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  #51  
Old 08-24-2018, 11:32 PM
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Sorry we let you down Jesse. Apologies to you, the Mantle family and everyone else involved.
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  #52  
Old 08-25-2018, 12:39 AM
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I appreciate that Jeff but no apology is owed to me personally. One is owed to your consignor and anyone who bid on this lot. We should be able to count on a major auction house to at least review any piece that is included in an auction. That someone could have studied this piece enough to write an elaborate description and yet couldn't see that it was a fake leads us as customers to question the credibility of your entire operation. I may be the only one not drinking the kool aid but I am extremely disappointed that you guys couldn't tell this was a fake card.
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  #53  
Old 08-25-2018, 02:25 AM
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Sorry to lose you as a "customer," you'll be missed for sure.
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  #54  
Old 08-25-2018, 07:56 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by Bicem View Post
Sorry to lose you as a "customer," you'll be missed for sure.
man if thats how customers are treated in the hobby (afterall its not like the hobby is exploding with new buyers of thousand dollar cards that jessie buys) i feel sorry for how customers of non 1000 dollar cards are treated..

Jessie does make a point that there was time for an elaborate write-up but appears to be oversight on looking a very sought after card that is also subject to fraud. I get that everything was made right in the end but i dont think that type of comment serves anyone and is good for the hobby.....

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-25-2018 at 07:59 AM.
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  #55  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
man if thats how customers are treated in the hobby (afterall its not like the hobby is exploding with new buyers of thousand dollar cards that jessie buys) i feel sorry for how customers of non 1000 dollar cards are treated..

Jessie does make a point that there was time for an elaborate write-up but appears to be oversight on looking a very sought after card that is also subject to fraud. I get that everything was made right in the end but i dont think that type of comment serves anyone and is good for the hobby.....
I think at this point Jesses comments are just getting a bit old to them and Jeff is frustrated... the quotations on "customer" I assume may mean Jesse has never purchased anything through them... those that have such as myself are the ones defending them because they are a solid honest shop and when a mistake happens they do everything they can to take care of their customers.

LOTG has apologized on numerous accounts, the consignor accepted their apology, the winning bidder accepted their apology, but Jesse can't move on...I guess he will take this one to his grave. There is no time machine and the true character of an individual is shown in how they handle mistakes.

Goldin Auctions listed a 68 topps Bench as a Venezuela topps two months ago and only pulled it after people questioned it...in their description they called it one of the finest 68 Bench VZs in existence.... no one is perfect... move on...

Brian Longley

Last edited by BLongley; 08-25-2018 at 08:20 AM.
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  #56  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:26 AM
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I think at this point Jesses comments are just getting a bit old to them and Jeff is frustrated...

LOTG has apologized on numerous accounts, the consignor accepted their apology, the winning bidder accepted their apology, but Jesse can't move on...I guess he will take this one to his grave. There is no time machine and the true character of an individual is shown in how they handle mistakes.

no one is perfect... move on...

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  #57  
Old 08-25-2018, 09:01 AM
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Jesse has an affinity for the 52 Mantle and I think he's just stunned and dismayed that a terrible fake could get by a reputable and important AH. It's fair criticism IMO and people shouldn't take him to the woodshed for venting a bit. This too shall pass, as they say.
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  #58  
Old 08-25-2018, 09:12 AM
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Default Mantle

I agree with Peter. The criticism is fair in that you are putting some trust in the expertise of the auction house. If they are unable to catch a really bad fake, can you ever trust them to catch a well done one? That said, I don’t think anyone is suggesting it was done purposefully, so the message is you must do better than that to maintain the trust of the collectors and now we move on.
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  #59  
Old 08-25-2018, 09:19 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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I agree with Peter. The criticism is fair in that you are putting some trust in the expertise of the auction house. If they are unable to catch a really bad fake, can you ever trust them to catch a well done one? That said, I don’t think anyone is suggesting it was done purposefully, so the message is you must do better than that to maintain the trust of the collectors and now we move on.
i agree.... mistakes happen...but it makes it hard to give top bidding on a card when you know a AH has made mistakes before..even if they are likely to correct them later.

Not saying it has happened, but what if these mistakes occur again and again...even though no purposeful, we shall see. I agree everyone should move on including Jesse but if not learn from the past we are doomed to repeat it....i think that was the point...

