, not the rings.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-08-2019 at 07:27 AM.
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  #106  
Old 03-08-2019, 07:33 AM
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It appears “players who fell off a cliff” has turned into a HOF debate.
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  #107  
Old 03-08-2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ooo-ribay View Post
It appears “players who fell off a cliff” has turned into a HOF debate.
True. Created a separate poll just now.
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  #108  
Old 03-10-2019, 12:04 PM
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I think people are overlooking Johnny Vander Meer. He only had 2 no hitters in a row. Seems pretty easy to do. Maintaining that couldn't have been that hard.
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  #109  
Old 03-10-2019, 10:32 PM
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Though these pitchers did not by any means fall off a cliff per se, this trio of twirlers reached some amazing heights, then never came close afterwards:

Big Ed Walsh (Chicago White Sox)

Smoky Joe Wood (Boston Red Sox)

Colby Jack Coombs (Philadelphia Athletics)

One made the Hall, but all three of the above were outstanding for a time. As with the case for Roger Maris, as someone else astutely observed, it's the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of Super Stats.

I really don't care anymore if Roger Maris is enshrined; he was a great Yankee and player to me, and he's enshrined in my heart. I had to pay a lot of dough for my favorite Maris piece in the late 80s. I never regretted it one second. Guess I should say what it is---a 1962 JELL-O complete unfolded box in gem mint condition. A few years ago I was the winning bidder in a LOVE OF THE GAME auction for a scarce 1962 Gehl's Gold Mine Ice Cream Roger Maris, graded 6.5 by PSA. Paid almost twice what I paid for the Maris box, and love it.

Now, this has nothing to do with Rog's career falling off a cliff, but to underscore the fact that some of us love non-HOFers that mean something to us, and will treasure them more than most of the guys who are enshrined in Cooperstown.

Nice cardboard hot stove league discussion! --- Brian Powell
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  #110  
Old 03-11-2019, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egri View Post
Charlie Silvera was in six, won five, and spent all but one inning of it on the bench.


If he hadn't played one inning, his bench would be shrine-worthy.
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  #111  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:54 PM
dabigyankeeman dabigyankeeman is offline
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DONTRELLE WILLIS

Came up with Marlins and looked great. But:

First 4 years in baseball: 58-39 w/l record
Next 5 years in baseball: 14-30 w/l record

And he was gone.
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  #112  
Old 03-13-2019, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dabigyankeeman View Post
DONTRELLE WILLIS

Came up with Marlins and looked great. But:

First 4 years in baseball: 58-39 w/l record
Next 5 years in baseball: 14-30 w/l record

And he was gone.
Good bat too.
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  #113  
Old 03-13-2019, 04:34 PM
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Yankee fans will always remember the sting of Chien-Ming Wang too. What could have been.....
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  #114  
Old 03-13-2019, 05:02 PM
dabigyankeeman dabigyankeeman is offline
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Good bat too.
And a really neat personality, a good guy. This was a shame how he lost it and never got it back.
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  #115  
Old 03-13-2019, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dabigyankeeman View Post
And a really neat personality, a good guy. This was a shame how he lost it and never got it back.
Yep.
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