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-25-2018 at 09:20 AM.
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  #60  
Old 08-25-2018, 09:51 AM
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Could someone post a list of the auction houses that have never made a mistake before so that I can only bid with them?
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  #61  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicem View Post
Sorry to lose you as a "customer," you'll be missed for sure.
And I'm sorry that an "auction house" can't identify such a terrible fake without having it pointed out to them by one of their customers. Yes we all make mistakes, but if you let this one in what else is getting by?
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  #62  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:28 AM
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Could someone post a list of the auction houses that have never made a mistake before so that I can only bid with them?
+1. I'd like to hear of these perfect AH's
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  #63  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by the-illini View Post
Could someone post a list of the auction houses that have never made a mistake before so that I can only bid with them?
I think there are mistakes and there are MISTAKES.

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-25-2018 at 10:56 AM.
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  #64  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by the-illini View Post
Could someone post a list of the auction houses that have never made a mistake before so that I can only bid with them?
Qantas.... this statement reminds me of Ray in the Rainman; needless to say, they drove cross country rather than taking a plane bc Qantas did not fly to/from wherever they were/going....

Bad mistake, no doubt. But they owned it and fixed it, and everyone immediately affected seems ok with result. Hopefully LOTG learns and grows from the experience and the proof will be in the pudding. If they lost some customers, then they lost customers. I just feel like this is beating a dead horse and would love to see a different thread atop the board (granted, I just bumped the thread with this reply).

Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 08-25-2018 at 11:04 AM.
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  #65  
Old 08-25-2018, 11:06 AM
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+1. I'd like to hear of these perfect AH's
http://www.perfecthorseauctions.com
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  #66  
Old 08-25-2018, 11:11 AM
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In all seriousness, we are very sorry for the mistake, and will definitely strive to be better going forward.
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  #67  
Old 08-25-2018, 11:45 AM
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Could someone post a list of the auction houses that have never made a mistake before so that I can only bid with them?
http://www.myccsa.com/

I don't think there are any "mistakes" being made there.

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  #68  
Old 08-25-2018, 11:55 AM
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  #69  
Old 08-25-2018, 01:50 PM
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Could someone post a list of the auction houses that have never made a mistake before so that I can only bid with them?
There is one, but they only allow bidders who have never made a mistake.
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  #70  
Old 08-25-2018, 03:29 PM
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So just how many apologies would make this ok to those that think this is akin to a felony?
Did they make a mistake? Yep. Sure did.
Did they own it? Yep. Sure did.
Why the continued onslaughts? Really? I can’t understand it.
The dead horse is very obviously already dead, but apparently it is necessary to continue to beat it.
Well done dead horse beaters!
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  #71  
Old 08-25-2018, 03:29 PM
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There is one, but they only allow bidders who have never made a mistake.
Haha. Just about right!
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  #72  
Old 08-25-2018, 07:14 PM
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Default Mantle was not the only fake

I do not post too often, but read a good amount on this site to learn as much as possible about the hobby.

First, I have never met or know Al; however, I have won some small items in the love of game auctions and had no issues with anything in the process. I was surprised to see Jeff's post, which I read as sarcasm, concerning losing Jesse as a customer. While I have never worked in an auction house, logic would lead one to believe that every bidder and bid is equally important; without under bidders, the final bid does not reach its amount.

As for the 1952 Mantle, I do not collect this card or set, but because of the popularity of the card, I, like most collectors, have seen it a great deal lately and this does appear to be a bad fake! Now, my opinion may be biased at this point because I know it is faked, but it does appear pretty bad when I compare it to real Mantles.

Finally, the point of my post. There was, at least one other bad fake offered for sale in the last LOTG auction. Lot# 192 - 1933 All Star Game program was a bad fake and had known indications of being a fake (item is still in the catalog, but was removed from the website so I cannot provide a link). When I saw the item on the website, I immediately contacted Al and explained to him that the item needed his attention because I believed it was a fake. To Al's credit, he looked into it, removed the item prior to any bids being placed. Al emailed me back and explained that a few other individuals had noticed it was a fake and contacted him - problem resolved. I guess the immediate action by Al should be applauded; however, that means numerous individuals noticed it was a fake, but no one at LOTG did.

I absolutely do not think Al or anyone at LOTG had any ill intent with the Mantle or the 1933 All Star program; however, I also don't think these items should be making it into an auction house catalog. Mistakes do happen. No one is perfect. But there were more than one bad item in this auction. While all bidders should always do their own due diligence, I think many assume that when bidding in an auction house and paying 20+% in fees, that the auction house has weeded out the obvious fakes.

So, I just didn't think it was right that Jesse (I also don't know Jesse) was getting ridiculed for being upset with the Mantle and wanted to point out it was not a lone incident in this auction. Not sure that will change anyone's mind or not, but might as well get all the facts out there.

From what I have gathered from this thread, it should be labeled kudos to Jobu! Without him reaching out to Al and suggesting he take a closer look at that card, Micah would have a $5000 piece of trash sitting on his desk and be none the wiser.

No one notices when you pay attention to details, but they certainly notice when you don't...

@ndy k3nn3dy
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  #73  
Old 08-25-2018, 07:43 PM
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I second the motion of “Kudos to Jobu”.
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  #74  
Old 08-25-2018, 07:55 PM
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From what I have gathered from this thread, it should be labeled kudos to Jobu! Without him reaching out to Al and suggesting he take a closer look at that card, Micah would have a $5000 piece of trash sitting on his desk and be none the wiser.
most accurate thought posted in this entire thread. excellent post that said a lot of things I have been thinking. Thank you!!
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  #75  
Old 08-25-2018, 07:59 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordecaibrown View Post
I do not post too often, but read a good amount on this site to learn as much as possible about the hobby.

First, I have never met or know Al; however, I have won some small items in the love of game auctions and had no issues with anything in the process. I was surprised to see Jeff's post, which I read as sarcasm, concerning losing Jesse as a customer. While I have never worked in an auction house, logic would lead one to believe that every bidder and bid is equally important; without under bidders, the final bid does not reach its amount.

As for the 1952 Mantle, I do not collect this card or set, but because of the popularity of the card, I, like most collectors, have seen it a great deal lately and this does appear to be a bad fake! Now, my opinion may be biased at this point because I know it is faked, but it does appear pretty bad when I compare it to real Mantles.

Finally, the point of my post. There was, at least one other bad fake offered for sale in the last LOTG auction. Lot# 192 - 1933 All Star Game program was a bad fake and had known indications of being a fake (item is still in the catalog, but was removed from the website so I cannot provide a link). When I saw the item on the website, I immediately contacted Al and explained to him that the item needed his attention because I believed it was a fake. To Al's credit, he looked into it, removed the item prior to any bids being placed. Al emailed me back and explained that a few other individuals had noticed it was a fake and contacted him - problem resolved. I guess the immediate action by Al should be applauded; however, that means numerous individuals noticed it was a fake, but no one at LOTG did.

I absolutely do not think Al or anyone at LOTG had any ill intent with the Mantle or the 1933 All Star program; however, I also don't think these items should be making it into an auction house catalog. Mistakes do happen. No one is perfect. But there were more than one bad item in this auction. While all bidders should always do their own due diligence, I think many assume that when bidding in an auction house and paying 20+% in fees, that the auction house has weeded out the obvious fakes.

So, I just didn't think it was right that Jesse (I also don't know Jesse) was getting ridiculed for being upset with the Mantle and wanted to point out it was not a lone incident in this auction. Not sure that will change anyone's mind or not, but might as well get all the facts out there.

From what I have gathered from this thread, it should be labeled kudos to Jobu! Without him reaching out to Al and suggesting he take a closer look at that card, Micah would have a $5000 piece of trash sitting on his desk and be none the wiser.

No one notices when you pay attention to details, but they certainly notice when you don't...

@ndy k3nn3dy

There are also other issues...some under bidders may of had more money freed up to bid on other consignor cards but were tied into the fake mantle , thus those other consignors lose out of getting max value on their items from those underbidders.... The point is the deal wasnt in a bubble... Jesse seemed concerned on how easily the card made its way to a reputable auction that took the time to write up on the card..

i also agree with you that someone that never wins an auction is still very much a customer as those legit underbids are very important..

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-25-2018 at 08:00 PM.
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  #76  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:21 PM
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i also agree with you that someone that never wins an auction is still very much a customer as those legit underbids are very important..
Thanks Jake I feel better about myself now.
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  #77  
Old 08-25-2018, 09:09 PM
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Something to consider: How many major companies, even when informed of fake or counterfeit items in their auctions and presented with strong evidence, refuse to remove said questionable lots?

I can think of several recent examples. And historically? Many more.
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  #78  
Old 08-25-2018, 09:23 PM
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Too soon?

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  #79  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:22 PM
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In an ideal world every auction house would be 100% accurate in their descriptions and scrupulously honest. However, we do not live in an ideal world. All major auction houses make mistakes. The sheer volume of lots per employee that are processed makes this inevitable. My guess is that going forward Al and Jeff will take this as a challenge to improve their description accuracy. One thing they don’t have to work on is their honesty. A lot of other auctions cannot make that claim.

Last edited by oldjudge; 08-25-2018 at 10:24 PM.
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  #80  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:52 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Something to consider: How many major companies, even when informed of fake or counterfeit items in their auctions and presented with strong evidence, refuse to remove said questionable lots?

I can think of several recent examples. And historically? Many more.
What examples do you speak of recently...(in 2017-2018)
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